Aging Dynaudio AIR-15 DSP Speakers and repetitive repairs: Convert to external active or buy new L-C-R's?

[Randyman...]

I have a many-years standing quandary. I have a L-C-R set of older Dynaudio AIR-15's (Active 8"/1" - internal TC-Electronics 96k DSP and 200w x2 B&O Amp Modules). These have required multiple repairs as the PSU section ends up failing in such a way that fries the DSP section; or the output section will go bad. Repairs run around $350 a pop, and I've had all of them repaired twice now. I'm experiencing yet another failure, and I'm fed-up with these repairs. The speakers were purchased used for $3000 ($1000/ea) and I've gotten ~15 years of use from them. New in the early 2000's, they sold for $2500/ea and were used at studios across the world. I'm actually running a smaller AIR-6 for Center at the moment (the AIR-15 Center is also dead) and it is sufficient for my wants (6.5"/1"; DSP + 200w x2).

I really like these speakers (also have dual AIR-BASE-2 subs with external Crest amplification), and I'm not looking to spend $5000+ on new L-C-R's just now. Their build quality is fairly high with a well-damped enclosure and excellent Dynaudio drivers (but from the 2000's). I basically have 5 options I'm looking at:

Option#1: My inclination is to convert to external DSP/Amplification with something like a MiniDSP HTx (Analog L-C-R RCA Inputs from AVR; 6x RCA or Balanced outs) feeding 6 channels of external amplification. I actually have plenty of un-used amplifiers (Sony TA-N77ES x2; TA-N80ES; TA-N55ES x2; DA777ES 5.1 Amp Section; SAE A502; and some others) - but would likely end up purchasing a 6-channel Buckeye or similar if I end up with satisfactory results.
MiniDSP HTx costs $1K - so I could play with this option for just the cost of the HTx and my time invested in cobbling it together and tuning with my existing amps. Add a dedicated 6-channel amp at a later date to simplify the system.
Pros = Tunability and will maintain the high-quality enclosure and drivers in the AIR's. Substantial output. $1K entry cost using my spare amplifiers; with option to add a 6-ch amp later.
Cons = Time/Cumbersome/Extra Components.

Option #2 (v2 of Option #1): Use an aftermarket bi-amp DSP Plate Amp (MiniDSP/Hypex; etc) to replace the AIR DSP/Amp module.
Pros: Less clutter than external active. Tunability. Will maintain the high-quality enclosure and drivers in the AIR's. Substantial output if using plate amp of sufficient power.
Cons: Still rather costly for quality units; no option to lessen initial cost by using my spare amplifiers. Likely require enclosure modifications to fit new module (not a deal breaker).

Option #3 (cheap option): Loosely copy the passive crossover from the similar Dynaudio BM-15P and run the AIR-15's "passive" off one of the aforementioned amps (200w x2). I'm suspecting I'd always be second-guessing this option as tunability is compromised - but the BM-15P is very close to the AIR-15 in driver selection and enclosure design - so betting the BM-15P's passive X-Over is pretty close to ideal "as-is". Tweak as needed (likely just a tweeter level adjustment).
Pros = Cheap and will maintain the high-quality enclosure and drivers in the AIR's. Substantial output with external amp.
Cons = Not easily tweakable, and I lean towards active Main L-C-R speakers.

Option #4: Purchase a L-C-R set of reasonably priced speakers that will match or surpass the 2000's era AIR-15's. Active or passive. New or used. Say $2000-$2500 for L-C-R setup.
My main dilemma here is the AIR-15's are a very "Pro" speaker with a nice enclosure, drivers and impressive output (again - retailed new for $2500/ea), and getting something that isn't a step back will not be a cheap prospect.
Pro's = Modern Driver Tech and Speaker Design not available when AIR's were made in 2000's; Modern DSP and AD/DA (if DSP active); Reliability.
Cons = Cost; likely to be a step-down from the AIR's in quality and output unless spending lots of cash. AIR-15's would sit un-used (a waste).

