Lurker Looking for Room Setup Advice

[Trekari]

Hello, and thank you to anyone taking the time to read any of this!

I recently came into the ability to upgrade my basement 'theater' room, and based on the many reviews offered on this site, I settled on what I believe to be pretty decent hardware.

Denon AVR-X4800H
Kef R7 Metas, R6 Meta, and 2 x R3 Metas, along with 4x Ci160QR for Atmos.
I have purchased the full Dirac License with Bass Control.
I do have REW and a Umik-1.

The problem I am now facing, and what is causing my head to spin with concern that I'm going to screw things up, is that my room has some rather obvious acoustical issues and I don't know what the best outcome is going to be.

The short question before I post the photos to help anyone kind enough to answer, is that I can't figure out what the best orientation of my setup is going to be. My budget is dwindling down to "I spent too much already" so I'm desperately seeking the advice of anyone who knows more than I do, which is practically everyone on this site it would seem.

First, I'd like to share a few photos of the room in it's current state as I try to visualize what I'm doing. The room is 17'x11.5'x7.5', with a low ceiling over the MLP that is only 6'7" or so high. (Yes, it's very hard to watch a movie in it's current setup, as I was moving speakers around to visualize my proposed change. )

The above photo is taken from a hallway on the old rear-left side.

The above photo is taken from the front-right to show the hallway of the previous photo.

The above photo is taken from the old front-left corner of the room, to show the other major problem of having no rear-right wall!

It is only possible for me to either keep the old layout, or rotate everything 90 degrees to the right (as I obviously have moved some speakers into test position for.) Below are two proposed floorplans with a few acoustic treatment panels thrown in.

Old orientation of the room (Please ignore the crazy distance lines outside of the room, those are for geometric measurements of the early reflection points.
Subwoofers to either side, Blue boxes = Proposed 244 or 242 (for the low ceiling) GIK panels. Green boxes = Proposed Alpha Diffusers. Brown box in upper left corner will be a Tri-Trap floor-to-ceiling (there will be one on the front Right corner as well but I forgot to put it into the picture.

A few notes:

1) The main speakers are not up against the wall. The sprites have been 'lengthened' to include the minimum recommended distance from the wall that Kef suggests.
2) In this orientation, I get symmetrical side-walls, but I have practically no rear wall, as it only exists on the left side, and the Atmos speakers are pretty close to the back wall on the left side. Please note that the vertical distance lines of 11'6" and 15'10 7/8" are only there to show where the HVAC low ceiling is.
3) I feel like this is much more difficult to properly treat the room because of the lopsided ceiling height and the closeness of the atmos speakers to the rear wall. They are meant to be Top Front and Top Rears.

Here is the other option I am considering:

1) In this layout, I lose the symmetrical front sidewalls, but gain the ability to treat the left sidewall appropriately, as well as being able to treat the hallway wall a bit and a few 244 and 242 panels for the ceiling. I also gain a nice symmetrical Atmos layout, and IMO a better rear-wall outcome.
2) I would be placing the R6 Meta on top of one subwoofer (either with it's little rubber feet, or some Auralex isolation pads), and the TV will be wall-mounted on an extendable mount to bring it closer to my seat.
3) It is not really possible for me to build a stud wall in the huge empty space. While this is the house I will die in, my folks actually own it until they pass away. Were they to see a nice new wall built in the middle of the basement, I don't think I'd live long enough to let them try out the room and hear for themselves why it was done.
4) The media storage rack in the real photos will be moved well to the right of the proposed Front-Right speaker!!
5) I am open to hanging a curtain on the right side if that would help mimic the left.
6) The Tri-Traps will again be placed in the top two corners, floor-to-ceiling.

Diagonal placement of the system is not possible in any orientation.

One final note: In the real pictures, you can see the old mounts for my old setup. Truth be told, I never felt the need to complain to myself then about the surrounds not being more rearward as suggested in a 5.1 setup, but I've put so much money into the project now that I'm trying to avoid as many compromises as I can, which is why I'm willing to have a surround speaker somewhat in the wall of the hallway. I'm the only one who lives here, so I'm the only klutz who needs to avoid walking into it.

Thank you to anyone who read this far and thank you in advance to anyone who did that and takes the time to help a guy out. I'm running my brain in circles trying to do research on how important all this stuff is and I'm definitely feeling a bit overwhelmed and petrified that I only have so much money left to get this right, and wasting any of it on mistakes would be crushing.

 

[Keith_W]

The most important speakers are L, C, R. They need to be placed symmetrically with symmetric side walls. So I favour your first proposal.

Do not spend any money on room treatment until you get some acoustic measurements. The effect of room treatment is profound, and you run a huge risk of creating spectral distortion where there was none before. I have been to a few too many rooms where people think they can slap in some random room treatment and "improve" things. Position your speakers properly first, listen and take measurements. If you need room treatment later, you can add it later. FYI, as Toole points out, most people do not need room treatment if rooms are furnished.

And welcome to ASR!

 

[westsail42]

Looks like a nice space. PLENTY of room to experiment!

 

[Trekari]

Hey, thank you both for the replies!

Of all the things I currently do have, what I do not have until sometime tomorrow is a tripod capable of taking good measurements at my seat.

As far as the proposed room treatment, that is based off of some consultation (yes, without measurements) with GIK, as well as watching a lot of videos recently from people whose credentials include working with Dolby, THX, etc., though I recognize that observed (measured) data matters, and that they could be wrong or I could misunderstand their strategies. GIK has a sale until April 30th, so I have some time yet to actually get measurements and make a more informed decision. I will admit however that the lone theater chair is the only piece of furniture in the entire space other than the media storage.

