Thoughts on upgrading from Harbeth P3esr to Ascend Sierra-Lx

[Francoamerican]

I have a pair of Harbeth P3esr that i original bought for office use but moved home early covid. They were fantastic on my desk. Looking for the same decent linearity and frankly sweet (maybe nonlinear- but look pretty good on measurements i've seen) sound, but looking to have a little greater SPL capabilities and bass (even though i generally do not listen at loud levels P3esr do feel like they hit a wall at home)

I now have them at 10 degree off axis at about 5ft wide 5ft nearfield triangle in an little 7.5ft x 17ft office annex in my home (the only place my wife will give me in otherwise nice american home!). About 1+ ft from side walls and 1.5 from back walls (not exact square) and I may still keep them as they may end up on a desk again.

I'm definitely an objectivist but i also just don't want to waste Ascend's time and money by buying something and returning something that is isn't going to be very different or have other downsides in my room.

Other notes:

EQ not practical as I'm all in on Apple Music Lossless with iOS.

Since this is for pretty dedicated listening area seems like the Ascend will be better than similar KEF alternatives (don't need particularly directivity).

I have a nice 150 watt 4 ohm AB amp and aesthetics and potential domestic use (being let out of my den) rule out active monitors.

My question is - any reason to suppose I lose anything good about P3esr going from P3esr to Sierra-LX in my room?

 

[bumelant]

Harbeth are unique in a way, as they’re sealed monitors. The bass rolloff is very smooth and natural and it works well in many rooms that amplify bass. If you feel you’re lacking in that department, it may be beneficial to upgrade to ported speakers that are also bigger, but - without EQ - it’s going to become much more room dependent as there will be much more bass and going much deeper down, so your bass/lower midrange may get bloated in some way until you use equalizer. This may be fine for some music for some people, nut may be also pretty bad for classical or jazz or even electronic music that is depended on rhythm and pace.

 

[RobL]

Not sure if you’ve seen it but there is discussion about the Sierra LX here in this thread. Can’t help you much as I haven’t heard the LX’s. I did hear P3ESR’s in a showroom a few years ago, they were impressive for their size.

 

[Francoamerican]

Harbeth are unique in a way, as they’re sealed monitors. The bass rolloff is very smooth and natural and it works well in many rooms that amplify bass. If you feel you’re lacking in that department, it may be beneficial to upgrade to ported speakers that are also bigger, but - without EQ - it’s going to become much more room dependent as there will be much more bass and going much deeper down, so your bass/lower midrange may get bloated in some way until you use equalizer. This may be fine for some music for some people, nut may be also pretty bad for classical or jazz or even electronic music that is depended on rhythm and pace.

The makes a lot of sense. So there may be some trade offs in terms of trying to add what's missing (at least in terms of complexity)

 

[djw.cloud]

I have had both speakers. The LX I had about the same distance from the wall but in a much bigger room. I am afraid the bass might be a little much for that room. My room is about 15x20 and the LX performance in this room was wonderful. I think a Sealed speaker is the way to go, but that LX really is a great speaker. Just a step below the Harbeth in vocal region. Feel free to ask any questions

 

[Francoamerican]

I have had both speakers. The LX I had about the same distance from the wall but in a much bigger room. I am afraid the bass might be a little much for that room. My room is about 15x20 and the LX performance in this room was wonderful. I think a Sealed speaker is the way to go, but that LX really is a great speaker. Just a step below the Harbeth in vocal region. Feel free to ask any questions

Thanks! The room is only partially closed off from a much larger room but I hear what you’re saying and I think even for the sake of my hearing maybe forcing my self to listen at sub 85db may be best.

Super appreciate it. I also do like the near-field listening. How close were you to LX?

 

[djw.cloud]

12 plus feet. What about the front ported Nueman ? I bet that would be great.

 

[AM88]

Ascend does sell port plugs specifically for the lx. https://ascendacoustics.com/products/q-plugs?variant=40527921840182 I think they might be able to be used for their smaller sierra models also. I’m sure Dave F. would be able to help.

 

[Willem]

I similarly use a pair of Harbeth P3ESRs as my desktop speakers and they are very good, within the expected limitations. I would not replace them, if only because ditching good gear is rarely a financially smart move (and you quite rightly like them). So instead I would recommend to get a smallish subwoofer. Out of curiosity I once did an experiment with my little Harbeths, and moved them to my main system in our 70 sqm living room with at that time just one B&W PV1d subwoofer. I played the Harbeths full range, and the sub lowpassed somewhere around 40 Hz and equalized by an ANtimode 8033. The transformation was quite spectacular, with massive organ notes seemingly coming out of such diminutive speakers. The integration was excellent. The new combination also produced a rather larger sound bubble, even though it did not quite manage to subjectively fill this large room. There is only so much you can make a small speaker do, after all. Using one equalized subwoofer is usually fine for one listening position, but for a smooth response across a wider area you will benefit from two.

