Advice needed with AVR Pairing for Focial Vestia No.3

[NovaVenta]

I was hoping to get some advice here as I haven't had much luck so far. I purchased an Onkyo NR7100 to use in my home theater setup a few months ago, I went through the auditioning process for speakers with wharfedale evo 4.4's and Revel f36's before settling on a pair of Focial Vestia No. 3's along with a matching center channel. The issue is that the Focal's seem to pick up a white noise out of the tweeters which stems from the Left/Right channel terminals of the Onkyo when in any listening mode besides the Pure/Direct mode, I've included a video below for reference.

I recently sent out the receiver for service as I had assumed that there was something wrong with the receiver given the fact that the noise did not come from whatever speaker was connected to the center channel terminal but the shop tested the receiver and the noise levels were within the norm of an identical receiver the repair shop had on site. So if nothing is wrong with the receiver that begs the question and please excuse my layman terms, I'm still very new to this world but is it possible the focals are "too sensitive" for this receiver and I need to go with a higher end one?

I was looking at refurbished Marantz Cinema 50's or Denon x3800h's as I wanted the ability to utilize Dirac Live like I did with the Onkyo's but I also do not want to go on a wild goose chase and spend an extra $1xxx dollars on a receiver if my assumption that the focals are too sensitive for some receivers is incorrect.

Any help and guidance would be greatly appreciated! I'm also open to other receiver recommendations as Dirac Live isn't an end all requirement so I'm not sure if a lower priced model Marantz/Denon would also suffice.

Video of the sound

 

[kyuu]

According to the spec sheets, at least, there's a negligible difference in the sensitivity between the Vestia n3 towers and the center. Without measurements, impossible to say if there isn't perhaps a significant difference in the treble, though.

Apologies if I missed it, but did you try connecting the center to one of the L/R channels and one of the towers to the center channel to see if the noise follows the speaker or is limited to the L/R channels?

Also, is this hiss only noticable from very close? My AVR is similar in the noise department, and I can indeed hear a slight hiss from my speakers close up (90dB sensitive, all three match). It's unnoticeable at normal listening distance and of course completely drowned out by any content.

 

[NovaVenta]

According to the spec sheets, at least, there's a negligible difference in the sensitivity between the Vestia n3 towers and the center. Without measurements, impossible to say if there isn't perhaps a significant difference in the treble, though.

Apologies if I missed it, but did you try connecting the center to one of the L/R channels and one of the towers to the center channel to see if the noise follows the speaker or is limited to the L/R channels?

Also, is this hiss only noticable from very close? My AVR is similar in the noise department, and I can indeed hear a slight hiss from my speakers close up (90dB sensitive, all three match). It's unnoticeable at normal listening distance and of course completely drowned out by any content.

I think I neglected to mention it but I plugged both towers and center speaker into the l/r and center terminals individually. No matter what was connected to the l/r terminal the noise would only come from whatever was connected to those specific terminals including the center speaker. No noise was emitted from the center terminal from any of the 3 speakers when connected to it.

The hiss is noticeable up close at lower audio levels i.e. 50/100 but only when putting an ear to the tweeter otherwise it’s quite loud at 75/100 ++ (the video was taken at 75/100) when I’m utilizing modes that involve digital processing. It’s only noticeable at max volume in the direct/pure modes which don’t involve digital processing. It wouldn’t be a huge deal but it’s definitely annoying in quieter scenes in movies and if I’d be able to virtually eliminate the noise with a “better” avr I’d go that route.

 

[Timcognito]

Did you try without Dirac? Is the source always the same, TV, streaming, radio, etc.?

 

[OCA]

I was hoping to get some advice here as I haven't had much luck so far. I purchased an Onkyo NR7100 to use in my home theater setup a few months ago, I went through the auditioning process for speakers with wharfedale evo 4.4's and Revel f36's before settling on a pair of Focial Vestia No. 3's along with a matching center channel. The issue is that the Focal's seem to pick up a white noise out of the tweeters which stems from the Left/Right channel terminals of the Onkyo when in any listening mode besides the Pure/Direct mode, I've included a video below for reference.