Option #5 (v2 of option #4): Pick up some used Dynaudio BM-15A Active monitors that are very close to the AIR-15, but use a simpler active analog amp section (no DSP, and don't have the PSU issues of the AIR modules). The BM-15A's are also older speakers from the 2000's, but they compare favorably to the AIR's, and can be found used for around $1000/pr.
Or even try to find the BM-15A Amp Modules separately to retrofit the AIR-15's - but those amp modules are not easy to come by and still pretty old. Smaller used BM-6A's might also be an option.
Pros = Still a great speaker with high output at a reasonable price.
Cons = Old, and actually a "step down" from AIR-15's in good working order. AIR-15's would sit un-used (a waste).

Additional info:

• Smallish treated room; MLP approx 8 feet.
• Dual L/R Subs that serve as bottoms/stands for mains (so looking for bookshelf/studio monitor form-factor - not a floor-stander); Generally cross low, but these subs are well-behaved into the 100-150Hz midbass region if needed (don't need crazy bass output from L-C-R mains, but strong SPL above 80-100Hz is desired).
• AVR = Denon X3800H w/Dirac; generally used for TV viewing at moderate volumes, but want headroom for a bit of SPL (I'm also a musician and engineer with a broad tastes from "big bass in your face" to obscure jazz and even heavy stuff). Plan on using DIRAC or Audyssey in the AVR (not in the external DSP).
• I'd really like to get a set of KH150's or Genelec's with similar output - but that's way out of my budget at the moment.

Link to AIR-15's for reference:

Dynaudio Acoustics Air Series

Dynaudio Acoustics use cutting-edge digital signal processing, developed with TC Electronic, to increase the fidelity of their existing driver technology.

www.soundonsound.com

AIR15 | Nearfield monitor | For stereo and multichannel monitoring

The AIR15 is developed for both stereo and multichannel monitoring and works seamlessly in the most demanding environments.

dynaudio.com

Thanks for any input as I've been grappling with what to do with these lovely speakers that need repetitive repairs w/o killing my pocket book or taking a step back sonically.
Randy V.

 

[DSJR]

I can't help with your questions, but as you've had these for ages and seem to like and enjoy what they do, could you, an electrical.electronics engineer or Dynaudio offer reasons why the speakers fail every five or so years?

Do you leave them powered 24/7?

Is there a hot climate/internal heat issue which eventually knocks them out?

Is it marginally rated caps which eventually fail and take the supplies/boards with them (looks as if the much newer KEF LSX has this issue in the supply)

Can Dynaudio engineers offer help, even if you have to contact the factory directly?

The above is just shooting suggestions and hopefully not aimlessly, but it'd be a shame to ditch or butcher them right now unless Dynaudio abandon support on older models as Linn appear to have done with their black boxes (maybe not the shiny ones) for example, leaving owners high and dry with once valuable door-stops in some models if service isn't available.

 

[Randyman...]

Not aimless at all! I've been using an authorized Dynaudio repair center (T & R Electronics / Brian Thompson in AZ - I believe he is the only Authorized Dynaudio AIR repair center for AIR Modules in the USA). He does a mod to the PSU's that is supposed to help prevent from frying the DSP module when the PSU's inevitably fail. In their stock form, the PSU's DSP +V rail ends up over-shooting and over-volts the DSP module to the point of failure. I believe that has been mitigated with Brian's mod - but the PSU's themselves seem to be prone to failure - and the amp modules can also fail. The DSP modules are becoming scarce at this point. No new-stock is available - only used or repaired modules are available. You can search on eBay and see how many AIR's are being sold for parts / non-working due to these chronic electronics failures.