 

[Francoamerican]

I similarly use a pair of Harbeth P3ESRs as my desktop speakers and they are very good, within the expected limitations. I would not replace them, if only because ditching good gear is rarely a financially smart move (and you quite rightly like them). So instead I would recommend to get a smallish subwoofer.

I will have to look into that more, appreciate the advice on not selling as well. Maybe i'll just buy some additional speakers for variety an experimentation as well.

 

[Guddu]

Ascend does sell port plugs specifically for the lx. https://ascendacoustics.com/products/q-plugs?variant=40527921840182 I think they might be able to be used for their smaller sierra models also. I’m sure Dave F. would be able to help.

Those plugs come with Sierra-lx for no additional cost, or at least came with mine.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Emphasized-bass + small-room + no-EQ == big-gamble

 

[MarkS]

EQ not practical as I'm all in on Apple Music Lossless with iOS

There are parametric equalizers for iOS:

https://audioforge.net/eqmanual.html

https://parametric-equalizer.en.softonic.com/iphone

 

[Audio Science Pal]

EQ not practical

The Sierra LX is supplied with foam port plugs and port reducer sleeves. I tried the open port, reduced port and sealed plugs to determine the best bass for my space. During the trials, I leave some foam exposed so it is easy to grab and remove the plugs.

 

[Francoamerican]

Emphasized-bass + small-room + no-EQ == big-gamble

@ShadowBoxer Could i interpret this chart that perhaps the non-LX version may be a bit easier to deal with? The appeal of the LX to me was low distortion with dynamic music.

@MarkS
I'll have to check out the EQ as well. appreciate it.

@Willem
One thing that concerns me always when i'm listening is that i'm sometimes worried about pushing too hard on the speakers esp since like you I have a 100w amp. I'm not certain if the power limitation is a function of the sealed design or other factors, but i've always found amp headroom beneficial, but i've not been speaker limited before the little harbeth.

 

[mtaz]

Regarding SPL, you definitely won't have any complaints with the Sierras in that space. I've turned down the volume more than once out of concern for my hearing.

However, I would prefer more bass. I'm planning to get a subwoofer soon. Possibly a RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII or even a SVS PB-3000. So I agree with Willem about getting a subwoofer. If you're not satisfied with that combined with your Harbeths then you can upgrade to a different speaker.

 

[Francoamerican]

Now down the rabbit hole on miniDSP flex. I've wanting to swap out my DAC to have remote controlled volume control and it looks like the miniDSP flex has that feature for quite a reasonable price AND in addition both the room eq and subwoofer solutions. thanks all again

 

[ShadowBoxer]

@ShadowBoxer Could i interpret this chart that perhaps the non-LX version may be a bit easier to deal with?

Yes. For your scenario I personally think that (S1-V2+Sub) is likely more optimum in the small room than Sierra-LX alone because you have more control of the bass. With the LX (and no EQ) it will be a take or leave it scenario (the port plugs may help some). Assuming you are comfortable with integrating a sub.

And the $400 lesser price difference is at least half of the cost of a decent sub (for a small room, at least). Both models use the same tweeter.

 

[Willem]

@Willem
One thing that concerns me always when i'm listening is that i'm sometimes worried about pushing too hard on the speakers esp since like you I have a 100w amp. I'm not certain if the power limitation is a function of the sealed design or other factors, but i've always found amp headroom beneficial, but i've not been speaker limited before the little harbeth.

I would not worry too much about blowing up the little Harbeths. I use them with a 100 watt Quad 405-2 and that is fine. The amplifier in my main system that I tried them in is a 2x140 watt Quad 606-2 and that was fine playing pretty loudly in a large room. Admittedly, much depends on the music you play.
If you want more spl and more bass, I think you should really consider the subwoofer route first, and if you still want more headroom apply a high pass filter to the power amp/Harbeths. One easy way to integrate all this perfectly is to use a DSpeaker ANtimode X2 (depending on the rest of your hardware) for dsp room equalization (necessary for any system with serious bass) and automatic crossover settngs. Personally, and since you are in the US, I would probably get two SVS SB1000 classics. You don't need the Pro version because the ANtimode X2 will provide the filters. This will give you more spl and more quality bass than any alternative small speaker can provide - and you can keep the Harbeths that you like so much.

 

[Francoamerican]

You don't need the Pro version because the ANtimode X2 will provide the filters.

It seems like they discontinued the NON pro, but these are fantastic suggestions. The minidsp flex seems to have greater US availability, but you've all really put me in the right direction in terms of improving my enjoyment of the music!