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ATC speakers / Monitors

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Pearljam5000

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Correct, this is just information for those unfamiliar with Genelec speakers. I didn't want people to feel that all Genelecs were somehow more innately flattering as a pro tool.
That's the notion on GS
 

Frgirard

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The time of the deity of the engineer who has no competence, would it be over?

Like Steve Wilson, I have always thought that the mastering engineer was like the conductor, a patch that had become essential through laziness and force of habit.

The speaker like a pro tool for is a myth.

 

krabapple

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This is also for marketing their studio. Using popular, expensive equipment is one of factors that could attract new customers for small studios. But let you see how many 'popular, major, master class' engineers are using ATC... They don't select their "Main Tools" just by just marketing.


You should read what Floyd Toole has reported about the measured sound of audio production rooms.

(tl;dr answer: all over the place)

Some 'major, master class' engineers can and have made ridiculous pronouncements about sound and recording technology, unmoored from science.

And too, 'fads' exist in sound production just as they do in other fields.

Didn't we just have a thread supposedly indicating that widespread use of B&W speakers in classical music production means B&W must be good?
 

krabapple

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No, that's not what I'm saying. Please don't put words in my mouth. The cart does not come before the horse. What I'm saying is that there are many, many monitors on the market, and there are differences between them. Some engineers get best results with this one, and other engineers get best results with that one. ATC, like many other companies, makes good speakers, and then the market responds.
I might be wrong, but the OP seemed to question why ATC speakers were popular with studios, but not here. I think the answer is that studio engineers have a complicated mix of priorities, some of which may not be the same as here. They're workmen, and they use what works.

Do they have any clue why it works'? Have they explored the loudspeaker space enough to know that nothing 'works' better?

Your 'workmen' sound utterly mired in Floyd Toole's 'Circle of Confusion'.
 

krabapple

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Most people do prefer "warm" and "musical" sound, and i can't blame them, it's easier to listen to, i like accurate and flat and uncolored sound (Genelec for example)
Like they said on the video, ATC sounded like "analog" , and the D&D 8C sounded "digital".
This is why audiophiles also like Vinyl, obviously its less accurate than digital but if they like It more.

Most people like a downward tilted in-room frequency response at the listening position.
 

Spocko

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ATC monitors are considered to be one of the best if not the best monitors on the planet, it's also a consensus on Gearslutz
But around here they're not very popular
I must understand why :)
I had to re-read your original post and I can tell you why from the point of view of a prospective purchaser of ATC for "pro duty". After diving deep into Gearslutz reviews by pros who bring home multiple speakers to test and compare as well as non-pros looking for a good speaker, my meta conclusion is as follows:
  • ATC has a cult following of the undying faithful - so I'll throw these impressions out the window
  • Interested consumers in the market for home audio ended up with ATC speakers due to the wonderful midrange - this is an ongoing theme with ATC speakers - that mid-dome allure is hypnotic beyond all reason. Sighted bias or real world improvement, who knows?
  • Interested pros looking to upgrade their gear who compare ATC with Genelec, Kii and D&D 8C near unanimously end up with some form of active DSP speaker at the end.
The problem for prospective shoppers is when they dive into the ATC cult - you buy into that mid-dome "magic".
 

Chrise36

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I had to re-read your original post and I can tell you why from the point of view of a prospective purchaser of ATC for "pro duty". After diving deep into Gearslutz reviews by pros who bring home multiple speakers to test and compare as well as non-pros looking for a good speaker, my meta conclusion is as follows:
  • ATC has a cult following of the undying faithful - so I'll throw these impressions out the window
  • Interested consumers in the market for home audio ended up with ATC speakers due to the wonderful midrange - this is an ongoing theme with ATC speakers - that mid-dome allure is hypnotic beyond all reason. Sighted bias or real world improvement, who knows?
  • Interested pros looking to upgrade their gear who compare ATC with Genelec, Kii and D&D 8C near unanimously end up with some form of active DSP speaker at the end.
The problem for prospective shoppers is when they dive into the ATC cult - you buy into that mid-dome "magic".
In the end we have to agree it is down to personal preference. In the comparison video of alphaaudio guys:
the artist prefered the ATC while the "experts" prefered the others. I mean who should we trust the musician or the recording engineer and why? There are also numerous examples of people who bought the best measuring pro monitors but would like to own ATC and vice versa.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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I had to re-read your original post and I can tell you why from the point of view of a prospective purchaser of ATC for "pro duty". After diving deep into Gearslutz reviews by pros who bring home multiple speakers to test and compare as well as non-pros looking for a good speaker, my meta conclusion is as follows:
  • ATC has a cult following of the undying faithful - so I'll throw these impressions out the window
  • Interested consumers in the market for home audio ended up with ATC speakers due to the wonderful midrange - this is an ongoing theme with ATC speakers - that mid-dome allure is hypnotic beyond all reason. Sighted bias or real world improvement, who knows?
  • Interested pros looking to upgrade their gear who compare ATC with Genelec, Kii and D&D 8C near unanimously end up with some form of active DSP speaker at the end.
The problem for prospective shoppers is when they dive into the ATC cult - you buy into that mid-dome "magic".
The best thing that ATC did is his marketing and their '' magic '' sound, its funny when a engineer use the word '' magic '' tho.
There is nothing magic in that mid range.., the dome that neumann use in his kh420 its better
 

