Amp recommendation for DT 1990 & HD 800(S)!

[Incantator]

Hello, I currently own a DT 990 250 ohm version, but had a chance to listen to DT 1990 and HD 800(S) recently (among many others), and I really liked them. I was able to use HDV 820 amp at that time, and I noticed that the bass became more vivid even at a very low volume, as if the distance between the bass and the mid got narrowed down. I found that a powerful amp tends to increase the low end response, and I found a lot of technical information on this forum, so I decided to ask a question here!

I wish I could get an amp for DT 1990 & HD 800(S) which would do the same job as HDV 820 has done; increasing the low ends comparatively to the mids. I usually listen to quite a low volume; I usually listen to DT 990 with volume 5 to 11, so the volume itself is not a problem. I was thinking of getting Schiit's product, Magni 3 seems reasonable, but Jotunheim seems to be crushed by a knowledgeable reviewer here, so I wanted to get some recommendations. Will EQing work fine for my purpose? Will something like Magni 3 work just fine?

Any recommendations or advice would be recommended!

 

[helloworld]

well, massdrop thx 789.......take a look at the new review.

 

[Incantator]

well, massdrop thx 789.......take a look at the new review.

I haven't used massdrop before and it is out of order... How much did it cost anyway?

 

[helloworld]

I haven't used massdrop before and it is out of order... How much did it cost anyway?

$349

 

[Incantator]

$349

Well, if I'm gonna buy the two headphones I guess I can afford that much... if it can really improve the sound (base, in particular). Thanks for your recommendation!

 

[solderdude]

Bass levels will not differ between amps at the same SPL.
Most amps are equally 'flat' from 20Hz upwards so can't have more bass.
The amount perceived amount of bass relative to the mids (and treble) depends on listening level. (see Fletcher Munson)

Chances are you listened to the headphones at a higher SPL than you may have realized.
This can happen very easily. A different gain, a different taper in the volume control, a different DAC output level can all result in a different volpot position which gives powerful 'suggestions' about amp capabilities. Having to turn up the volpot on an amp a bit further suggests the unsuspecting listener the amp is 'wimpy' for instance.

Also output resistance can cause higher bass levels. The HDV820 most likely isn't close to 0 Ohm but is much lower than 120 Ohm so the amount of extra bass as a result of voltage division is likely less than 0.5dB with both heaphones. (I measured about +1dB bass at 120 Ohm for both HP's)

Buy an amp that can reach at least 100mW into 300 Ohm, the HDV820 reaches 1W.
Don't look at 'max. power' ratings in say 32 Ohm or without any impedances mentioned as they say absolutely nothing about the output power at 300 Ohm.

Use EQ if you want more bass. Both headphones react positively to it. I highly recommend to EQ the HD800 in the bass. You seem to prefer elevated treble (both HD800S and DT1990 have this) so recommend not to EQ the treble in YOUR case. I EQ both in the treble as well but am allergic to elevated treble.

 

[Incantator]

Bass levels will not differ between amps at the same SPL.
Most amps are equally 'flat' from 20Hz upwards so can't have more bass.
The amount perceived amount of bass relative to the mids (and treble) depends on listening level. (see Fletcher Munson)

Chances are you listened to the headphones at a higher SPL than you may have realized.
This can happen very easily. A different gain, a different taper in the volume control, a different DAC output level can all result in a different volpot position which gives powerful 'suggestions' about amp capabilities. Having to turn up the volpot on an amp a bit further suggests the unsuspecting listener the amp is 'wimpy' for instance.

Also output resistance can cause higher bass levels. The HDV820 most likely isn't close to 0 Ohm but is much lower than 120 Ohm so the amount of extra bass as a result of voltage division is likely less than 0.5dB with both heaphones. (I measured about +1dB bass at 120 Ohm for both HP's)

Buy an amp that can reach at least 100mW into 300 Ohm, the HDV820 reaches 1W.
Don't look at 'max. power' ratings in say 32 Ohm or without any impedances mentioned as they say absolutely nothing about the output power at 300 Ohm.

