frabor
Active Member
Revised the calculations adding a 20% loss on the SMPS and keeping both best and worst case
It’s well-defined, Off or virtually off (standby waiting for a trigger)Not very clear were standby or idle starts and finishes, as a hybrid mode is defined as
"since 2013, they must not consume more than 0.5 Watts in standby or in off mode, or 1 Watt if they are on standby while displaying their status or information"
https://commission.europa.eu/energy...mode-standby-and-networked-standby-devices_en
Add to that some energy price spikes due to the war in Ukraine and things get expensive fast.The tendency on the regulation of electronics, specially within the CE sticker and regulatory framework, is to provide sub 1W in standby. Regulations regarding harmonics and power factor correction(that I do not understand well)are mandated and have resulted in a lower consumption and units with a cleaner noise profile. Better engineering. In fact, I have the gut feeling that at mass market level Class a, a/b will go the same way of the incandescent bulb and the plasma tv after someone one calculates that all the existing a/b receivers and amps within the European Community on idle generate consume the equivalent power as several nuclear power plants. Once the CE passes regulations, then Canada and England normally came close behind, or simultaneously and the market shirks so fast that it is not cost effective to maintain multiple versions worldwide, thus the old tech eventually fades.
Electricity usage accrues very fast whenever you have 24/7/365. In the IT world is so noticeable that some times lower power consumption equipment upgrading equiment such as terminals vs pc, nas vs files servers, old servers vs new servers can pay for themselves within the lifespan of the product just in the delta of the power usage differential. Even a 5W idle device when operated in 24/7/365 will consume about 45kW/h of power yearly, that is more than 9 Dollars/Euros of power a year (at a very conservative and almost unrealistic 0.20 cent per kW/h); in a 5 year life span it would be about 50 Dollars/Euros, and I can think of some electronics I use 24/7/365 that I own where there power cost is higher that the purchase price within the lifespan
In conclusion, unless you use an equipment for a couple of hours a couple of days a week, aggregated power usage during a lifetime can accrue to a large portion of the initial purchase price. Lower power consumption, within the same type of device, normally imply better overall engineering and design and if you plan to never turn a device off or keep it on 10+ hours a day, that device will make an impact in your power bill within its life span.
Yes, I agree that measuring quiescent power of a device would be an interesting test, specially if it can be done semi automatically with very little extra effort for the testers.
It is very clear. The devices covered by the regulation must have a mode, that if i remember correctly they must switch to automatically, where it consumes less than 0.5W (or whatever other value depending on the type of device). They call this "stand-by" mode.Not very clear were standby or idle starts and finishes, as a hybrid mode is defined as
"since 2013, they must not consume more than 0.5 Watts in standby or in off mode, or 1 Watt if they are on standby while displaying their status or information"
https://commission.europa.eu/energy...mode-standby-and-networked-standby-devices_en
Now the first manufacturer is here, and I know he has an eye for the energy consumption of his products.As a starter, proper definitions between standby, idling, on, off, ... would be needed.
Off: no power consumption at all
Standby: as low consumption as possible, usually high energy eating circuits are shut down and need a bit of time to be started. Below 1 W should be expected.
On: not off nor standby. High energy eating circuits are active.
Idling: on but without playing music.
(3) | ‘standby mode’ means a condition where the equipment is connected to the mains power source, depends on energy input from the mains power source to work as intended and provides only one or more of the following functions, which may persist for an indefinite time:
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(4) | ‘reactivation function’ means a function that via a remote switch, a remote control, an internal sensor or timer provides a switch from standby mode to another mode, including active mode, providing additional functions; |
(5) | ‘main function’ means a function delivering the main service(s) for which the equipment is designed, tested and marketed, and which corresponds to the intended use of the equipment; |
(6) | ‘information or status display’ means a continuous function providing information or indicating the status of the equipment on a display, including clocks. A simple light indicator is not considered a status display; |
(7) | ‘active mode’ means a condition in which the equipment is connected to the mains power source and at least one of the main functions has been activated; |
(8) | ‘off mode’ means a condition in which the equipment is connected to the mains power source and is not providing any function, or it is in a condition providing only:
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What is wrong with what I wrote?I like killer sentences without any background info. If switching on and off is the live time limiter, we have to think about good engineering. Please do the math with a Hypex- or Purify- or some other class D - amplifier with hopefully known idle consumption 24/7 or any time you leave it on. It would be great to know what's going on (measurement) so we can make a decision to take the risk if there is one.
Anyhow, repeating old myths or facts about bad engineering is no science and not really helpful in a forum with science in the name. Or do you have economic interests here?
I've been searching about this stuff lately.
The only valid relation I could find is that is all about power,no matter class AB or D.
The more power they are capable off,the more idle consumption they have.
On the subject,I think Amir does enough alrealy and measuring this stuff (as a whole rig is better) is nothing difficult,just get a decent device of the hundreds around intended for measuring this stuff.It's not expensive,something like 50-100 euro if you want it safe and accurate.