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Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX Review

Pay shipping twice for a speaker that already has Klippel data published and readily available? Why? Erin already reviewed the Sierra 1 V2 that uses the same tweeter and his data almost lined up perfectly with what Dave at Ascend published.
Dave at Ascend does not publish the distortion measurements that Amir and Erin do, or compression measurements that Erin does, or the waterfall plots that Amir does - although he might provide such info on request. I'm not sure why, as the Ascend products likely perform very well on those tests.
 
Dave at Ascend does not publish the distortion measurements that Amir and Erin do, or compression measurements that Erin does, or the waterfall plots that Amir does - although he might provide such info on request. I'm not sure why, as the Ascend products likely perform very well on those tests.

He's explained before that it is because distortion measurements are heavily room dependent, so they are intrinsically variable from reviewer to reviewer and have questionable value for an average consumer/ have caused more confusion than they are worth (again, my paraphrase/takeaway from his post). I believe his post is here on ASR but would need to find it.
 
He's explained before that it is because distortion measurements are heavily room dependent, so they are intrinsically variable from reviewer to reviewer and have questionable value for an average consumer/ have caused more confusion than they are worth (again, my paraphrase/takeaway from his post). I believe his post is here on ASR but would need to find it.
Does that mean Klippel does not provide a room-independent method to measure distortion, as they do frequency response?
 
Does that mean Klippel does not provide a room-independent method to measure distortion, as they do frequency response?
I can't comment on that specifically, but it seems reasonable to assume that if there were it would probably be utilized. I recall the discussion around this from Dave and others being very informative but again, unfortunately can't find it at the moment.
 
Yeah I get it,but that's hard to compare sometimes too,as Erin and Amir both measure distortion differently and only Erin measures compression and IMD.
Dave at Ascend does not publish the distortion measurements that Amir and Erin do, or compression measurements that Erin does, or the waterfall plots that Amir does - although he might provide such info on request. I'm not sure why, as the Ascend products likely perform very well on those tests.
I understand what Amir and Erin measure,as I clearly said in the post above. Dave has also published distortion plots for the LX before on the Ascend forums .
8AE13519-915E-4DA3-BADF-257FD70EB28C.jpeg
 
I understand what Amir and Erin measure,as I clearly said in the post above. Dave has also published distortion plots for the LX before on the Ascend forums .View attachment 351690
I believe there is some dispute whether anechoic or non-anechoic (= echoic?) distortion measurements are correct. It appears that Dave is in the non-anechoic camp. I can see why he wouldn't want to publish these - not that they're bad at all, but they look bad, with all the reflections and modes making a mess of the FR plot
 
I believe there is some dispute whether anechoic or non-anechoic (= echoic?) distortion measurements are correct. It appears that Dave is in the non-anechoic camp. I can see why he wouldn't want to publish these - not that they're bad at all, but they look bad, with all the reflections and modes making a mess of the FR plot
I can't speak for Dave,your more than welcome to email him,he is quick to respond and has always answered my questions promptly.
 
I can't speak for Dave,your more than welcome to email him,he is quick to respond and has always answered my questions promptly.
Actually, now that you mentioned it, Dave did explain this issue to me. This is what he said:
Distortion measurements are really only valid if taken in the exact same environment and procedures. Klippel distortion measurements are not anechoic, such that distortion measurements taken by us, can only be compared with other speaker's distortion measurement that we also take. Same if you see distortion taken in a different environment - they are only comparable to other speakers taken by them.
 
He's explained before that it is because distortion measurements are heavily room dependent, so they are intrinsically variable from reviewer to reviewer and have questionable value for an average consumer/ have caused more confusion than they are worth (again, my paraphrase/takeaway from his post). I believe his post is here on ASR but would need to find it.
Even if they are room dependent, Erin is using the same room for every speaker he measure, so even if there is some sort of accuracy issue relative to an anechoic measurement, the issue is the same for all the speaker, so the measurement is valid as a relative measure, so let's just get a set to Erin and let him do his thing. I think the LX's would be stellar and it would be interesting to see how close they come to the Sointuva's he just measured. Really the LX's are about the only major contender left in the market that neither Amir nor Erin have measured.
 
Even if they are room dependent, Erin is using the same room for every speaker he measure, so even if there is some sort of accuracy issue relative to an anechoic measurement, the issue is the same for all the speaker, so the measurement is valid as a relative measure, so let's just get a set to Erin and let him do his thing. I think the LX's would be stellar and it would be interesting to see how close they come to the Sointuva's he just measured. Really the LX's are about the only major contender left in the market that neither Amir nor Erin have measured.
From my own perspective it's valid in his room but nowhere else, which is the point. May be higher, may be lower, but different in different places. If there are differences in distortion between reviews then people ask questions, and if there is only one review with distortion then people draw incomplete conclusions as well. Regarding relative differences, if Erin gets the speaker and does it then it's welsome, but that is a different question than the one about why Dave doesn't share it.

I'm not saying there is a right or wrong here, but I do understand why Dave has chosen not to include it in his measurements on his site. I also understand the argument of there being ony marginal value in measuring the LXs again given the work already done.
 
Erin is using the same room for every speaker he measure
I don't think so. He used to use the garage, but in a recent video he said the Klippel was set up in his dining room. Also didn't he move in the last year or two?
 
It's a bit hot > 2 kHz when looking at the in-room response, which I think is linked to the brightness.
That is very hard to believe. That little hump is marginal, there are so many speakers that are worse with humps here and there. But I should be getting mine in next Friday, so I will give it a listen and report back.

Also, keep in mind, everything is relative, perhaps the OP is use to speakers there there is a dip in the HF area, so the neutrality of these speakers now comes across as bright.
 