I recently sent out the receiver for service as I had assumed that there was something wrong with the receiver given the fact that the noise did not come from whatever speaker was connected to the center channel terminal but the shop tested the receiver and the noise levels were within the norm of an identical receiver the repair shop had on site. So if nothing is wrong with the receiver that begs the question and please excuse my layman terms, I'm still very new to this world but is it possible the focals are "too sensitive" for this receiver and I need to go with a higher end one?

I was looking at refurbished Marantz Cinema 50's or Denon x3800h's as I wanted the ability to utilize Dirac Live like I did with the Onkyo's but I also do not want to go on a wild goose chase and spend an extra $1xxx dollars on a receiver if my assumption that the focals are too sensitive for some receivers is incorrect.

Any help and guidance would be greatly appreciated! I'm also open to other receiver recommendations as Dirac Live isn't an end all requirement so I'm not sure if a lower priced model Marantz/Denon would also suffice.

Video of the sound

You are probably hearing AC ground loop. Just plug everything in the same wall socket and it should disappear. Remember. even hdmi cable connected to Onkyo coming from a source plugged to a different socket can cause it.

 

[NovaVenta]

Did you try without Dirac? Is the source always the same, TV, streaming, radio, etc.?

Yes I’ve tried multiple sources including Bluetooth, built in Spotify app and the TV source. Also tested with Dirac profile settings and without as well as a factory reset with no room correction besides the speaker configuration settings. The noise seems to be a product of the digital processing that the receiver is doing as adjusting the tone controls (treble, bass etc.) in any mode aside from Direct/Pure also increases the white noise sound. So it’s definitely a characteristic of the receiver as confirmed by the Onkyo authorized repair shop in their testing.

 

[NovaVenta]

You are probably hearing AC ground loop. Just plug everything in the same wall socket and it should disappear. Remember. even hdmi cable connected to Onkyo coming from a source plugged to a different socket can cause it.

I’m pretty positive it was not a ground loop. Everything was connected to the same socket and the sound only occurred when playing from a source. When the AVR was on but nothing was playing there was no noise. In the past when I experienced a ground loop the sound was constantly present whenever the AVR was on not just when it was playing audio from a source.

 

[Timcognito]

Warranty time but it might an inherent flaw. These things are so frustrating. Know from my woodworking that my eye goes to every flaw that I produce and sometimes I just can't get past it, even minor things.

So it’s definitely a characteristic of the receiver as confirmed by the Onkyo authorized repair shop in their testing.

So they get white noise too?

 

[NovaVenta]

Warranty time but it might an inherent flaw. These things are so frustrating. Know from my woodworking that my eye goes to every flaw that I produce and sometimes I just can't get past it, even minor things.

So they get white noise too?

I already tried the warranty route and am right back to square one as I believe it just might be an inherent flaw as you stated and was wondering if a Denon or Marantz might have better luck. I’ll paste exactly what the warranty shop said below, from my conversation with him it made it seem like the focals might make the noise more apparent compared to other speakers but he couldn’t definitively say.

i bench tested the receiver today. the noise level was very low.
i factory reset the receiver, and the noise level dropped further.
i have another onkyo in the shop, so i compared the 2. the noise
levels are exactly the same, both at max level and at 75. the tone
controls work exactly the same, the noise level does increase somewhat
when the control is active.

it is normal for any modern surround sound receiver to produce some
level of noise-the receivers now process audio and video, have
microprocessors, have all sorts of digital signals traveling around
inside for the various functions, display, etc. it's impossible that
all of this digital processing and data transfer will not produce some
noise.

as this receiver is performing exactly the same as the other receiver
in the shop, i will be sending it back. it is operating normally.

