Am I wasting money? AVR recommendations.

[Chrispy]

I was just talking to someone who bought a Buckeye for his Revel F36 and his Marantz SR8015 and he heard no sonic differences and that came as a shock. I know the 8015 has a toroidal and will give sound that's very similar to separates but that's still surprising.

What's the capacitance on the Buckeye?

Why would the power supply type mean much?

 

[peng]

I know the 8015 has a toroidal and will give sound that's very similar to separates but that's still surprising.

That makes no sense, but maybe I misunderstood your point.

 

[HifiLover]

Welcome @HifiLover !

I have been a Denon and McIntosh owner for many years. Currently have a Denon AVR-X4800H that is with Amir who has tested it for Review here at the ASR Forum. My old AVR was a Denon which I used with McIntosh Amps for the Mains and Rear Speaker for 5.1 Home Theater. I will upgrade to a 7.3.4 and will use the McIntosh Amps along with the AVR Amps for the Atmos speakers. I use Series-S REL Subs for Front Left & Right and will be adding a Rear Sub, possibly 2 for SR & SL. I Drive Kef Reference Speakers that have been flawless with the Set-up. I've owned this setup, or a version of it for over 25 years. Very reliable and consistently impressive for me, totally happy with the investment. Looking forward to adding the Denon X4800H to replace my AVR-5600 Denon which has become obsolete with today's HDMI and other add-on features for Room Equalization. The value of the X4800H for me is it's Japan built and believed to be a better performer than the 3800. The Review for 4800 is due to release on ASR this week,

Given your shoes, I would go the 4800 and the McIntosh. Both of these points in my circumspect, are in agreement of your original inclination of choice for McIntosh and Denon, and my preference based on many years of satisfaction with both brands. Good Luck and welcome!

All of you have been so incredibly kind to me on this forum and I really appreciate it. Thank you for the welcome! Yes, I have been around HIFI for quite some time, but I still have so much to learn. When I am spending a fair amount of money, I end up digging myself into a rut sometimes in second guessing myself. Everybody on here is giving me some fantastic ideas.

Edit: Realized room correction fixes previously mentioned statement about warm sound/ etc.

 

[RF Air]

All of you have been so incredibly kind to me on this forum and I really appreciate it. Thank you for the welcome! Yes, I have been around HIFI for quite some time, but I still have so much to learn. When I am spending a fair amount of money, I end up digging myself into a rut sometimes in second guessing myself. Everybody on here is giving me some fantastic ideas.

Edit: Realized room correction fixes previously mentioned statement about warm sound/ etc.

BTW, if you have a great deal on a McIntosh Amp, I would recommend that you should purchase it. The McIntosh will hold value and almost any reputable Service Center will work on it if you need a repair. I can still sell my Amps for at least what I spent originally when I purchased all of my Amps. At least you can try your set-up with the Amp, and choose to resell it if you decide to not use it, without risk. Food for thought.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I was just talking to someone who bought a Buckeye for his Revel F36 and his Marantz SR8015 and he heard no sonic differences and that came as a shock. I know the 8015 has a toroidal and will give sound that's very similar to separates but that's still surprising.

What's the capacitance on the Buckeye?

F36 is very efficient. 2.5 way designed for AVRs.

 

[Head_Unit]

We don't typically listen to things at high volume.

- Then it's highly unlikely you need an outboard amp though yes that McIntosh stuff is lovely and long-standing, a kind of audio comfort food. I'd get a top AVR that has what you need and no more, and try it out. If it sounds fine, no strain, keep that. Based on peak power data by channel I firmly believe if an external amp is added it should be for all THREE front channels, and should be ≥300W@4Ω (FOUR ohms because speakers are not resistors and even the "8 ohm" speakers are really more like 4 these days). We really like an ATI 525NC we got, runs cool as a cucumber. We tried an actual cucumber but the sound was somewhat squishy...
- You mentioned not upgrading often, we've had good luck with Denon over some decades. (You can find horror stories about any brand of course).
- If a speaker does not sound good, particularly at moderate volumes, it's because the speaker is not good. A different amp may sound somewhat different but it simply cannot fix the frequency response and sound radiation problems of an infelicitous speaker.
- You mentioned a difficult room, so good room correction is a must. Audyssey XT32 (+ App) and now Anthem's ARC have both helped our bass to be far smoother, very audible with a bass sweep tone. Dirac should also be quite good but I've never used it. The other systems are not as sophisticated though they may work fine for some systems.
- Speaking of speakers, do you like yours? Lots? Not really? So-so? Pray tell, pray tell, speakers make 12.86X more difference than all the rest of the stuff, they are simply far far less accurate.
- To second @techsamurai what do you have for subs? Spend money there much more so than external amps if you're not blasting the SPL

 

[Astrozombie]

Never done it myself but I would wager that won't be worth $4K. Trying new speakers is the way to go. I can see the new Marantz Receivers are a bit cheaper.
I would match all the speakers first and then.................TC doesn't say what kind of subwoofers they have?....

