Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[nathan]

What do you think about the fact that the digital inputs were not functional at all? Could that influence other measurements? Surely it raises question about the overall condition of the unit.

“Question”?

It raises a conclusion: It is a broken unit. Can you imagine if all their units were designed to not accept spdif content on the spdif inputs? That would be absurd.

 

[Newman]

It is a broken unit. Can you imagine if all their units were designed to not accept spdif content on the spdif inputs? That would be absurd.

I searched the review post for any mention of this, found nothing.

 

[Newman]

(no words, just a cross reference)

I said, “That (-115 dB being the necessary ‘safe’ threshold of inaudibility) is one of the more unbelievable claims I have seen here. Probably based on some self-inflating number-escalating logic, not backed up in the least by any evidence of anyone detecting, say, -110 dB.”.

Amir in your quote said, “-115 dB. This is 0.0001778. Anything less and you are in gray area, requiring psychoacoustics analysis.”.

Confirmed.

 

[nathan]

I searched the review post for any mention of this, found nothing.

Here’s what I see, below, from our host.

I’m of the opinion that if I had a unit with these problems, I would get it repaired under warranty. If a company considers this not broken, I’d reverse the charge on my credit card for my purchase of said unit.

But upon reflection you have a point. A reasonable person may consider this kind of stuff to be acceptable. I’m just not one of them.

I could not get the unit to output anything when using either Toslink or Coax. It would recognize those inputs and tell me it was receiving PCM signal but the output was basically noise.

I just checked and for both analog and HDMI input the mode button says, "None." For some reason, setup button no longer brings up the menus.

 

[Newman]

There will always be samples of a product with defects in need of fixing. Any brand. Not a basis for purchase decisions.

The issue is, as you say, whether the company considers it not broken.

cheers

 

[PierreV]

That is one of the more unbelievable claims I have seen here. Probably based on some self-inflating number-escalating logic, not backed up in the least by any evidence of anyone detecting, say, -110 dB.

No one will detect noise at that level, especially in normal rooms with at least some levels of background noise. Even less so if the content is dynamic: our ears will not pick up a very low signal if they have just picked a loud one a moment before.

AFAIC, at least in the DAC -> preamp -> amp chain, this is more an issue of safety margins around gain and recording issues. One will probably not have to worry about a bit of noise in a compressed, near peaking modern pop/rock recording. But things may turn a bit sour with a high DR recording, especially high DR classical recordings that usually peak much lower to begin with.

The only somewhat noisy amplifiers I own are a bit old, intrinsically more noisy ones: they are perfectly fine for a lot of things but, when I listen to Gorecki third symphony and want immersion from the very hush start building up to full bloom the noise is unbearable...

 

[lovemusic]

So as a layman music lover and not a tech geek, I'm trying to digest what this means. AVM60 was loved by consumers, but doesn't measure well.

So is the measurement off? Or does this level of measurement is good enough for the average human ear?

The other possibility is the product is poor, but given the independent positive reviews from multiple users; that probability is small.

 

[Doodski]

So is the measurement off?

The measurement is right on.

Or does this level of measurement is good enough for the average human ear?

For some this will be good enough but why settle for a poorly measuring product when there is better to be had?

The other possibility is the product is poor, but given the independent positive reviews from multiple users; that probability is small.

Many people are in love with their gear. That doesn't mean the gear is good or measures good in tests.

 

[symphara]

So as a layman music lover and not a tech geek, I'm trying to digest what this means. AVM60 was loved by consumers, but doesn't measure well.

So is the measurement off? Or does this level of measurement is good enough for the average human ear?

The other possibility is the product is poor, but given the independent positive reviews from multiple users; that probability is small.

Many reasons.

(1) ARC could genuinely be good, and better than the mass-market solutions (Audyssey, YPAO, MCACC)
(2) people don't care that much about a little noise
(3) people can't actually tell the difference between HD audio and just-about-CD-quality audio anyway
(4) people don't actually open the device to look at the mediocre components and engineering
(5) people don't care that the XLR connectors are just for show, being the equivalent of using cheap RCA-XLR adaptors; "hey, it's balanced!"
(6) there could be some "us against the world" thing going on with a boutique brand; buy it and you're special; you have a tribe, and once you have a tribe, what your tribe does is good, hence the product is good
(7) the product is expensive, so it should be good, and for sure, it's much more comforting to think that you got value for money instead of having been taken for a ride

Consumers have plenty of reasons to like the things they already bought. And most "professional" audio reviews out there are terrible and count for little more than opinion and product placement. The huge majority are positive too.

 

[Nathan Raymond]

Blue used to be a substitute for white LEDs because they were not yet invented. Maybe that is the reason it is still associated with "high-end."

LEDs were limited to red or green for a long time. Mass produced bright blue LEDs were perfected in the early 1990s (the 2014 Nobel prize for physics went to Isamu Akasaki, Hiroshi Amano and Shuji Nakamura for the invention) and were initially a great novelty. Now they are mundane, but there seems to be a persistent association in some circles that they are "premium". History buffs may want to read about how the first blue LED was actually invented in 1972 at RCA:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk...evolution/rcas-forgotten-work-on-the-blue-led

 

[lovemusic]

(2) people don't care that much about a little noise
(3) people can't actually tell the difference between HD audio and just-about-CD-quality audio anyway
(4) people don't actually open the device to look at the mediocre components and engineering
(5) people don't care that the XLR connectors are just for show, being the equivalent of using cheap RCA-XLR adaptors; "hey, it's balanced!"

