ATC speakers / Monitors

[goat76]

In my case it is blood alcohol level not dynamic drive I'm afraid.

There is only one person in the world who thinks I can dance, and it is me when I am drunk.

And I am wrong.

Alcohol is always part of the equation, except I've seen those same people drinking alcohol many times before but never seen them move like that to the music. That live music and its dynamic was something else, a sober person in a wheelchair would have jumped up dancing to that highly dynamic and musical force, and no one could resist!

 

[witwald]

...because they are used in the professional field, therefore monitors in all respects, these can have audio characteristics that are not very pleasant for audiophiles looking for a more musical sound, but they can have fundamental sound characteristics for the professional in the recording studio.

Can you please elaborate a little on what makes (professional) monitors sound unpleasant to (non-professional) domestic listeners looking for a more musical sound? I am curious as to the monitor's fundamental sound characteristics for the professional in the recording studio that would differentiate them from domestically-aligned products.

 

[Avp1]

Can you please elaborate a little on what makes (professional) monitors sound unpleasant to (non-professional) domestic listeners looking for a more musical sound? I am curious as to the monitor's fundamental sound characteristics for the professional in the recording studio that would differentiate them from domestically-aligned products.

Monitors are supposed to show naked truth about the recording they play. Some even exacerbate deficiencies. Consumer oriented speakers are hiding deficiencies or enhancing music they play, like adding sound field depth which is not present in original recording, As a consumer, you will likely stop listening a lot of your formerly favorite music when you get studio grade speakers, simply because it will sound less pleasant than you are used to. But this can be a blessing - you may start hunting for well recorded music instead.

This is your choice: would you use ketchup with your meal.

 

[Jim Taylor]

. Consumer oriented speakers are hiding deficiencies or enhancing music they play, like adding sound field depth which is not present in original recording

Could you please tell me how that is done? Thank you.

Jim

 

[Avp1]

Could you please tell me how that is done? Thank you.

Jim

I am not exactly sure (that points to my statement above about limit in measurements), but I did experienced that: different sound field depth perception while listening of the same record through different high quality speakers. Less depth was felt when using professional monitors. I also experienced reduction of stage depth or width listening through other types of speakers in comparison with good monitors.

 

[Jim Taylor]

I am not exactly sure (that points to my statement above about limit in measurements), but I did experienced that: different sound field depth perception while listening of the same record through different high quality speakers. Less depth was felt when using professional monitors. I also experienced reduction of stage depth or width listening through other types of speakers in comparison with good monitors.

Thank you for your answer.

I have another question. How do you know which speaker (and which presentation) are more true to what is actually on the recording? Thank you.

Jim

 

[Ktacos]

All the monitors I've used for mixing also sound wonderful for just laid back listening, they are neutral after all. All the ones I've used that I felt were "unforgiving" or "revealing" were actually just speakers with response issues that highlighted certain parts of the spectrum. The only ATC 3 way I heard was passive and if it were my design, I would've padded the mid driver down a bit more, but I can see how it would give the impression of being more revealing.

 

[YSC]

I am not exactly sure (that points to my statement above about limit in measurements), but I did experienced that: different sound field depth perception while listening of the same record through different high quality speakers. Less depth was felt when using professional monitors. I also experienced reduction of stage depth or width listening through other types of speakers in comparison with good monitors.

Then how do the designer of good monitors achieve that neutrality? Or vice versa how do the hifi designers add those magic to hide the deficiencies in “bad recordings”? Designers started out by reading raw driver data and calculate cabinet size and shape then fine tune how they integrate, if measurements are incomplete how can they consistently add the same magic sauce in all their designs?

 

[Avp1]

Thank you for your answer.

I have another question. How do you know which speaker (and which presentation) are more true to what is actually on the recording? Thank you.

Jim

Generally I do not know that. Though I tend to trust well known professional monitors more. Other than that - it is statistical: if sound is similar through multiple good speakers, I assume this is what baked into recording and not added/altered by listening equipment or room.

 

[Avp1]

Then how do the designer of good monitors achieve that neutrality? Or vice versa how do the hifi designers add those magic to hide the deficiencies in “bad recordings”? Designers started out by reading raw driver data and calculate cabinet size and shape then fine tune how they integrate, if measurements are incomplete how can they consistently add the same magic sauce in all their designs?

This will be a question to experienced speaker designers: what is their secret sauce. You can start with Audio Note designers, how did they manage to make their speakers sound subjectively good, while they are obviously flawed based on measurement data.

 

[bachatero]

This will be a question to experienced speaker designers: what is their secret sauce.