 

[Timcognito]

I already tried the warranty route and am right back to square one as I believe it just might be an inherent flaw as you stated and was wondering if a Denon or Marantz might have better luck. I’ll paste exactly what the warranty shop said below, from my conversation with him it made it seem like the focals might make the noise more apparent compared to other speakers but he couldn’t definitively say.

i bench tested the receiver today. the noise level was very low.
i factory reset the receiver, and the noise level dropped further.
i have another onkyo in the shop, so i compared the 2. the noise
levels are exactly the same, both at max level and at 75. the tone
controls work exactly the same, the noise level does increase somewhat
when the control is active.

it is normal for any modern surround sound receiver to produce some
level of noise-the receivers now process audio and video, have
microprocessors, have all sorts of digital signals traveling around
inside for the various functions, display, etc. it's impossible that
all of this digital processing and data transfer will not produce some
noise.

as this receiver is performing exactly the same as the other receiver
in the shop, i will be sending it back. it is operating normally.

Then my advice is try to live with it and find settings that minimize it for awhile, like lowering HF. Your sensitivity to hearing it is high now and may or may not wain, but if you're like me something will have to change. Good luck, sorry I couldn't help more.

 

[NovaVenta]

Then my advice is try to live with it and find settings that minimize it for awhile, like lowering HF. Your sensitivity to hearing it is high now and may or may not wain, but if you're like me something will have to change. Good luck, sorry I couldn't help more.

Unfortunately I’m definitely like you so will probably have to switch something up my only fear is this carries over to a different receiver then I’ll really lose my mind . I appreciate the assistance!

 

[Chrispy]

I think I neglected to mention it but I plugged both towers and center speaker into the l/r and center terminals individually. No matter what was connected to the l/r terminal the noise would only come from whatever was connected to those specific terminals including the center speaker. No noise was emitted from the center terminal from any of the 3 speakers when connected to it.

The hiss is noticeable up close at lower audio levels i.e. 50/100 but only when putting an ear to the tweeter otherwise it’s quite loud at 75/100 ++ (the video was taken at 75/100) when I’m utilizing modes that involve digital processing. It’s only noticeable at max volume in the direct/pure modes which don’t involve digital processing. It wouldn’t be a huge deal but it’s definitely annoying in quieter scenes in movies and if I’d be able to virtually eliminate the noise with a “better” avr I’d go that route.

Is the audibility only when you are that close to the speaker as in your video? How far away is your primary seat? Is it audible there? Can't say with my Onkyo or Denon avrs I've had an issue with different noise levels using speakers, even that close to them and even with speakers with similar sensitivity as yours (and I generally have processing going on).

 

[NovaVenta]

Is the audibility only when you are that close to the speaker as in your video? How far away is your primary seat? Is it audible there? Can't say with my Onkyo or Denon avrs I've had an issue with different noise levels using speakers, even that close to them and even with speakers with similar sensitivity as yours (and I generally have processing going on).

My listening position is roughly 10-12 feet away it is quite audible similar to what is in the video but less “in your face” however audible enough to be a nuisance I.e. in silent scenes in movies you can hear an audible white noise. That’s atleast encouraging that you haven’t experienced a similar issue with your Onkyos, I’m switching listening rooms in the coming month or so, I doubt it will do anything but I’ll atleast see if that has any sort of effect before going out and buying a different receiver

 

[valerianf]

Sorry @NovaVenta about your hiss issue.
I myself recently bought a Onkyo TX RZ30 that is in design close to the one that you have.
I was ready to send it back because of some issue with the treble: distortion and sibilance.
After some intensive tests my conclusion is that this AVR is very sharp with the high frequency and any low quality source or bad speaker (in my case a faulty tweeter) is immediately pin pointed.
I made the test with the volume level set at 50 and placed my ear close to the tweeter: there is no hiss.
Have you tried the Direct mode that bypass the processing?
For my computer I do have some Focal speakers and the high frequencies are revealing any issue in the sound.
As I have a class D amp, I do not need to make a hiss test: I am sure that there is one, but I do not ear it from where is located the keyboard.
May be you need to switch to another AVR.

 

[Chrispy]

My listening position is roughly 10-12 feet away it is quite audible similar to what is in the video but less “in your face” however audible enough to be a nuisance I.e. in silent scenes in movies you can hear an audible white noise. That’s atleast encouraging that you haven’t experienced a similar issue with your Onkyos, I’m switching listening rooms in the coming month or so, I doubt it will do anything but I’ll atleast see if that has any sort of effect before going out and buying a different receiver

Only one Onkyo, an older one with Audyssey (about 14 years old) so possibly not comparable. Several Denons, from 17 to 2 years old. I get a tad bit of noise with my ears up near the tweeters using external amps on the most sensitive speakers (92 like yours) vs internal Denon amps, but only audible with ears up to tweeters, and not much even then....no variance among the front three in any combo tho. Audible noise like that at the seat could well have me looking around. Just how quiet is your room?