Use EQ if you want more bass. Both headphones react positively to it. I highly recommend to EQ the HD800 in the bass. You seem to prefer elevated treble (both HD800S and DT1990 have this) so recommend not to EQ the treble in YOUR case. I EQ both in the treble as well but am allergic to elevated treble.

Thank you for your reply! There were so many to digest, and I sincerely appreciate that. I have some questions though:

1. Can I understand SPL as 'volume'? I've searched for it but I couldn't quite understand it.
2. Would I need such an amp for my purpose? It seems like you're alluding that EQing will be enough.

 

[Patrick1958]

Violectric amp are powerful and especially the HPA V100 is neutral :

http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers/hpa-v100

 

[Peib]

I am waiting for the new Topping A50 amplifier.

Consider to buy topping a30 which is very good too and amir has reviewed. However, if I were u, i would wait till a50 release. They said it will release by the end of the year

 

[andreasmaaan]

1. Can I understand SPL as 'volume'? I've searched for it but I couldn't quite understand it.

SPL is an objective measure of the pressure of a soundwave at a point in space.

Volume (or more technically, "loudness") is a subjective measure of how loud something sounds.

The two are related, but not linearly. Put simply, as SPL increases, the (perceived) volume of lower and higher frequencies increases in relation to the (perceived) volume of mid frequencies.

This is because the human auditory system is not linear in this regard.

To make it even more confusing, the "volume" control on a typical amplifier affects not the (perceived) volume but rather the (objective) SPL.

However, for everyday purposes you can think of SPL as the same thing as volume.

 

[solderdude]

1. Can I understand SPL as 'volume'? I've searched for it but I couldn't quite understand it.

yes, S.P.L. is 'Sound Pressure Level' and thus how loud someting plays. Volume is a commonly used word but being technical minded 'volume' is a word I have more or less reserved for 'the amount of space something takes up'.

2. Would I need such an amp for my purpose? It seems like you're alluding that EQing will be enough.

Yes, most certainly when EQ'ing as you need more voltage to accommodate for the increased level of lower frequencies.

100mW in 300 Ohm is what you need if you want to play the HD800(S) loud while EQ'ed.
It seems when doing basic calculations that you can reach very high SPL but these seemingly high levels in SPL are not the average SPL levels at all.

 

[Incantator]

Violectric amp are powerful and especially the HPA V100 is neutral :

http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers/hpa-v100

Thanks for the recommendation, but I think that's too expensive for me... At this point I'd rather buy several headphones for that price.

I am waiting for the new Topping A50 amplifier.

Consider to buy topping a30 which is very good too and amir has reviewed. However, if I were u, i would wait till a50 release. They said it will release by the end of the year

Hey, thanks! That amp seems reasonable.

SPL is an objective measure of the pressure of a soundwave at a point in space.

Volume (or more technically, "loudness") is a subjective measure of how loud something sounds.

The two are related, but not linearly. Put simply, as SPL increases, the (perceived) volume of lower and higher frequencies increases in relation to the (perceived) volume of mid frequencies.

This is because the human auditory system is not linear in this regard.

To make it even more confusing, the "volume" control on a typical amplifier affects not the (perceived) volume but rather the (objective) SPL.

However, for everyday purposes you can think of SPL as the same thing as volume.

You made everything clear; thanks for your explanation!

yes, S.P.L. is 'Sound Pressure Level' and thus how loud someting plays. Volume is a commonly used word but being technical minded 'volume' is a word I have more or less reserved for 'the amount of space something takes up'.



Yes, most certainly when EQ'ing as you need more voltage to accommodate for the increased level of lower frequencies.

100mW in 300 Ohm is what you need if you want to play the HD800(S) loud while EQ'ed.
It seems when doing basic calculations that you can reach very high SPL but these seemingly high levels in SPL are not the average SPL levels at all.

