Are you using a subwoofer/subwoofers?

[DonH56]

That could explain it I guess?

Explain the low-frequency (LF) content in music? Yes, among other things... There are also many percussive sounds from things like drums, plucked strings, and so forth that have LF content. For that matter, a bass trombone's lowest note is around 60 Hz, same for a bassoon, harp and piano go to 30 Hz or so, etc. It may not be "loud" but there is a lot of low-frequency content in music. I didn't think I was missing much until I added a sub to my system (decades ago) and realized just how much an extra octave or two added to the sound.

Of course, back then I also got record warps, tape rumble, etc...

Note LFE stands for "low-frequency effects" and is specific to movies and some surround-sound recordings. It is the ".1" sound track in movies and is actually recorded at different sample rate and resolution than the main channels (though I do not know if that changed for Atmos). The subwoofer output of an AVR/AVP will route the LFE track to the subwoofer (if present). Bass management is the process of diverting deep bass from the "other" movie tracks, or stereo music recordings, away from the main speakers into the sub(s). That lets the mains sound better by not forcing them to handle the deep bass, letting the subs do their thing.

HTH - Don

 

[sarumbear]

Note LFE stands for "low-frequency effects" and is specific to movies and some surround-sound recordings. It is the ".1" sound track in movies and is actually recorded at different sample rate and resolution than the main channels (though I do not know if that changed for Atmos).

Are you sure LFE recorded at a different sample rate? Could it be that you meant delivery instead as in Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC-3).

DCM requires 6 discreet WAV files each at 24-bit / 48kHz. Why would the producers have the LFE created at a lower specification? Besides, when the masters were on tape the recorders had no option to have an option to set sampling on per channel basis.

 

[AdamG]

 

[sarumbear]

Along the subwoofer road, somehow we lost the concept of woofer and 3-way speaker…

 

[DonH56]

Are you sure LFE recorded at a different sample rate? Could it be that you meant delivery instead as in Dolby Digital Plus™ (E-AC-3).

DCM requires 6 discreet WAV files each at 24-bit / 48kHz. Why would the producers have the LFE created at a lower specification? Besides, when the masters were on tape the recorders had no option to have an option to set sampling on per channel basis.

I do not remember the details, not my day job, and I don't have the spec handy (at work). IIRC In The Beginning the LFE track was "recorded" (or perhaps "encoded") at -10 dB compared to the other tracks with 8 bits and a sample rate of 240 S/s (not k or M, samples per second). I do not know if it was recorded that way or reduced to that in the encoding process, nor do I know if current codecs allow LFE to be full range. It was ten-plus years ago when I last looked in detail at the LFE spec, and since then I think Dolby made you register (and pay?) to get the spec so I do not know if it has changed.

 

[AdamG]

Along the subwoofer road, somehow we lost the concept of woofer and 3-way speaker…

I would submit that we further refined and improved upon it. The benefits of having self powered Subs are many. From better room placement to improved performance and reduced power demands of Speker midwoofers, midranges and tweeters. As long as you do a proper job integrating the subs with your mains it provides many improvements.

 

[sarumbear]

I do not remember the details, not my day job, and I don't have the spec handy (at work). IIRC In The Beginning the LFE track was "recorded" (or perhaps "encoded") at -10 dB compared to the other tracks with 8 bits and a sample rate of 240 S/s (not k or M, samples per second). I do not know if it was recorded that way or reduced to that in the encoding process, nor do I know if current codecs allow LFE to be full range. It was ten-plus years ago when I last looked in detail at the LFE spec, and since then I think Dolby made you register (and pay?) to get the spec so I do not know if it has changed.

You are talking about Dolby SR-D which was an optical distribution format (the optical track of a cellulite film) that dates back to early 90s. Film/TV production has moved on a lot during the last 40 years. However, even then LFE was still recorded at the same rate as the other channels on the master tape for the reason I explained earlier. Trust me. It was my day job for decades.