 

[Chrispy]

Yes I’ve tried multiple sources including Bluetooth, built in Spotify app and the TV source. Also tested with Dirac profile settings and without as well as a factory reset with no room correction besides the speaker configuration settings. The noise seems to be a product of the digital processing that the receiver is doing as adjusting the tone controls (treble, bass etc.) in any mode aside from Direct/Pure also increases the white noise sound. So it’s definitely a characteristic of the receiver as confirmed by the Onkyo authorized repair shop in their testing.

Also curious, all these are 2ch sources (maybe not the tv but hard to know), what about actual multich content differences?

 

[NovaVenta]

Sorry @NovaVenta about your hiss issue.
I myself recently bought a Onkyo TX RZ30 that is in design close to the one that you have.
I was ready to send it back because of some issue with the treble: distortion and sibilance.
After some intensive tests my conclusion is that this AVR is very sharp with the high frequency and any low quality source or bad speaker (in my case a faulty tweeter) is immediately pin pointed.
I made the test with the volume level set at 50 and placed my ear close to the tweeter: there is no hiss.
Have you tried the Direct mode that bypass the processing?
For my computer I do have some Focal speakers and the high frequencies are revealing any issue in the sound.
As I have a class D amp, I do not need to make a hiss test: I am sure that there is one, but I do not ear it from where is located the keyboard.
May be you need to switch to another AVR.

Yeah I used the Direct mode and that makes the sound stop but the problem is the main reason I bought the Onkyo is for the room correction/digital processing so it kind of defeats the purpose of having the AVR if I have to utilize the direct mode. I'm thinking I may just have to get a different AVR as you suggested.

 

[NovaVenta]

Only one Onkyo, an older one with Audyssey (about 14 years old) so possibly not comparable. Several Denons, from 17 to 2 years old. I get a tad bit of noise with my ears up near the tweeters using external amps on the most sensitive speakers (92 like yours) vs internal Denon amps, but only audible with ears up to tweeters, and not much even then....no variance among the front three in any combo tho. Audible noise like that at the seat could well have me looking around. Just how quiet is your room?

The room is quite quiet, its not a dedicated room but I can definitively say the noise comes from the speaker when seated and up-close is the same noise. As for your other reply apologies I'm not sure exactly what multi channel content is, if your referring to playing content with w/ something other than a 2.0 setup I did try 2.1 and 3.1 with the same effect (center channel speaker had no noise) and it stated so in the Onkyo AVR app that the configuration was playing 2.1 etc. for the source material but as for playing a source i.e. a movie and selecting dedicated surround sound output digitally on the TV I did not do that but I assumed the AVR was communicating with the TV/Apps and doing that directly.

 

[valerianf]

@NovaVenta Did you try using a AccuEQ room correction in place of Dirac Live?
On some forum I read that the activation of DL is moving up the noise floor of the AVR.
I do not know yet for my RZ30 as I did not succeed yet to do a DL calibration.

 

[Chrispy]

The room is quite quiet, its not a dedicated room but I can definitively say the noise comes from the speaker when seated and up-close is the same noise. As for your other reply apologies I'm not sure exactly what multi channel content is, if your referring to playing content with w/ something other than a 2.0 setup I did try 2.1 and 3.1 with the same effect (center channel speaker had no noise) and it stated so in the Onkyo AVR app that the configuration was playing 2.1 etc. for the source material but as for playing a source i.e. a movie and selecting dedicated surround sound output digitally on the TV I did not do that but I assumed the AVR was communicating with the TV/Apps and doing that directly.

I meant actual 5.1/7.1 etc native content. There is no 2.1 or 3.1 native content that I'm aware of. Depends if your tv can output multich content or not, not all do. Not all apps have multich capabilities either. I never use a tv as a source myself.