I'm kind of thinking that my recent computer's motherboard (ASrock B450M) might just do fine since I usually listen in low volume. I mean I listening with DT990 at such a low volume already.
[Edited] Well I noticed that I go up to something like 20 when I like the music or when the music isn't loud enough...

 

[mokoaguswan]

I use the HDVD800 with my HD800S in balanced mode. After comparing with a few high end amps, this one suits it best

 

[JJB70]

Do you need more volume? Is there a problem with the sound quality of the headphone output you are currently using? If the answer to either or both of those questions is yes then get a headphone amp, if not then you really need not bother. There are plenty of decent affordable headphones amps from companies like Topping and Smsl, if you want the comfort of a more familiar name then the Arcam rhead can be found for low prices and in many ways the Jds O2 remains probably as good as most people need. If you want something a bit pricier then Lake People (parent of Violectric) make some excellent units and recently I was very impressed by the Rupert Neve headphone amp.

 

[Incantator]

I use the HDVD800 with my HD800S in balanced mode. After comparing with a few high end amps, this one suits it best

Well, that's an expensive amp...

Do you need more volume? Is there a problem with the sound quality of the headphone output you are currently using? If the answer to either or both of those questions is yes then get a headphone amp, if not then you really need not bother. There are plenty of decent affordable headphones amps from companies like Topping and Smsl, if you want the comfort of a more familiar name then the Arcam rhead can be found for low prices and in many ways the Jds O2 remains probably as good as most people need. If you want something a bit pricier then Lake People (parent of Violectric) make some excellent units and recently I was very impressed by the Rupert Neve headphone amp.

Thanks! I think I'd just go with the headphones first and then see if I need an amp. I mean I'm not sure if the 'sound quality' is good enough now... I think at least a dedicated amp will sound better than a mobo? I mean some good reviewers here seem to notice the difference between amps as in here.

 

[JJB70]

A bad amp can sound bad, amplifiers are one of those funny things where if they're well designed and used within their limits you shouldn't really notice them at all but if designed badly or pushed too hard they can become noticeable. Headphones or speaker choice and placement in a room and room acoustics will generally make a far, far greater difference to sound than amplifier selection provided the amp has enough oomph to drive what you hook up to it and the volume you desire.
However, for all that, amplifiers are built to varying standards of build quality and design, offer different functionality (take a look at the thread on this board about Schiit Jotunheim earthing, or rather lack of for example) and I do get that there is a pleasure in ownership in just buying something you like.

 

[Incantator]

A bad amp can sound bad, amplifiers are one of those funny things where if they're well designed and used within their limits you shouldn't really notice them at all but if designed badly or pushed too hard they can become noticeable. Headphones or speaker choice and placement in a room and room acoustics will generally make a far, far greater difference to sound than amplifier selection provided the amp has enough oomph to drive what you hook up to it and the volume you desire.
However, for all that, amplifiers are built to varying standards of build quality and design, offer different functionality (take a look at the thread on this board about Schiit Jotunheim earthing, or rather lack of for example) and I do get that there is a pleasure in ownership in just buying something you like.

Great summary, but amps are too expensive for me to buy unless I can be sure that it will perform better than my motherboard. If that's not the case, maybe I'll buy one after I have about 4-5 headphones...

 

[JJB70]

I'm going a bit off topic now, but if we widen this to amplifier/DACs, I really wish I had a pound for every person who's bought a separate headphone amp/DAC such as a Chord Mojo then decided there was no improvement over their smart device output or whatever. That isn't to decry such devices and many smart devices (especially in Europe) have very anaemic outputs because of earing protection regulations and you can design a DAC or amplifier badly but its worth trying before you buy and being honest - does it really sound better?

 

[bravomail]

if u don't wanna wait I can wholeheartedly recommend Schiit Magni. I own one and couldn't be happier.