Going through so many repairs at this point - I'm almost wanting to try the MiniDSP HTx with my spare amplifiers. The TC-Electronic DSP and AD/DA conversion in the AIR modules is 2000's era tech - but still very well respected (Used in the famous TC Electronics M5000 Mainframe DSP Multi-Effects processor heard on thousands of commercial recordings). The B&O Amp Modules in the AIR modules are also 2000's tech - but fairly well respected for early Class-D designs. However, I can't help but think a 2020-era AD/DA and DSP (HTx) would easily match and likely "best" that part of the equation. And I'm pretty confident my 80's/90's Sony ES amplifiers are also higher caliber beefy A/B designs than a 2000's era Class-D amp - and a modern Buckeye amp is likely to be even better.

I really wish I had the budget for Neumann or Genelec L-C-R's that fit my needs - but simply way out of budget right now. Been eying some reasonably-priced modern speakers (some of Erin's reccommendations and others) - but feel I will be getting a down-grade with my budget.

Eager for more input or convincing on any of my options (and any I have not listed).
Thanks! Randy V.

 

[dguillor]

I recently converted a pair of MTM 2 way active speakers, that I built 25 years ago, to 2.5 way. To do this I replaced the analog filter crossover with a minidsp Flex 8 and used REW for measurements to tune it. Using the Flex 8 was pretty easy, and I am happy with the results. I am using a Rotel RB976 MkII six channel amp for power.

 

[Ktacos]

I think it really depends on how experienced you are at filter design for a loudspeaker. It's easy to make something passable but takes a good bit of effort and understanding to do it well. If you have experience with this, integrating a DSP unit to handle filtering should be fairly straight forward. If not, I wouldn't even bother and I'd just get some BM-15's which I'd wager should at least sound somewhat similar to the AIR model. However I'm not aware of any data on either speaker so who knows.

I will say, custom active filters are wonderful, but it's definitely as user friendly in terms of just plug and play. I often find myself endlessly tweaking my filters and god forbid something goes wrong with the setup while I'm away, no way anyone in my home could ever get it all working again. Just something to consider.

Option 3 won't work at all so I wouldn't even bother with that. The tweeter on the bm15p is offset while the AIR is not, that alone will constitute changes in the passive xover far greater than just simple tweeter padding alterations.

but feel I will be getting a down-grade with my budget.

With all due respect, the design of a 10" to 1" is just kind of, silly and has a lot of inherent problems, it's not hard or expensive to find something that performs and likely sounds better.

I would certainly not bother trying to utilize the stock amplifier/dsp in any shape or form, it would be throwing money at something that sounds like it's guaranteed to fail.

You could also send one to me and I'd figure out the filter tasks for it, both active and passive. My fee is two Jr. Bacon cheeseburgers.

 

[Randyman...]

I never understood why Dynaudio and Morel define their driver sizes the way they do - but while they call the AIR-15 a 10", it's actually closer to 8". I agree these larger driver sizes make directivity management and midrange "detail" difficult - but we do have things like MoFi doing modern 8" and 10" point source 2-ways to great success. The output from these AIR-15's is pretty astonishing.

Thanks for the kind offer! I'm somewhat comfortable with DIY active setups - but I have not done this exact experiment before. If I continue down this "external active" road, I'll get a baseline, and eventually measure the original module outputs to get closer to the factory tuning. I have an older EV DC-One DSP that I might play with on the L/R pair - but time is tight.

I'm still pondering some other options. As a stop-gap measure, I might go after a trio of used 1st gen KH-120A's in the $1500 range (but will be 10-15 years old in that price range). I can always find a use for them elsewhere (other systems; move to surrounds) if I end up upgrading to modern KH150's or whatever. I know the 120A's will fit most of my needs, but they will not "get up and go" quite like the AIR-15's do in terms of volume and that snare chest-punch I sometimes crave. At reasonable volumes, I would expect better clarity and midrange coherence from these smaller speakers - even if they will look a little anemic in aesthetics.

What other speakers might you fine people recommend in my situation? I'm more than likely looking at something used in the $2000 (L-C-R) - and I don't mind cosmetic wear-and-tear. I've been partial to active speakers for 20+ years - but a passive that will fit the bill would not be written-off.

Thanks! Randy V.