Anyone else with "reference" gear and "collecting" gear?

[AlexHempel]

Hello ASR,

I feel like one major issue audiophiles have with the "objectivist" approach to evaluating gear is it spoils some of the fun factor associated with chasing new equipment. After all, this hobby is a collecting hobby for many; people like searching for the newest tweak or upgrade to enhance their system and accumulating rare and attractive gear. Of course, this does not describe everyone -- I'm sure there are some who get their system set up to their liking and then leave it. But I have a feeling they are in the minority.

Objectivism takes away some of the mystique and appeal of collecting audio gear because it creates a clear end point if you assume that good measured performance is the goal. Why bother obsessing over gear when you can just buy some NC400s, Modulus, an AHB2 etc., one of dozens of excellent DACs, decent generic cables, and good speakers with appropriate room treatment? After all, any improvement in amplifier or DAC beyond what the current cutting-edge offers is probably inaudible in most cases. This creates an issue for audiophiles who claim they are chasing the most accurate sound reproduction but actually just want to buy new gear or gear that doesn't measure very well.

I personally enjoy the collecting electronics aspect of the hobby as much as the music reproduction, so I had a similar dilemma. In fact, I started with NC400s back when they first launched, and yet I love restoring vintage amplifiers more than anything. My solution has been to keep the NC400s and my trusty SMSL SU-8 as a "reference" system for when I want to hear music reproduced cleanly and accurately.

Then I have another rotation of vintage gear that I own because it looks cool, has some interesting history, has sentimental value because I spent dozens of hours working on it, etc. I'm almost certain most of this gear measures poorly, but the distortion can be pleasant in some circumstances. In fact, I actively seek out stuff that measures exceptionally bad (like 40s tube amplifiers or weird SS) because I like hearing something different than my NC400s. So I don't view it as measuring "badly" so much as just adding a fun, if ultimately inaccurate, coloration.

Anyways, I'm sure there are many others like me, not claiming to have any profound insights here. But I am curious how other ASR users balance objectivism with a desire to continue collecting gear after reaching the measured performance endgame.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I don't see why an objective understanding of the performance of equipment should necessarily impact the collecting aspect. I mean there's lots of gear at every price point that measures well. Seems like there's enough good gear out there to collect without having to add bad gear to the collection. But there's also nothing stopping someone from buying gear just because it looks cool if that's what they want. The problem is when that gear is sold on the basis that it does wondrous things to the sound quality that it probably doesn't actually do...

 

[AlexHempel]

Sure, but my perspective is, what's the point of buying an AHB2 if I already have NC400s? Realistically, there is no chance I could tell the difference in an AB test. If I'm going to buy new gear, I would prefer vintage gear with some interesting distortion so that it sounds different. Of course, if others enjoy collecting a bunch of good-measuring gear, that is cool too -- just not my cup of tea.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Sure, but my perspective is, what's the point of buying an AHB2 if I already have NC400s? Realistically, there is no chance I could tell the difference in an AB test. If I'm going to buy new gear, I would prefer vintage gear with some interesting distortion so that it sounds different. Of course, if others enjoy collecting a bunch of good-measuring gear, that is cool too -- just not my cup of tea.

well, if there's something about the AHB2 you like then get it.

If you prefer vintage gear that has distortion so it sounds different great. Just don't come on the forums here claiming that it's "more accurate...a better, more authentic reproduction...full of richness and musicality you can't get from some not-similarly-distorted gear"

We like good-measuring gear because it also happens to be good-sounding gear.

 

[AlexHempel]

My account may be new, but I've been reading ASR for many years. I'm not going to make any unscientific claims about tube gear or vintage gear. Of course, there are plenty of measurement-supported reasons people might think gear with distortion has richness and musicality that good-measuring gear doesn't. After all, those are entirely subjective terms.

In my view objectivism doesn't have to be solely the pursuit of the best-measuring gear. It can also be used to create a rigorous understanding of why certain poorly measuring gear can sound appealing to certain listeners.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I'm not sure there's any real debate about why certain poorly measuring gear might sound appealing to certain listeners. It really all depends what your after. For most of us here, the goal is accuracy. We are trying to put together a system that doesn't alter what is hard-coded into the source recording. Distortion can sound awesome. I play guitar. Love distortion. But I don't want a distortion pedal that can't be turned off in my audio chain. Objectivism isn't really about finding the best measuring gear. It's about finding a way to achieve actual sonic benefits that aren't just based on unreliable subjective impressions that can be subject to all sorts of bias having nothing to do with actual sound quality...

