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Advice Redux - Room Tips, 8341 enough? 8341 vs KH310...Sub(s)...Paralysis

feynman

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I am in my final decision stages without physical access to either of my intended monitor competitors. I have read and re-read every experience and comment here; far too much for any sane person. If there was a thread in the last ten years that mentioned Neumann or Genelec, I've read it, probably multiple times.

I'd love some input from those of you with actual experience in these matters.

I have posted my room before but now have the idea of moving the sofa much closer, within the walled area, nearer to the intended monitor locations. The large open room spill, piano, etc...would all now be beside/behind the MLP. The bookshelf goes away, and the front wall becomes mostly cleared of 'stuff.' I can pull the monitors in 3'+ from the side walls, and I have room to adjust to either close or farther distances from the front wall. I can form a decent triangle in the 6' range.

Any obvious problems with this placement idea? Any better ideas?

For these distances and layouts, with at least one sub, is there any reason the 8341 wouldn't be more than loud enough for me? I listen to fairly dynamic classical music, but never at extreme volumes, and only in stereo...no home theater or multichannel, and with the sub (or subs - necessary?) helping the bottom end. I only ask since the official 8341 review cites potential SPL limitations, but I think they might not apply to my situation.

The KH310 appeals to me as well. My guess is that either of these would be superb in this not-so-great environment (but not-so-bad either is it?). I don't know that the KH310 gives up anything to the 8341 in this situation, aside from saving me lots of money. Does the Gen's coax design help here with reducing any potential issues from the area behind and beside me?

Moving the sofa forward places the listening 'box' inside the three higher walls (12' at front wall, sloping upward to 16.5' behind me). Behind the sofa is wide open and reverberant and problematic I assume, but hopefully not too much of an issue at normalish volumes...or..well, I'm confused.

Aesthetically I like the Genelec look. I have owned 8020s for years and enjoy those immensely on my desktop.

The 8341 is a stretch budget but is considered, and the 8351 would be too much to swallow.

I don't know that I would actually need a sub for my tastes, but I have an extra Rythmik L12 that I could try to integrate for a bit. If the sub or subs are important or life changing in this room, I'd probably save a bit and spring for either of the pricey Neumann or Genelec options to simplify setup with SAM/GLM/MA-1. That would be a decision for a later time/wallet. Would the sub on the side wall be a good spot, or would it better on the front wall somewhere (or just test and find out)?

A final note is that I am 100% sure I'm overthinking this and would be absolutely pleased with either set, or maybe even other more affordable options...and I'm slowly driving myself insane.

So, what would you suggest that I do? Is this overkill and I would be equally pleased with more obtainable equipment? Is my environment suitable for this?


Thank you in advance for putting up with my madness.

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alont

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A few questions:
1. What kind of music do you listen to?
2. Do you have any way to measure how reverberant your room is? Based on the pictures it seems to me like it would be quite reverberant.
3. Any reason in particular you'd like to go with the 8341 instead of something else like the 83X0 series or other offerings from different manufacturers?
4. Would it be possible to rotate the whole setup 90 degrees and place the speakers near the window to the right?
 
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feynman

feynman

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A few questions:
1. What kind of music do you listen to?
2. Do you have any way to measure how reverberant your room is? Based on the pictures it seems to me like it would be quite reverberant.
3. Any reason in particular you'd like to go with the 8341 instead of something else like the 83X0 series or other offerings from different manufacturers?
4. Would it be possible to rotate the whole setup 90 degrees and place the speakers near the window to the right?
1) Almost entirely classical music, but most of it along the lines of more intimate chamber music, guitar/lute/early music...not generally too demanding or bass heavy or brash. But...I do often listen to some larger orchestral works, noisy jazz ensembles, etc. Solo piano works are in constant rotation, and they obviously have huge dynamic swings.
I never listen at very loud levels, but would like some room to play.
2) I have a UMIK and REW and could lug a small system in here for output...but aside from that, no.
3) Uh...they look cooler. :) If other sets would do the trick just as well, I'm fully open to them. I even love the look of older 1032 Gens, and I think I'd probably be very happy with an 83x0 (5 would be my guess).
4) I can rearrange anything in there. I just assumed when I played with the rotated idea that having one wall closed and one open might be even more difficult to deal with...but I'm obviously very inexperienced here.

Thanks for the reply!
 
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dshreter

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They’re both outstanding loudspeakers. I think your decision making needs to come down to the total system you will build.

8341 has built in DSP for room correction so it can be paired with GLM for calibration and any two channel pre-amp. It has a coaxial design for better vertical directivity.