I have always maintained electronics rank much lower in order of importance. Room and speakers being at the top, but this is Gold!

 

[RichB]

LEDs were limited to red or green for a long time. Mass produced bright blue LEDs were perfected in the early 1990s (the 2014 Nobel prize for physics went to Isamu Akasaki, Hiroshi Amano and Shuji Nakamura for the invention) and were initially a great novelty. Now they are mundane, but there seems to be a persistent association in some circles that they are "premium". History buffs may want to read about how the first blue LED was actually invented in 1972 at RCA:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk...evolution/rcas-forgotten-work-on-the-blue-led

That is interesting. I like blue and luckily, the AHB2 are RMC-1 both use them.
For monochrome OLED displays, I prefer white.

- Rich

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Weren't the first white LEDs (especially cheap ones) blue LEDs with a phosphorous layer on top?
True white requires an RGB LED array.

Personally I am fond of blue light. Especially when it comes to computer case illumination. Always reminds me of Cherenkov radiation.
For displays I have to read: yeah, white is king. Or bright green.

 

[Mkaram]

Weren't the first white LEDs (especially cheap ones) blue LEDs with a phosphorous layer on top?
True white requires an RGB LED array.

Personally I am fond of blue light. Especially when it comes to computer case illumination. Always reminds me of Cherenkov radiation.
For displays I have to read: yeah, white is king. Or bright green.

All white LEDs use something like a combination of multiple colors or a phosphor because there is no "white" light localized on the EM spectrum. White is only how our eyes perceive certain combinations of light colors.

 

[Bear123]

So as a layman music lover and not a tech geek, I'm trying to digest what this means. AVM60 was loved by consumers, but doesn't measure well.

So is the measurement off? Or does this level of measurement is good enough for the average human ear?

The other possibility is the product is poor, but given the independent positive reviews from multiple users; that probability is small.

The "poor" measurement might mean that someone with perfect hearing could theoretically detect something in a dead silent anechoic chamber using headphones and a non real world test condition.

Or, perhaps it would sound audibly transparent to 99.9% of the population including those proclaiming the unit to be garbage based on "bad" measurements, and those same folks wouldn't be able to tell it apart from a SOTA -120 dB SINAD setup.

Or, maybe it really is horribad and the .003% SINAD would make things sound like an old transistor radio and no one would be able to stand listening to it.

Another possibility is that almost no one would be able to tell the difference between this and -120 dB gear, but its overpriced for its level of performance compared to a $900 Denon AVR.

 

[Spocko]

"High-end" processors very often do not include performance specifications, apparently, for a reason.
"Cinema immersion" and not signal purity sounds like marketing obscuring the lack of design hygiene.

The need for purity, also known as SINAD, is greater for the front 3 channels where most of the sound occurs.
Attenuation only increases this requirement.

Perhaps, the HT experience with multiple speakers firing and video so distracts the listener to make them less discerning but that does not excuse products costing thousands or tens of thousands from a "purity" standard and the dearth of meaningful specifications.

- Rich

Could not agree more about this! It's one thing to listen to music with your eyes closed (or in the dark) but something like Rogue One or Infinity War with flashing lights, loud booming bass, and action that captivates your visual attention - your hearing is literally attenuated so you can focus on the fast moving fight scenes - so how does one distinguish which is the "pure signal" sound of a laser shot and which isn't?

So visually impactful movies attenuate your hearing - unless you close your eyes and only listen to the effects?

 

[RichB]

Could not agree more about this! It's one thing to listen to music with your eyes closed (or in the dark) but something like Rogue One or Infinity War with flashing lights, loud booming bass, and action that captivates your visual attention - your hearing is literally attenuated so you can focus on the fast moving fight scenes - so how does one distinguish which is the "pure signal" sound of a laser shot and which isn't?

So visually impactful movies attenuate your hearing - unless you close your eyes and only listen to the effects?

After enough bombardment, my ears can ring.

- Rich

 

[Spocko]

After enough bombardment, my ears can ring.

- Rich

I hate to say it, my ears are still ringing - too many loud clubs and rock concerts in my youth

 

[DuncanTodd]

For some this will be good enough but why settle for a poorly measuring product when there is better to be had?

Yup. Only in the AVP category, I believe every single one of them came out short in the measurements...MP, JBL, Anthem, Arcam. Maybe varying level of failure but still failure. Some may have been improved in some aspects with firmware updates since.
I guess given the above, the way to go is a Denon AVR used as an AVP, but you don't have much variations if you want something that doesn't use Audy. MRX 1120 got a pass for not being broken, I guess that's the other alternative. Or maybe the new Anthems improved over the previous ones?

 

[DuncanTodd]

Another possibility is that almost no one would be able to tell the difference between this and -120 dB gear, but its overpriced for its level of performance compared to a $900 Denon AVR.

The most likely possibility. The only hurdle in that case if one absolutely insists he has to have ARC and not Audy.