Apple TV 3rd Gen Question

[Blumlein 88]

That is the ALAC file format. Apple Music Lossless streaming is not the same thing.

Music (app) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I see that now, and Apple could certainly update that info so it is not so obscure. I didn't realize Apple Music wasn't possible on the earlier Apple TV.

 

[sarumbear]

I see that now, and Apple could certainly update that info so it is not so obscure. I didn't realize Apple Music wasn't possible on the earlier Apple TV.

Apple built an empire based on obscurity

You buy the device Apple tells you to and don’t try to be clever. If you try, they will make sure you fail.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Apple built an empire based on obscurity

You buy the device Apple tells you to and don’t try to be clever. If you try, they will make sure you fail.

Yes, that is the main reason I've never bought into the Apple ecosystem.

 

[NiagaraPete]

Apple built an empire based on obscurity

You buy the device Apple tells you to and don’t try to be clever. If you try, they will make sure you fail.

But Apple Music was available on that device and still is.

 

[sarumbear]

Yes, that is the main reason I've never bought into the Apple ecosystem.

I was the same but first iPad then iPhone made me accept them. Still Windows on desktop though.

 

[NiagaraPete]

But Apple Music was available on that device and still is.

HOLD it I could be wrong on that. It may be iTunes. I'll get my kids and know for sure.

 

[Mat]

It supports Lossless, just not Hi-Res. Full stop.

Support page provided was for the Apple Music app's casting function, not about Lossless audio in general. And ALAC of course stands for 'Apple Lossless'.

You can play the Lossless audio and send it from the system output, though. AirPlay via the source operating system is usually capped at 44.1k and the ATV then upsamples to 48k for either HDMI or optical output. I think the ATV 3rd gen app is a mix of Music and iTunes, but it was broken for me, like they just abandoned it.

 

[sarumbear]

It supports Lossless, just not Hi-Res. Full stop.

I thought anything above 44.1kHz is called Hi-Res?

 

[deweydm]

No lossless setting available for the Apple Music app on the ATV3, or the ATV4 HD. Seems silly, but… <shrug>

And I think Apple Music is still down sampling lossless to 256kbps AAC over airplay2 from iOS. You can stream Apple Music lossless over airplay1 though. Basing those assertions on https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits-and-bytes/apple-music-lossless-mess-part-2-airplay-r1026/ .

More often than not I use Apple Music lossless from an iPhone or iPad with the CCK USB dongle connected to a Schiit Modi3+ DAC, but also some times stream AM over airplay1 to an ATV3 connected to optical on the DAC. No display on the DAC, so I can’t confirm it’s actually receiving 44.1kHz/16-bit, but I can’t discern a difference in quality between airplay1 with the ATV3 or USB, so it’s good enough for me. Though I am now curious if the ATV3 is up sampling to 48kHz over optical too. Guess I should have bought a DAC that displays the properties of the source.

 

[Mat]

I thought anything above 44.1kHz is called Hi-Res?

anything above 48k (which is considered DVD quality)

Technically the ATV receives 41 and then upsamples to 48 since its merging that audio into the main audio-video out for HDMI

Though I am now curious if the ATV3 is up sampling to 48kHz over optical too. Guess I should have bought a DAC that displays the properties of the source.

should be the same audio stream. I have both the hdmi and optical going into my DAC and toggle the inputs, just stays at 48k on the display

 

[Haskil]

anything above 48k (which is considered DVD quality)

Technically the ATV receives 41 and then upsamples to 48 since its merging that audio into the main audio-video out for HDMI



should be the same audio stream. I have both the hdmi and optical going into my DAC and toggle the inputs, just stays at 48k on the display

Anything above 16 bit... 24/48 is HR. R = bits.

 

[Mat]

Anything above 16 bit... 24/48 is HR. R = bits.

Not by Apple's definition...

 

[Haskil]

Not by Apple's definition...

View attachment 218542

Apple is definitively in his own world…

Résolution : is bit and nothing else… 24 bit is Hifh Resolution…

 

[Mat]

Apple is definitively in his own world…

Résolution : is bit and nothing else… 24 bit is Hifh Resolution…

In your world, maybe.

 

[Haskil]

In your world, maybe.

Ha ha ha !

 

[sarumbear]

Not by Apple's definition...

View attachment 218542

According to Apple’s menu description, Hi-Res can be anything below 24-bit/192kHz

 

[hexbin]

Thanks. Apple is quite cryptic in their docs. Turns out my son has one so we're going to test it before I try to find one.

Were you able to test ? I have the same question whether apple ALAC lossless(16-bit/44.1khz) or hires lossless (24bit/192khz) is streamed through the following setups .

1. Apple Music Iphone 10 Airplay >> Apple TV 3rg gen A1469 (OS ver 7.9) Toslink >> PS audio sprout 100 optical (toslink) input >> Elac Speakers
2. Apple Music Iphone 10 >> Lighting to USB A >> USB A>> USB B >> >> PS audio sprout 100 USB B input >> Elac Speakers

Anyone with a DAC with the bit rate display would be very useful to verify .

Thank you !

 

[Mat]

Were you able to test ? I have the same question whether apple ALAC lossless(16-bit/44.1khz) or hires lossless (24bit/192khz) is streamed through the following setups .

1. Apple Music Iphone 10 Airplay >> Apple TV 3rg gen A1469 (OS ver 7.9) Toslink >> PS audio sprout 100 optical (toslink) input >> Elac Speakers

Airplay transmits 16/44. Apple TV outputs 16/48.

 

[trl]

Apple stopped providing the toslink output after 3rg gen. I thought that was strange but Apple does as Apple wants. It just made me wonder if that toslink might provide hi res lossless.

Exactly what Google did with Chromecast devices.
However, in the end it's there loss, not ours; at least me I'll purchase in the future a streaming device compatible with all streaming formats, AirPlay 2 included.

 

[trl]

Hi,

Does anyone know if Apple TV 3rd (the one with a toslink output) supports Apple Music lossless?

Thanks

I'm probably late to the party, but I was just tested this model and it works fine. My tests were conducted to 48kHz and I was able to get a SINAD of 102dB which is quite decent for an obsolete Apple device: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tion-airplay-measurements-over-toslink.40722/.