 

[Bren Derlin]

I'm going to pivot here, and suggest you check out the Anthem MRX 740 8K (140w per channel into 5 channels + 60w per channel into 2 atmos/rear channels). That feels like it would be plenty of power to drive your 702 s2 BW towers. Especially if you're not listening at very high levels. You're going to get some damn fine audio quality.

Only caveat - needing an ethernet connection to your internet service to update the firmware, use the receivers Anthem web IP page for some adjustments and setting up ARC. If you don't have an ethernet port near your HT area, you probably get a WiFi extender with an ethernet port, plug it into an outlet near the receiver, and connect to that, and your off and running...

Second caveat - possible fan noise - but there are work arounds to make this go away IF it's an issue.

 

[dlaloum]

I'm going to pivot here, and suggest you check out the Anthem MRX 740 8K (140w per channel into 5 channels + 60w per channel into 2 atmos/rear channels). That feels like it would be plenty of power to drive your 702 s2 BW towers. Especially if you're not listening at very high levels. You're going to get some damn fine audio quality.

Only caveat - needing an ethernet connection to your internet service to update the firmware, use the receivers Anthem web IP page for some adjustments and setting up ARC. If you don't have an ethernet port near your HT area, you probably get a WiFi extender with an ethernet port, plug it into an outlet near the receiver, and connect to that, and your off and running...

Second caveat - possible fan noise - but there are work arounds to make this go away IF it's an issue.

It was on my shortlist.... but Dirac has made a big difference in my system, so I am not disappointed with my current choice (Integra 3.4)

Anthme's ARC is a very well regarded alternative - which I have not had a chance to try myself, Audyssey XT32 didn't do well in my setup.

 

[HifiLover]

- Then it's highly unlikely you need an outboard amp though yes that McIntosh stuff is lovely and long-standing, a kind of audio comfort food. I'd get a top AVR that has what you need and no more, and try it out. If it sounds fine, no strain, keep that. Based on peak power data by channel I firmly believe if an external amp is added it should be for all THREE front channels, and should be ≥300W@4Ω (FOUR ohms because speakers are not resistors and even the "8 ohm" speakers are really more like 4 these days). We really like an ATI 525NC we got, runs cool as a cucumber. We tried an actual cucumber but the sound was somewhat squishy...
- You mentioned not upgrading often, we've had good luck with Denon over some decades. (You can find horror stories about any brand of course).
- If a speaker does not sound good, particularly at moderate volumes, it's because the speaker is not good. A different amp may sound somewhat different but it simply cannot fix the frequency response and sound radiation problems of an infelicitous speaker.
- You mentioned a difficult room, so good room correction is a must. Audyssey XT32 (+ App) and now Anthem's ARC have both helped our bass to be far smoother, very audible with a bass sweep tone. Dirac should also be quite good but I've never used it. The other systems are not as sophisticated though they may work fine for some systems.
- Speaking of speakers, do you like yours? Lots? Not really? So-so? Pray tell, pray tell, speakers make 12.86X more difference than all the rest of the stuff, they are simply far far less accurate.
- To second @techsamurai what do you have for subs? Spend money there much more so than external amps if you're not blasting the SPL

I've been looking at a few different subwoofers. I'm personally a fan of the sealed subwoofers. SVS has several good subwoofers out there. I'm open to suggestions as well.

Concerning our speakers, we really like them. Good question, though. We love the sound stage and imaging they create.

Edit: 20x15 room. We don't like overwhelming bass. I understand that can be a bit subjective, but I'm drawing a blank on how else to put it.

 

[Bren Derlin]

It was on my shortlist.... but Dirac has made a big difference in my system, so I am not disappointed with my current choice (Integra 3.4)

Anthme's ARC is a very well regarded alternative - which I have not had a chance to try myself, Audyssey XT32 didn't do well in my setup.

Didn’t realize you made a choice. Congrats, and enjoy.

 

[RF Air]

I've been looking at a few different subwoofers. I'm personally a fan of the sealed subwoofers. SVS has several good subwoofers out there. I'm open to suggestions as well.

Concerning our speakers, we really like them. Good question, though. We love the sound stage and imaging they create.

Edit: 20x15 room. We don't like overwhelming bass. I understand that can be a bit subjective, but I'm drawing a blank on how else to put it.