 

[egellings]

I have an attachment to a home made all-out two-box effort of a vacuum tube preamplifier that I call Earl Gellings: His Reference. You pronounce the word 'colon' at the punctuation mark. The 'I made it myself' effect seems to amplify my appreciation of it. I do have to add that it not a euphonic or colored sounding preamp at all, and it would not do too shabbily in a preamp shoot-out. There's likely a 'My little Fi-Fi' effect at work there, making it sound better than it actually does.

 

[BDWoody]

In my view objectivism doesn't have to be solely the pursuit of the best-measuring gear.

It's about understanding, not about deciding what must then be best for us.

Then I have another rotation of vintage gear that I own because it looks cool, has some interesting history, has sentimental value because I spent dozens of hours working on it, etc.

My most recent purchase.

It isn't in pursuit of chart topping SINAD specs. It's also not some expensive collectible. It's just a decent older preamp with both MM and MC inputs, all the appropriate controls for a TT pre, and thought would look cool with one on each side. It's certainly good enough for vinyl. I will plug a CCA into it and turn it into a streamer/Roon endpoint.

Point is... Get what you like and want in your house. It's a sensual hobby. Enjoy that aspect in whatever way you want to.

I have a range of systems from a JBL 708P based theater to some older Preamps and turntables with separate amps and speakers. They all have their place.

It's almost like people feel ashamed if they aren't unhappy with their older McIntosh or Accuphase because it's probably only x SINAD.

I just say send them my way. It's some cool shit.

 

[pozz]

It's a sensual hobby.

That it is...

 

[thewas]

I like and have also both, mind you I rather like collecting vintage hifi that also measured good for its time (and often even does even with today's standards).

 

[Wes]

Objectivism adds to the mystique and appeal of collecting audio gear because it creates a clear end point that you can focus your search for vintage gear on.

 

[watchnerd]

Yep, I have some old collectible gear.

 

[egellings]

If you like the way it looks and how it tickles your nun-handles, you're in!

 

[watchnerd]

nun-handles

Well, that's new one for me.

 

[egellings]

Nun-handles, as in " Young man, you're going to the principal's office, right now!".

 

[Ron Texas]

@BDWoody Luxman gear definitely gets a lot of love.

 

[watchnerd]

Nun-handles, as in " Young man, you're going to the principal's office, right now!".

 

[watchnerd]

It's about understanding, not about deciding what must then be best for us.



My most recent purchase.

View attachment 103736


It isn't in pursuit of chart topping SINAD specs. It's also not some expensive collectible. It's just a decent older preamp with both MM and MC inputs, all the appropriate controls for a TT pre, and thought would look cool with one on each side. It's certainly good enough for vinyl. I will plug a CCA into it and turn it into a streamer/Roon endpoint.

Point is... Get what you like and want in your house. It's a sensual hobby. Enjoy that aspect in whatever way you want to.

I have a range of systems from a JBL 708P based theater to some older Preamps and turntables with separate amps and speakers. They all have their place.

It's almost like people feel ashamed if they aren't unhappy with their older McIntosh or Accuphase because it's probably only x SINAD.

I just say send them my way. It's some cool shit.

Where did you find this guy?

 

[egellings]

The nunchucks or the nun chucks: which is deadlier?

 

[BDWoody]

Where did you find this guy?

That little C120a? He was hiding out in his original box with manual and warranty paperwork... That was another local Craigslist find.

Not sure what I could find in something new for the relatively small amount these things go for (Hundreds of $$...not thousands).
I don't know that it's seen much use... The knobs and switches feel like they are supposed to, and it just functions beautifully.

One of my good friends was up visiting this past weekend and I had the Kenwood 880DII with the VM540 and the SL-10 with the 310MC on either side of it, switching back and forth from album to album.

It sounded great, was fun to play with, and a proper preamp like that has it's place in a setup like mine.