KH 310 does not have its own built in DSP that you can control unless paired with KH 750. So you will need your preamp to have an EQ/room correction capability. It has deeper bass response. It is less expensive.

If I would use a preamp with room correction built in like miniDSP SHD or others. And if I expected to not add a sub, I think it’s easy to select KH 310.

If I would not otherwise have any EQ capability I would get 8341 and GLM. Personally I think you’re buying tech you don’t really need in the 8341 and can make your money work harder for you with the Neumanns
 

FrantzM

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Hi

The forum has a definite Genelec bias with good reasons but the KH310 remains one of the best speakers that ASR has reviewed/measured, perhaps top 5.. @sweetchaos would certainly correct me ;).
With a pair of Ryhtmik L12 or equivalent or superior, this is the foundation of an almost endgame stereo (2-channel) system IMO. The rest is set up. There are alternatives. Neuman MA-1 does require Neuman (read expensive , if capable) sub or subs.
They may not be as fancy-sounding or prestigious as MA-1 but they can get the job done.. The first would be the obvious/Tedious manual method with REW and UMik and something like a miniDSP SHD or Flex or equivalent as preamp/DRC as system control... Tedious and will take some time.. SHD has Dirac but I don' know much about it... It is well regarded by many but I have some doubt about its subwoofer integration capabilities...
The second, much more flexible in my opinion and often, overlooked is a receiver with Audyssey XT32, say a Denon AVR-X3700H. Audyssey is more powerful and useful than people give it credit for or perhaps, realize. Reasons could be, that it has been around for so long, or its inclusions in HT receivers, from entry level to top of the line... Audyssey can correct a system to a very enjoyable/accurate level. It takes time, it takes to understanding its quirks and it is not easy of immediate. It mandates , the use of at least the Audyssey smartphone/Tablet App which cost $20 but they they also have a more powerful PC/MAc variant that cost $200, I have the demo, am hesitant to buy it at that price, since it is not transferable but ... Audyssey App works well with one sub, not so well with two ( again I don't know about the PC application, it could be different).
In this room, a pair of KH 310 and a Denon AVR-X3700H with the Audyssey App, start you on a journey of enjoyment. Add a pair of subwoofers later and a miniDSP 2x4 HD plus Umik to measure... and you are in heaven , I know I would be.

I hasten to add that it will take time to have the system sounding its best .. Any system... By "time" I mean months, even years.

P.S. Reading what I wrote. I would investigate a miniDSP SHD Studio or miniDSP Flex very seriously. :oops:


Peace
 
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tifune

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Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see your source/transport listed here? That's relevant not because of it's performance (assuming it was made this century by someone competent), but rather features. If you already have an AVR, for example, the Genelec value proposition shrinks because you can already apply a bit of EQ/correction.

You will most certainly be happy with either, but you will potentially save a lot of $ on the Neumann because they aren't as rigid as Genelec about sale prices, refurbs, etc. I got my pair of 310's for $3k including full warranty, grille and ceiling mount bracket. With that $ you can buy a sub, which will absolutely push the 310's over the Genelec for about the same price.

I think the biggest thing, audibly, between the speakers mentioned is the Genelec's perfect vertical dispersion but with that carpet and high ceilings it's hard to imagine it will make much difference. Given this looks to be a, mostly, dedicated listening space, is multichannel in your future? If so, again $ will go even further with neumann

That said, if anyone sees an excellent deal on a 1-series (or KH420) please ping me :).
 

alont

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Have you considered the Buchardt A500/A700 + hub?

They're active, have streaming + room correction capabilities and very good low frequency extension along with controlled directivity down to relatively low frequencies.
 
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feynman

feynman

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Thanks for all of the helpful replies.

For the front end stuff, it's wide open and TBD. I will probably almost exclusively stream music to something. I use Apple Music more than anything, and currently have a couple of inexpensive options in the house (I have a pi running Mo0de, a CCA, a Mac Mini feeding a Topping DAC).

I figure I'll start with the monitor/sub selections and take it from there in terms of the EQ/streaming solution.

I didn't consider the Buchardt but will look at them again. I had read about some of the earlier delivery/hiss/promise issues, but haven't looked in a while.

Short of kicking out one of my children and taking another room, this is the space I will need to contend with. I think it will be workable if I close it in the way I sketched, but it's obviously not ideal.
 

Honken

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According to the excellent thread by @Doodski, Moode includes EQ options. So you should be be able to do EQ there if you opt for speakers without EQ built in. Personally I use shairport-sync + CamillaDSP on a RaspberryPi but that's a bit of a technical solution.

I'm watching this thread with great interest, as these speakers are some that I consider as well. Best of luck!
 
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