I will definitely report back with some actual measurements once the tripod is delivered. I may have to take the rotated measurements without the Center though, as I don't think any of my old speaker wire is long enough to get there, and I don't want to cut into my new speaker wire until I know how much I need for the right layout because $$$.

One of my main concerns with the old layout is that I started doing all of this to enjoy Atmos, and I worry about the ceiling speaker only being 12" from the wall. (The 14" from the HVAC ceiling doesn't bother me, because anything that hits it will initially reflect away from me.) I did verify that I would be able to actually see each of the speaker locations in their entirety. My first thought was that I could just place an absorptive panel at that reflection point?

A positive for the old layout is that the left rear speaker is a little (3" or so) father away from the MLP, so the hallway intrusion is a little less, however a positive for the rotated layout, is that the room remains actually open and usable to the right of the Front Right, instead of the Rear-Right being definitely more intrusive.

Yes, I recognize the irony of the open space to the right being both a positive and a negative in the same layout.

Thank you again.

 

[Mark617]

Hey, thank you both for the replies!

Of all the things I currently do have, what I do not have until sometime tomorrow is a tripod capable of taking good measurements at my seat.

As far as the proposed room treatment, that is based off of some consultation (yes, without measurements) with GIK, as well as watching a lot of videos recently from people whose credentials include working with Dolby, THX, etc., though I recognize that observed (measured) data matters, and that they could be wrong or I could misunderstand their strategies. GIK has a sale until April 30th, so I have some time yet to actually get measurements and make a more informed decision. I will admit however that the lone theater chair is the only piece of furniture in the entire space other than the media storage.

I will definitely report back with some actual measurements once the tripod is delivered. I may have to take the rotated measurements without the Center though, as I don't think any of my old speaker wire is long enough to get there, and I don't want to cut into my new speaker wire until I know how much I need for the right layout because $$$.

One of my main concerns with the old layout is that I started doing all of this to enjoy Atmos, and I worry about the ceiling speaker only being 12" from the wall. (The 14" from the HVAC ceiling doesn't bother me, because anything that hits it will initially reflect away from me.) I did verify that I would be able to actually see each of the speaker locations in their entirety. My first thought was that I could just place an absorptive panel at that reflection point?

A positive for the old layout is that the left rear speaker is a little (3" or so) father away from the MLP, so the hallway intrusion is a little less, however a positive for the rotated layout, is that the room remains actually open and usable to the right of the Front Right, instead of the Rear-Right being definitely more intrusive.

Yes, I recognize the irony of the open space to the right being both a positive and a negative in the same layout.

Thank you again.

Hello Trekari,

My $0.02. Before spending money on any treatment sale, I would suggest that you decorate the room to make it livable and pleasant to spend time in there. Perhaps, another chair or a sofa, wall hangings, a side table, lamps, book/madia cases. I think that the listening room should be an inviting place where one wants to stay even if not listening to music. After that, you may want to measure it and consider, perhaps, some acoustic treatments but not before. Best wishes of success.

Mark

 

[Trekari]

Thanks Mark,

I'm an oddball in that I am content with minimal interior decorating. I've lived here for 13 years almost and I think there are fewer than 10 pictures or posters in the entire home. I actually just tossed a 3-seat sofa out from this room because it hurt my back to sit in, and the only other butt looking for a seat on any given day is my cat.

**********

I ran Dirac in the rotated (TV to the right) setup, and although the stereo imaging actually turned out quite good, I noticed during panning tests that I lost track of the sound source as it panned from Front Right to Surround Right, whereas on the left side I felt like the source tracked my interpretation fairly accurately. I suspect that is because of the missing sidewall.

I should note the stereo image being very good was impressive, as I did not hook up the Center channel and went phantom for this experiment, yet voices in songs and movies sounded like they were absolutely coming from the Center channel. (I had moved it into position so I could see it.)

I am not yet able to take REW measurements, because I don't have an HDMI cable long enough to reach the receiver while also having the USB plugged into the Umik-1.

 

[westsail42]

I can say that in my "near field" listening space, just the "little" adjustments: moving speakers closer/farther apart, an inch or two away from the wall. Toe in or parallel, subwoofer placement, etc, can make HUGE differences in audio perception. This includes other furniture/carpets/articles in the room (I have not made serious acousitic treatments, but might try that soon). I have made way too many measurements with Dirac, and in almost all cases the "after" is usually better than the "before." Make the room comfortable for you and do not hesitate to experiment all the while try to be a bit analytical/methodical in your experimentation. But in the end, settling in on something that sounds BEST (to you!) is what you may be looking for. Trust your ears.

 

[Trekari]

I really need to buckle down and get my D&D prep done for my group tomorrow, but I managed to take a few measurements last night in the rotated, phantom-center orientation.

I'm not surprised at the terrible RT30; when I clap my hands there is a significant amount of reverberation. I am amazed at what Dirac can do however, as the measured frequency response afterwards was incredible.

I applied a 4dB Harman curve as my target.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Clap test says it all.

 

[Trekari]

Indeed it does, Alice!

I gave the folks a call today and broached the stud-wall topic, and the reception was surprisingly neutral-to-good.

With a six-foot stud-wall on that bottom-right side, would the consensus here be that this layout would then be the best option? Is that length of wall enough to solve the spatial issue I was experiencing with the panning test? It is enough for the early reflection of the Front-Right speaker, but the Center and Front-Left still largely hit the gap that would remain.

Thank you again to all who took the time to help.