DSP

 

[Jim Taylor]

You can start with Audio Note designers, how did they manage to make their speakers sound subjectively good, while they are obviously flawed based on measurement

Good and accurate are two different things. "Good" is preference, which is a personal opinion. "Accurate" is a scientific comparison to a standard. The two can overlap, but they can also be utterly devoid of commonality.

One of the things I'm trying to find out is whether more studio judgement is based on accuracy, or whether more studio judgement is based on preference. It's sort of an interesting subject, don't you think?

Jim

 

[Avp1]

One of the things I'm trying to find out is whether more studio judgement is based on accuracy, or whether more studio judgement is based on preference. It's sort of an interesting subject, don't you think?

Jim

Preference, of cause! Accuracy only helps easier achieve and then translate that preference.

 

[Amsz]

Perhaps it has to do with the speaker's resolution. I have ATC 50 ASLs, and one of the most striking differences I noticed was while listening to the Red Hot Chili Peppers' 'Blood Sugar Sex Magik.' The sound was incredibly raw and ultra-precise, highlighting every detail, which made it less forgiving of the recording's quality. In comparison, the LS50 Meta speakers I use for casual listening revealed fewer micro details, resulting in a smoother, different musical experience.

I don’t think it’s just a question of bandwidth or frequency response.

Is there a measurement out there for micro-detail resolution or transient response?

 

[richard12511]

Anyone have experience with the SCM110A? I'm gonna get to hear it this Sunday, and possibly even directly compare it to a high end B&W model.

 

[lowkeyoperations]

One of the things I'm trying to find out is whether more studio judgement is based on accuracy, or whether more studio judgement is based on preference. It's sort of an interesting subject, don't you think?

Jim

I’m not sure what your question really is.
What do you mean by “studio judgement”, “accuracy” and “preference” in the context of your question?

Are you asking, when a mix engineer set a compressor, what are they listening for?

 

[YSC]

Perhaps it has to do with the speaker's resolution. I have ATC 50 ASLs, and one of the most striking differences I noticed was while listening to the Red Hot Chili Peppers' 'Blood Sugar Sex Magik.' The sound was incredibly raw and ultra-precise, highlighting every detail, which made it less forgiving of the recording's quality. In comparison, the LS50 Meta speakers I use for casual listening revealed fewer micro details, resulting in a smoother, different musical experience.

I don’t think it’s just a question of bandwidth or frequency response.

Is there a measurement out there for micro-detail resolution or transient response?

Actually the effect of the bandwidth or frequence response is kind of easy to check on their effects, while you can't change the dispersion pattern, use some broadband PEQ could try out how those bands affect perception, say, for comparison to LS50 meta, try roll off the bass below like 80hz and cut it off around 50hz to see how the lack of bass extension of LS50 does to the overall perception, or for the mids, since we don't have the spin of better, later model, and only for the sake of trying out FR effects, based on the Amirm measured old ver SCM19, try knock down the 500-5khz region by say, 6db, then you could judge.

I don't have a definitive answer to exactly what band contribute to what perception, but back when I was trying out subwoofer integration on my desktop, just simply changing the >200hz roll off trend curve changed the perception of body and percieved detail a lot

 

[Ktacos]

I have to ask, is there some sort of group think among ATC owners or some sort of end user agreement where they arent willing or not allowed to share measurements of the speakers? How long has the company been around? You'd think there would be more out there. I thought these speakers were used by mix engineers, you know people who are supposed to have a technical background in audio capture and reproduction? None of those people had any interest in verifying their tools?

We have spinorama of some fairly obscure stuff but ATC evades it somehow? Makes no sense. You'd think the owners here would want to share some data considering how much their performance comes into question.

 

[YSDR]

This will be a question to experienced speaker designers: what is their secret sauce. You can start with Audio Note designers, how did they manage to make their speakers sound subjectively good, while they are obviously flawed based on measurement data.

Personally I don't find AN speakers to sound good subjectively. At least those that I heard.
But they can be appealing to some for sure, because they have a 'character', you can see that on the measurements.

 

[Amsz]

I have to ask, is there some sort of group think among ATC owners or some sort of end user agreement where they arent willing or not allowed to share measurements of the speakers? How long has the company been around? You'd think there would be more out there. I thought these speakers were used by mix engineers, you know people who are supposed to have a technical background in audio capture and reproduction? None of those people had any interest in verifying their tools?

We have spinorama of some fairly obscure stuff but ATC evades it somehow? Makes no sense. You'd think the owners here would want to share some data considering how much their performance comes into question.

I’ve posted some in room measurements upper in this thread