I currently have REL Subwoofers. I replaced Velodynes. I had considered the SVS Subs but found I preferred the performance of the REL's. I think you would be pleased with either a REL or a SVS. The Tx Series REL is on sale through the end of March. I own the S Series 510's paired with my KEF Reference R & L Mains

 

[techsamurai]

I've been looking at a few different subwoofers. I'm personally a fan of the sealed subwoofers. SVS has several good subwoofers out there. I'm open to suggestions as well.

Concerning our speakers, we really like them. Good question, though. We love the sound stage and imaging they create.

Edit: 20x15 room. We don't like overwhelming bass. I understand that can be a bit subjective, but I'm drawing a blank on how else to put it.

I recently purchased a SVS 3000 Micro after a lifetime of using my systems without one. In terms of size, convenience, and price it's hard to beat BUT if you don't mind something larger you can get a better sub for the money. If the 3000's response stayed relatively flat from 30-23hz, I'd say it was more than enough for 99% of people. In some rooms, it will stay flat.

 

[peng]

I recently purchased a SVS 3000 Micro after a lifetime of using my systems without one. In terms of size, convenience, and price it's hard to beat BUT if you don't mind something larger you can get a better sub for the money. If the 3000's response stayed relatively flat from 30-23hz, I'd say it was more than enough for 99% of people. In some rooms, it will stay flat.

Have you measured the response in-room yourself? I suspect you may have good response down to 20 hz or lower, based on how my other 8 inch subs perform in room. The micro has dual 8 inch so I expect it will do much better than my lower end single 8 inch subs.

 

[techsamurai]

Have you measured the response in-room yourself? I suspect you may have good response down to 20 hz or lower, based on how my other 8 inch subs perform in room. The micro has dual 8 inch so I expect it will do much better than my lower end single 8 inch subs.

It seems inevitable that I will have to REW my room. I just don't want to find out it's got issues (which inevitably it must) and then I can't fix them as that sub's position is set in stone like Abraham Lincoln's statue in Washington. If it were wireless (maybe I could move it), but the wall real estate in my living room is in shorter supply and higher demand than all of Manhattan. That's sort of the reason that I had to wait 2 decades for the SVS 3000 Micro to be created

Okay, let me buy a UMIK-1 and hear its response. Please god, make it be flat in the 30-100hz range

 

[Golfx]

It seems inevitable that I will have to REW my room. I just don't want to find out it's got issues (which inevitably it must) and then I can't fix them as that sub's position is set in stone like Abraham Lincoln's statue in Washington. If it were wireless (maybe I could move it), but the wall real estate in my living room is in shorter supply and higher demand than all of Manhattan. That's sort of the reason that I had to wait 2 decades for the SVS 3000 Micro to be created

Okay, let me buy a UMIK-1 and hear its response. Please god, make it be flat in the 30-100hz range

If I am not mistaken, SVS sells a wireless kit for subs. Also, if you do have a null, getting a second sub (wireless kit too) can smooth out some nulls nicely.

 

[peng]

It seems inevitable that I will have to REW my room. I just don't want to find out it's got issues (which inevitably it must) and then I can't fix them as that sub's position is set in stone like Abraham Lincoln's statue in Washington. If it were wireless (maybe I could move it), but the wall real estate in my living room is in shorter supply and higher demand than all of Manhattan. That's sort of the reason that I had to wait 2 decades for the SVS 3000 Micro to be created

Okay, let me buy a UMIK-1 and hear its response. Please god, make it be flat in the 30-100hz range

I am quite confident that in-room, that sub is more like 20 Hz practically speaking. Flat or not will depend on how you run Audyssey, if you use the app and know how/what to tweak, you should be able get it within 2 to 3 dB to relative to the overall response.

 

[Rottmannash]

If I am not mistaken, SVS sells a wireless kit for subs. Also, if you do have a null, getting a second sub (wireless kit too) can smooth out some nulls nicely.

I use the Emotiva wireless system. Works fine. Actually I use 2 transmitters and one receiver.

 

[RF Air]

If I am not mistaken, SVS sells a wireless kit for subs. Also, if you do have a null, getting a second sub (wireless kit too) can smooth out some nulls nicely.

REL has their own Wireless Kits for Subs. There are many positive features and reviews for their Wireless. And speaking of placement, if you are buying one Sub, preferred position will be Corner location along the F & R Main Speakers. Other locations will work, it is a matter of finding what fits for you!

REL.net has a lot of tutorial videos and info for sub placement and set-up guidance, regardless of which Sub you purchase. Wishing you success with your choices! Exciting times ahead!

 

[HifiLover]

You can just use a cable adapter....rca to xlr. Separates haven't proven to provide any particular advantages in terms of spec (let alone being audible). Buckeye is at the top of my list should I go amp shopping again.

Are there any rca to xlr cable manufacturers you would trust? Minus the serpentes oil, of course.