Chrise36

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The best thing that ATC did is his marketing and their '' magic '' sound, its funny when a engineer use the word '' magic '' tho.
There is nothing magic in that mid range.., the dome that neumann use in his kh420 its better
Why?
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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They dont play in the same bandwidth the ATC plays much lower which one will give you the more homogenous midrange?
Neumann plays at 570hz and the atc at 380hz, if the ATC have a '' magic '' their crossover point will be something even lower, something like 200hz.
That will be '' magic ''. :)
 

807Recordings

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Can we talk more about this! I am of the belief that as human beings, most people who are incredibly busy and specialized follow the general rule: "To a hammer, everything is a nail." In other words mixers and mastering engineers are all accustomed to a specific workflow that they have perfected, winning them awards within their genre but this does NOT mean that said award winning workflow can be implemented into a completely different genre. If the mastering engineer rebuilds his entire workflow and toolkit and looks at every new job with fresh eyes - that's brilliant. But the likelihood is that people have affirmation bias, believing their way is the best way because "awards" so why should they change? They put everything through their "hammer" and everything comes out a flattened "nail" - great if you're building tables for Cort, terrible if you're crafting a desk for the Queen of England.
We touch on a tricky area but an area where things should not be overlapped:
I use various synthesizers (pretty clear in my electronic music), most analog and I will be the first to admit it is highly subjective. Some I prefer for the feel and vibe I get with working on them. That is the art along with whatever crazy idea inspired the tracks I created.

The ADC, DAC and signal chain to record should be as neutral as possible and objectively measure so. Also this included the monitors and more importantly your room. The industry spouting anything different is like the Shamen in Mexico claiming Coca Cola will cure diabetics and that the fighting in the house it the cause of the disease. In short it is just wrong.

To that point ATC may measure well but I still have not seen proof of this. But we do live in a world of failing dinosaurs with their disciples faithfully supporting the cause.
 

Spocko

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In the end we have to agree it is down to personal preference. In the comparison video of alphaaudio guys:
the artist prefered the ATC while the "experts" prefered the others. I mean who should we trust the musician or the recording engineer and why? There are also numerous examples of people who bought the best measuring pro monitors but would like to own ATC and vice versa.
Yep, this kind a makes my point - the musician is more like the home audio consumer, listening for pleasure, whereas the pros are looking for a speaker that can lay bare the flaws so they can properly master it to sound good in "most speakers" not just the good stuff.

A professional cannot trust the musician because he's listening for the the end result - wow this stuff sounds good even if the source is terrible. The pro wants to hear the terrible raw source so he can fix it.
 

unloren

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Just to pile on, I think there is some irony in this. How much of the music that audiophiles enjoy on their objectively well-measuring systems was mixed and mastered on ATC, PMC, etc. ( in other words "snake oil/inferior") monitors?

I do believe in objective measurements and blind listening, but A) objective measurements only tell you what you are measuring for, such as flat frequency response and low distortion, and B) blind listening tests can only show you what you are listening for, in many cases the "best" sound of a recorded piece of music (best meaning balanced or accurate).

Honestly I don't know exactly what those qualities are that lay bare the flaws in a recording, as Spocko said, but if hundreds of mixing engineers say that ATC gives them this information I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Maybe it's not a ruler-flat frequency response and ultra low distortion that helps a mixing engineer get a good mix, but rather a bump in a certain frequency range is beneficial, and maybe some amount of distortion or "low bandwidth" also indicates when a recording may sound harsh or muddy on a large swathe of commercial playback devices.

I can get a good sounding mix on a set of well-measuring Genelecs but when I play the song back from an iPhone speaker I can hear immediately that the hihats are way too bright. I'd never want to mix on an iPhone speaker alone, but if there was some magic set of monitors that was able to present a full frequency range and also point out those flaws, well that would be the ideal monitor for me as a mixer. I wouldn't care how the measurements look.

There's also the matter of fatigue. I may not want a completely flat response above 8khz because after 15 minutes of EQing cymbals my ears will be shot for the rest of the day.

If someone could answer why some monitors work better for mixing than others I would love to know why, but I don't think it can be answered by simply saying people are brainwashed by marketing.
 

thewas

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Proofs ? Brand and model.
 
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