Fair point but Ascend has a history of publishing measurements and being very transparent. I suspect we get to diminishing returns on this...
I would semi-agree with you, but after:

1) manufacturer measurements (possibly not entirely trustworthy as of course they want to project the best results).
2) (assumed) independent measurements (such as Erin or Amir, to confirm manufacturer's results or to show the less flattering results).
3) (assumed) second independent measurements (such as Erin or Amir or other, to either confirm the trend as being extremely reliable, or if differing results, to point out possible flaws in either the manufacturing process or the processes of the independent measurers as well) .

Beyond that, I might agree with you (if they all paint the same or similar picture) about more testing being diminishing returns. But the more reproduceable results are, the more reliable/trustworthy the testing methods seem to be.
 
I would semi-agree with you, but after:

1) manufacturer measurements (possibly not entirely trustworthy as of course they want to project the best results).
2) (assumed) independent measurements (such as Erin or Amir, to confirm manufacturer's results or to show the less flattering results).
3) (assumed) second independent measurements (such as Erin or Amir or other, to either confirm the trend as being extremely reliable, or if differing results, to point out possible flaws in either the manufacturing process or the processes of the independent measurers as well) .

Beyond that, I might agree with you (if they all paint the same or similar picture) about more testing being diminishing returns. But the more reproduceable results are, the more reliable/trustworthy the testing methods seem to be.
The biggest challenge that I personally have sending a pair of brand new speakers in for a review is
(1) Some reviewers may take it apart to see the inside guts, I know if you ask them not to, they won't.
(2) They need to drive it hard for their measurements. I know if a speaker is well designed, driving it hard won't break it, but I don't want to take that chance and if it did broke, I'm pretty sure it's not covered under warranty.
(3) It's a brand new speaker, I should be the one to de-virginize it. :p
 
That is very hard to believe. That little hump is marginal, there are so many speakers that are worse with humps here and there. But I should be getting mine in next Friday, so I will give it a listen and report back.

Also, keep in mind, everything is relative, perhaps the OP is use to speakers there there is a dip in the HF area, so the neutrality of these speakers now comes across as bright.
It depends. Some are more sensitive than others. I am quite sensitive to any peaks on or off-axis in the 3-4 kHz region.
 
It depends. Some are more sensitive than others. I am quite sensitive to any peaks on or off-axis in the 3-4 kHz region.
Then you will be sensitive to ANY speaker with such peak, not just Ascend speakers.

This "hump" on the Ascent Sierra LX is marginal compared to other speakers, as such if one were to have such sensitivity issue with this Ascend speakers, they will have the same sensitivity issues with any other speakers with similar characteristics.

I can also tell you from looking at the data, these speakers are simply as flat as you can get without the use of active crossovers or DSP. Which means, any other speaker with a hump in the same FR range, will likely be worse.
 
Then you will be sensitive to ANY speaker with such peak, not just Ascend speakers.

This "hump" on the Ascent Sierra LX is marginal compared to other speakers, as such if one were to have such sensitivity issue with this Ascend speakers, they will have the same sensitivity issues with any other speakers with similar characteristics.

I can also tell you from looking at the data, these speakers are simply as flat as you can get without the use of active crossovers or DSP. Which means, any other speaker with a hump in the same FR range, will likely be worse.
Many speakers but not all suffers from 3-4 kHz peaks on off-axis. Due to the stereo error with the dip 1-2 kHz this will be enhanced and easily heard as a weaker energy 1-2 kHz and a boost 3-4 kHz when doing sweeps in the 1-5 kHz region in stereo mode.
 
Many speakers but not all suffers from 3-4 kHz peaks on off-axis. Due to the stereo error with the dip 1-2 kHz this will be enhanced and easily heard as a weaker energy 1-2 kHz and a boost 3-4 kHz when doing sweeps in the 1-5 kHz region in stereo mode.
I guess what I am saying is that, whatever peaks that these Ascend has, they are mild, very mild. And if mild peak is manifesting as "bright" then good luck with other speakers.

Also again, this is the OP's subjective feedback, it is also possible that the OP is not accustom to neutral speakers or any other whole host of reasons.

I will be getting mine next Friday, while I am not expecting it to be anything but neutral, maybe not as neutral as my DSP Neumann's but as neutral as a passive speaker can be, I will try my best to observe it without bias, if that is even possible.
 
The biggest challenge that I personally have sending a pair of brand new speakers in for a review is
(1) Some reviewers may take it apart to see the inside guts, I know if you ask them not to, they won't.
(2) They need to drive it hard for their measurements. I know if a speaker is well designed, driving it hard won't break it, but I don't want to take that chance and if it did broke, I'm pretty sure it's not covered under warranty.
(3) It's a brand new speaker, I should be the one to de-virginize it. :p
I get you, but...
1) I'm not sure if Amir does this or not, but even if he does, pulling 4 screws to look inside the woofer hole is not really a big deal. Also, you only send one speaker, not the pair.

2) You are absolutely correct on this point. All I can say is that a brand new speaker should be able to handle this, and if not, it's not really worth owning. And sending in a speaker is a choice, and not for everyone. For me -- it's my way to semi-support ASR and its mission, and there's a secret thrill when the results come in (that's my speaker!).

3) When I recently got a new pair of speakers, I offered to drop-ship them to Amir for testing, and he said he preferred me to get the speakers and test them myself first, so if there were any issues, it would be easier to contact the manufacturer and get them corrected (and there actually was a problem with one of them this last time, so his advice was spot on). The original plan was for me to listen to them for a day or two before sending one out. The fact that one of them had a misaligned woofer (likely from shipment) made it an easy decision to immediately send the good one to Amir, since I'd have to wait for the replacement anyway.
 
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