 

[CherylJosie]

Explain the low-frequency (LF) content in music? Yes, among other things... There are also many percussive sounds from things like drums, plucked strings, and so forth that have LF content. For that matter, a bass trombone's lowest note is around 60 Hz, same for a bassoon, harp and piano go to 30 Hz or so, etc. It may not be "loud" but there is a lot of low-frequency content in music. I didn't think I was missing much until I added a sub to my system (decades ago) and realized just how much an extra octave or two added to the sound.

Of course, back then I also got record warps, tape rumble, etc...

Note LFE stands for "low-frequency effects" and is specific to movies and some surround-sound recordings. It is the ".1" sound track in movies and is actually recorded at different sample rate and resolution than the main channels (though I do not know if that changed for Atmos). The subwoofer output of an AVR/AVP will route the LFE track to the subwoofer (if present). Bass management is the process of diverting deep bass from the "other" movie tracks, or stereo music recordings, away from the main speakers into the sub(s). That lets the mains sound better by not forcing them to handle the deep bass, letting the subs do their thing.

HTH - Don

Ah, I thought LFE could also be used as an abbreviation for low frequency extension? as in, -3dB LFE?

 

[sarumbear]

I would submit that we further refined and improved upon it. The benefits of having self powered Subs are many. From better room placement to improved performance and reduced power demands of Speker midwoofers, midranges and tweeters. As long as you do a proper job integrating the subs with your mains it provides many improvements.

I respectfully disagree. It’s a cost effective and decor friendly solution, but not the most optimum.

 

[DonH56]

You are talking about Dolby SR-D which was an optical distribution format (the optical track of a cellulite film) that dates back to early 90s. Film/TV production has moved on a lot during the last 40 years. However, even then LFE was still recorded at the same rate as the other channels on the master tape for the reason I explained earlier. Trust me. It was my day job for decades.

I don't doubt your experience on the recording side, but the playback numbers were from a ca. 2007-2010 Dolby spec. I do not remember the exact format, but much newer than SR-D. Predated Atmos, however, and probably HD-Master or whatever it's called. I did a major upgrade to our HT system around then and dug up all the specs. I was curious because LFE was not handled properly by one of my AVRs.

Edit: It was from the Dolby Digital (5.1) spec (c) 2000; it was current in 2016 when I requested a copy.

 

[DonH56]

Ah, I thought LFE could also be used as an abbreviation for low frequency extension? as in, -3dB LFE?

Probably, I thought you were asking about the LFE channel. Coming from the design world commercial and government I cannot keep track of all the acronyms.

 

[sarumbear]

It is the ".1" sound track in movies and is actually recorded at different sample rate and resolution than the main channels

I don't doubt your experience on the recording side, but the playback numbers were from a ca. 2007-2010 Dolby spec. I do not remember the exact format, but much newer than SR-D. Predated Atmos, however, and probably HD-Master or whatever it's called. I did a major upgrade to our HT system around then and dug up all the specs. I was curious because LFE was not handled properly by one of my AVRs.

Edit: It was from the Dolby Digital (5.1) spec (c) 2000; it was current in 2016 when I requested a copy.

I was commenting on the "recorded" comment you made earlier. However, you are now commenting on a distribution format. Two separate things.

Meanwhile, as DD is an ATC standard (A/52) you don't need to pay Dolby, it is available publicly.

The AC-3 digital compression algorithm specified in this document can encode from one to five full bandwidth audio channels, along with a low frequency enhancement channel. The six channels of source audio can be encoded from a PCM representation into a serial bit stream at data rates ranging from 32 kbps to 640 kbps. When all six channels are present this is referred to as 5.1 channels. The 0.1 channel refers to a fractional bandwidth channel intended to convey only low frequency (subwoofer) signals.

As you can see the LFE channel was only band limited. The standard can cater for the following sampling rates only: 32kHz, 44.1kHz & 48kHz which should be the same for all six channels.

 

[fpitas]

I have two woofers, but the boxes hold up the associated MTM arrays. Because I'm a rebel

 

[AdamG]

There is music/rhythm in the most unusual places. This guy has some serious skills and hands so fast they really do complexly blur out of focus like something you would see in a movie FX shot. Enjoy: