Can you use studio subwoofers at home?

[Deleted member 71304]

Hello everyone,
Since I know nothing about audio, my question may come across as not being particularly bright. In spite of the risk of depicting myself as an utter fool I would really like to ask if there is a reason for not using a studio subwoofer at home.
I have been searching for low budget subwoofer options and the ones I found seem a bit sloppy and (most importantly) they don't offer the possibility of filtering the frequencies that go to the main speakers (my amp does not have a sub output)
At Thomann (Germany-based shop) I have found several subwoofer options from brands like KRK, Swissonic etc that look really good.
Most of them offer several input options and also an output that allows (using the built-in crossover) to filter the frequencies you send to your main speakers.
Am I missing something? Is it a reasonable option to use a studio subwoofer at one's living room?
Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[ryanosaur]

One bit of advice is to consider how you are using the Sub and comparing its FR to that of your Speakers. A lot of "studio" Subs don't go very low. That said, the lower extension you want you Subwoofer to reach, usually the larger, heavier and more expensive it will be.

The American market is filled with Subs that can do both, work with or without an AVR to manage them. Many Plate Amps include a LPF for manually managing the cross to Speakers.

It really comes down to doing your research and identifying your goals for the system.

 

[DVDdoug]

Can you use studio subwoofers at home?

Yes.

And (most importantly) they don't offer the possibility of filtering the frequencies that go to the main speakers (my amp does not have a sub output)

With a home theater setup, that's handled by the AVR. It's called "bass management". It's optional. Without bass management the "regular bass" from the main & surround channels goes the separate speakers and only the "point one" LFE goes to the sub.

 

[kemmler3D]

Hello everyone,
Since I know nothing about audio, my question may come across as not being particularly bright. In spite of the risk of depicting myself as an utter fool I would really like to ask if there is a reason for not using a studio subwoofer at home.
I have been searching for low budget subwoofer options and the ones I found seem a bit sloppy and (most importantly) they don't offer the possibility of filtering the frequencies that go to the main speakers (my amp does not have a sub output)
At Thomann (Germany-based shop) I have found several subwoofer options from brands like KRK, Swissonic etc that look really good.
Most of them offer several input options and also an output that allows (using the built-in crossover) to filter the frequencies you send to your main speakers.
Am I missing something? Is it a reasonable option to use a studio subwoofer at one's living room?
Thanks a lot in advance!

Hey, welcome to ASR and it's not a dumb question.

Long story short, yes you can use studio subwoofers at home, there is nothing fundamentally different between home speakers and studio speakers.

However, by the same token, they are not necessarily better than "home" subs either. The main things to look for are whether they reach the needed SPL you want, and whether they reach the frequencies you want. I would not buy a subwoofer without determining these things, whether or not it has an integrated crossover. There is a good comparison chart by @sweetchaos you should look at.

There are also other ways to integrate subwoofers with main speakers, a good variety of DSP options exist (many by MiniDSP) that can do it regardless of what filters exist on the sub itself.

 

[Deleted member 71304]

Huauh, so fast I got already two answers, thank you very much to both of you!

 

[DVDdoug]

A lot of "studio" Subs don't go very low. That said, the lower extension you want you Subwoofer to reach, usually the larger, heavier and more expensive it will be.

That's true in both markets.

A "cheap" home subwoofer might put-out "more bass" but it may not have smooth bass response. (Smooth and deep frequency response is more important with music, and less important with explosions in movies.) A cheap studio sub might not go as loud or as deep, but it might be smoother (less "bad bass").

A subwoofer out of a pro recording studio should work great as a home sub.

Pro subs used for live music and in dance clubs are loud and efficient but they are typically tuned to go down to "only" around 40Hz. (The lowest note on a standard bass guitar is about 42Hz). By not going lower, they can make the speaker louder and more efficient to fill a large venue with bass that you can feel in your body.

 

[ryanosaur]

That's true in both markets.

A "cheap" home subwoofer might put-out "more bass" but it may not have smooth bass response. (Smooth and deep frequency response is more important with music, and less important with explosions in movies.) A cheap studio sub might not go as loud or as deep, but it might be smoother (less "bad bass").

A subwoofer out of a pro recording studio should work great as a home sub.

Pro subs used for live music and in dance clubs are loud and efficient but they are typically tuned to go down to "only" around 40Hz. (The lowest note on a standard bass guitar is about 42Hz). By not going lower, they can make the speaker louder and more efficient to fill a large venue with bass that you can feel in your body.

Completely agree.

Treatises on Subwoofers could be written! Alas, I don't have time right now.

 

[Deleted member 71304]

One bit of advice is to consider how you are using the Sub and comparing its FR to that of your Speakers. A lot of "studio" Subs don't go very low. That said, the lower extension you want you Subwoofer to reach, usually the larger, heavier and more expensive it will be.

The American market is filled with Subs that can do both, work with or without an AVR to manage them. Many Plate Amps include a LPF for manually managing the cross to Speakers.

It really comes down to doing your research and identifying your goals for the system.

Yes the first thing I did was to compare the FR, so, considering my speakers go from 50 Hz to 20 Khz, I thought of a subwoofer going down to 30 Hz might be a reasonable goal?
In this line of thought I found two studio subs around 400€ that seem fit to the task:

- KRK S10G4 (30 - 110 Hz)

KRK S10G4

KRK S10G4; Aktiver Studio Subwoofer 10"; Glas-Aramid-Verbundtieftöner; Frequenzbereich: 30 Hz - 110 Hz; max SPL: 117.2 dB; Class D Verstärker 160 Watt; SNR: 92 dB, Crossover Frequenz einstellbar; Bypass Funktion über optionalen Fußschalter; Schalter...

www.thomann.de

- Adam Audio T10s (28 Hz - 120 Hz)

ADAM Audio T10S

ADAM Audio T10S; Aktiver Subwoofer 10"; 130 Watt Class-D Verstärker; Frequenzbereich: 28 Hz - 120 Hz (-6 dB); Übergangsfrequenz: 80 Hz / 120 Hz / Bypass; Tiefpassfilter einstellbar; abgestimmt auf Adam T5V und T7V; Anschlüsse: 2x XLR Ein- und...

www.thomann.de

Now, if they do reach the low frequencies they say is a different matter and I lack the means to perform the required measurements. However, both brands' monitors have been tested here in ASR and got good scores. This is not necessarily a warranty that their tech sepcs are accurate but at least it might be worth a shot...

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes the first thing I did was to compare the FR, so, considering my speakers go from 50 Hz to 20 Khz, I thought of a subwoofer going down to 30 Hz might be a reasonable goal?
In this line of thought I found two studio subs around 400€ that seem fit to the task:

- KRK S10G4 (30 - 110 Hz)

KRK S10G4

KRK S10G4; Aktiver Studio Subwoofer 10"; Glas-Aramid-Verbundtieftöner; Frequenzbereich: 30 Hz - 110 Hz; max SPL: 117.2 dB; Class D Verstärker 160 Watt; SNR: 92 dB, Crossover Frequenz einstellbar; Bypass Funktion über optionalen Fußschalter; Schalter...

www.thomann.de

- Adam Audio T10s (28 Hz - 120 Hz)

ADAM Audio T10S

ADAM Audio T10S; Aktiver Subwoofer 10"; 130 Watt Class-D Verstärker; Frequenzbereich: 28 Hz - 120 Hz (-6 dB); Übergangsfrequenz: 80 Hz / 120 Hz / Bypass; Tiefpassfilter einstellbar; abgestimmt auf Adam T5V und T7V; Anschlüsse: 2x XLR Ein- und...

www.thomann.de

Now, if they do reach the low frequencies they say is a different matter and I lack the means to perform the required measurements. However, both brands' monitors have been tested here in ASR and got good scores. This is not necessarily a warranty that their tech sepcs are accurate but at least it might be worth a shot...

Keep in mind that 30-50Hz isn't even 1 octave. In other words, you aren't really buying much with that investment.
Can it make a difference? Certainly.
Is it guaranteed to be a good one? Well, this is where it gets trickier. ...And there is no simple answer, either.

 

[kemmler3D]

Personally I feel like 30hz is not a very good cutoff for a sub, especially since it's not specified how many decibels down it is at that freq. For 400 EUR you can probably do better, especially if you look for something secondhand. Between the 2 I'd definitely go with the Adam, simply because they actually specify it's -6dB vs. KRK's question mark of a spec.

 

[Deleted member 71304]

Personally I feel like 30hz is not a very good cutoff for a sub, especially since it's not specified how many decibels down it is at that freq. For 400 EUR you can probably do better, especially if you look for something secondhand. Between the 2 I'd definitely go with the Adam, simply because they actually specify it's -6dB vs. KRK's question mark of a spec.

Thank you!

 

[dasdoing]

they are all bad value.
you are better off getting an SVS and buying a separate pro-audio crossover.

 

[ryanosaur]

they are all bad value.

I kinda agree with this.

In between distractions... What is real life anyway but something that stops me from being on an Audio Forum?

@Sylvia , here's the kicker: I get being on a budget. I really do. Sadly, Subs are Budget Busters. Getting a Sub that doesn't do what you want, even though you might not know what that is, is a truly disheartening thing.

At the very least, with Subs, one of the biggest value points is getting something that performs beyond expected. What this translates to is being able to deliver clean and undistorted low frequencies. When Subs get a bad review, it is usually because they are not designed well, underpowered, and don't deliver on several fronts. In many instances it is not understood until you experience a Sub that is Distorting.
Subwoofer Distortion is the absolute worst. It isn't necessarily audible in and of itself. It manifests in things rattling and in sounding "loud," most often. Clean and linear Bass is actually quite subtle until suddenly it's not. (That latter point is often only experienced in HT, rarely on music.) There is a significant difference in the rattles caused by distortion and the rattles caused by low frequency sound waves.

Anyway, all of this is to say that good Bass is sometimes hard to come by. As I hinted above, it is not always budget friendly. If you have ever heard the saying, "buy once, cry once," then this is as good an example of the meaning as I can come up with.

Quickly, some things that matter with low frequencies...
Room size:
Not just what you define your listening space as, but what the total open-room volume is. A Sub behaves differently in a 2000cubic ft room than it does in a 5000 cu.ft room. Where Speakers are more directional in terms of how far away you sit, this is not quite true with Subs.
How much room you have to place the Sub and options where it can go:
With low frequencies, placement of the Sub can be a very big deal. Rooms are susceptible to what we call Modes... basically resonances... and depending on your space these can be very hard to predict and even more difficult in some cases to work around. You may stumble on references to buying multiple Subs in order to smooth out the Bass in-room. This is because multiple sources will excite those Modes differently and can help correct for them.
How you use it:
Home Theater and Music have different needs. In HT, you want something that can hit 16-18Hz for best effect. In music, you don't necessarily need that, but getting something to deliver low 20's is a good rule of thumb.
Neighbors.
Do you have shared walls or upstairs/downstairs neighbors? They might not appreciate a new toy like a Sub. Low Frequencies are quite powerful and can travel through walls and other boundaries. Dunno what it's like in Europe, but cars with loud Subs can be heard a mile away!

I know this is a lot. However, it is all part of the process for many. As I mentioned up front, doing some research and understanding your system and how the components interact is a big part of being successful. Buying an underpowered or poorly performing Sub can be heartbreaking, as well as budget breaking if you decide to replace it down the road. It's worth making certain you know what you are getting in to!

Hope this helps some.

 

[kemmler3D]

I kinda agree with this.

In between distractions... What is real life anyway but something that stops me from being on an Audio Forum?

@Sylvia , here's the kicker: I get being on a budget. I really do. Sadly, Subs are Budget Busters. Getting a Sub that doesn't do what you want, even though you might not know what that is, is a truly disheartening thing.

At the very least, with Subs, one of the biggest value points is getting something that performs beyond expected. What this translates to is being able to deliver clean and undistorted low frequencies. When Subs get a bad review, it is usually because they are not designed well, underpowered, and don't deliver on several fronts. In many instances it is not understood until you experience a Sub that is Distorting.
Subwoofer Distortion is the absolute worst. It isn't necessarily audible in and of itself. It manifests in things rattling and in sounding "loud," most often. Clean and linear Bass is actually quite subtle until suddenly it's not. (That latter point is often only experienced in HT, rarely on music.) There is a significant difference in the rattles caused by distortion and the rattles caused by low frequency sound waves.

Anyway, all of this is to say that good Bass is sometimes hard to come by. As I hinted above, it is not always budget friendly. If you have ever heard the saying, "buy once, cry once," then this is as good an example of the meaning as I can come up with.

Quickly, some things that matter with low frequencies...
Room size:
Not just what you define your listening space as, but what the total open-room volume is. A Sub behaves differently in a 2000cubic ft room than it does in a 5000 cu.ft room. Where Speakers are more directional in terms of how far away you sit, this is not quite true with Subs.
How much room you have to place the Sub and options where it can go:
With low frequencies, placement of the Sub can be a very big deal. Rooms are susceptible to what we call Modes... basically resonances... and depending on your space these can be very hard to predict and even more difficult in some cases to work around. You may stumble on references to buying multiple Subs in order to smooth out the Bass in-room. This is because multiple sources will excite those Modes differently and can help correct for them.
How you use it:
Home Theater and Music have different needs. In HT, you want something that can hit 16-18Hz for best effect. In music, you don't necessarily need that, but getting something to deliver low 20's is a good rule of thumb.
Neighbors.
Do you have shared walls or upstairs/downstairs neighbors? They might not appreciate a new toy like a Sub. Low Frequencies are quite powerful and can travel through walls and other boundaries. Dunno what it's like in Europe, but cars with loud Subs can be heard a mile away!

I know this is a lot. However, it is all part of the process for many. As I mentioned up front, doing some research and understanding your system and how the components interact is a big part of being successful. Buying an underpowered or poorly performing Sub can be heartbreaking, as well as budget breaking if you decide to replace it down the road. It's worth making certain you know what you are getting in to!

Hope this helps some.

Can confirm that clean low bass is really rare and changes your expectations once you hear it. I am not sure I had ever heard really clean, deep bass until I EQ'd my LCD-XC cans to crank out a bit more.

Normally bass is somewhere between distorted and really distorted. Prioritizing low distortion below 40hz can really change your POV on sound.

 

[czt]

Either one is good, some cheaper alternatives:

10” 150 W STUDIO SUBWOOFER – Eikon-Audio

www.eikon-audio.com

ESI - aktiv 10s

aktiv 10s - Powered Studio Monitoring Subwoofer

www.esi-audio.com

 

[Deleted member 71304]

I kinda agree with this.

In between distractions... What is real life anyway but something that stops me from being on an Audio Forum?

@Sylvia , here's the kicker: I get being on a budget. I really do. Sadly, Subs are Budget Busters. Getting a Sub that doesn't do what you want, even though you might not know what that is, is a truly disheartening thing.

At the very least, with Subs, one of the biggest value points is getting something that performs beyond expected. What this translates to is being able to deliver clean and undistorted low frequencies. When Subs get a bad review, it is usually because they are not designed well, underpowered, and don't deliver on several fronts. In many instances it is not understood until you experience a Sub that is Distorting.
Subwoofer Distortion is the absolute worst. It isn't necessarily audible in and of itself. It manifests in things rattling and in sounding "loud," most often. Clean and linear Bass is actually quite subtle until suddenly it's not. (That latter point is often only experienced in HT, rarely on music.) There is a significant difference in the rattles caused by distortion and the rattles caused by low frequency sound waves.

Anyway, all of this is to say that good Bass is sometimes hard to come by. As I hinted above, it is not always budget friendly. If you have ever heard the saying, "buy once, cry once," then this is as good an example of the meaning as I can come up with.

Quickly, some things that matter with low frequencies...
Room size:
Not just what you define your listening space as, but what the total open-room volume is. A Sub behaves differently in a 2000cubic ft room than it does in a 5000 cu.ft room. Where Speakers are more directional in terms of how far away you sit, this is not quite true with Subs.
How much room you have to place the Sub and options where it can go:
With low frequencies, placement of the Sub can be a very big deal. Rooms are susceptible to what we call Modes... basically resonances... and depending on your space these can be very hard to predict and even more difficult in some cases to work around. You may stumble on references to buying multiple Subs in order to smooth out the Bass in-room. This is because multiple sources will excite those Modes differently and can help correct for them.
How you use it:
Home Theater and Music have different needs. In HT, you want something that can hit 16-18Hz for best effect. In music, you don't necessarily need that, but getting something to deliver low 20's is a good rule of thumb.
Neighbors.
Do you have shared walls or upstairs/downstairs neighbors? They might not appreciate a new toy like a Sub. Low Frequencies are quite powerful and can travel through walls and other boundaries. Dunno what it's like in Europe, but cars with loud Subs can be heard a mile away!

I know this is a lot. However, it is all part of the process for many. As I mentioned up front, doing some research and understanding your system and how the components interact is a big part of being successful. Buying an underpowered or poorly performing Sub can be heartbreaking, as well as budget breaking if you decide to replace it down the road. It's worth making certain you know what you are getting in to!

Hope this helps some.

This helps quite a lot, I'll read on acoustics and room correction for a while before purchasing anything

 

[Deleted member 71304]

Can confirm that clean low bass is really rare and changes your expectations once you hear it. I am not sure I had ever heard really clean, deep bass until I EQ'd my LCD-XC cans to crank out a bit more.

Normally bass is somewhere between distorted and really distorted. Prioritizing low distortion below 40hz can really change your POV on sound.

Great to know, thanks - once again, learning a bit before wasting money seems the best option... I'll start with room measurement and go on from there...

 

[Deleted member 71304]

Either one is good, some cheaper alternatives:

10” 150 W STUDIO SUBWOOFER – Eikon-Audio

www.eikon-audio.com

ESI - aktiv 10s

aktiv 10s - Powered Studio Monitoring Subwoofer

www.esi-audio.com

That is very kind of you, thank you

 

[dasdoing]

is there really no CPU in the system? I mean, nowadays everybody has a chip in the chain. if so, do the crossover digitally.

EDIT: ok, you probably have a stereo DAC. this solution needs more channels

 

[SuicideSquid]

Personally I feel like 30hz is not a very good cutoff for a sub, especially since it's not specified how many decibels down it is at that freq. For 400 EUR you can probably do better, especially if you look for something secondhand. Between the 2 I'd definitely go with the Adam, simply because they actually specify it's -6dB vs. KRK's question mark of a spec.

Depends what it's intended for. There's not a lot of musical content in most genres below 30Hz so if you're flat to 30Hz and then have a sharp dropoff, in practice for music (unless you're listening to some crazy pipe organ nonsense or something) it's going to cover everything.