Speaker Position - need some advice

[kma100]

I am a bit confused about this so I need some guidance. Most documentation says you need to keep your speakers a certain distance from the wall. However, it doesn't specify whether the distance is measured from the rear of the speaker or the front.

For example, I have the Revel F208 loudspeaker. The speaker is 14 inches deep so when I place it such that the rear of the speaker is 7 inches from the wall, the front baffle is about 21 inches. I thought all measurements had to be from the front baffle given that is from where the drivers radiate. But if that's how it's measured, then speak a distance is a function of speaker depth and the speaker has to be "X inches from the wall" makes no sense.

Genelec recommends positioning of the speaker where the front is between 5 and 60 cm from the wall behind it. 60 cm translates to about 23 inches…given the depth of my speaker, that implies the rear of the speaker should be at most 7 inches from the wall.

For reference, this is a living room with typical living room furniture. I don't have any specialized treatments and the audio chain is Bluseound Node to DSPpeaker Antinode X2 to amplifier.

So, in a nutshell, trying to figure out my speaker position!

Thanks for any help.

 

[VMAT4]

Try either way and go with what sounds better to you.

 

[kma100]

Thanks. Though I am looking for some more guidance beyond "trust your ears". Hence my post.

 

[jkasch]

Roy Allison published a quite comprehensive study of the effects of room boundaries.

https://audioroundtable.com/misc/Influence_of_Room_Boundaries.pdf

 

[kma100]

Thanks @jkasch - will take a look.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Unless a manufacturer says otherwise, the distance between a box speaker and the wall is measured from the back of the speaker. Kali speakers reference this here, under the heading of "listening position".

 

[VMAT4]

Thanks. Though I am looking for some more guidance beyond "trust your ears". Hence my post.

Just trying to be pragmatic. Good luck with Mr. Allison's paper!

 

[kma100]

Just trying to be pragmatic. Good luck with Mr. Allison's paper!

Agreed! Pragmatic is good

 

[VMAT4]

Agreed! Pragmatic is good

That being said Jim Taylor has answered your question. But, speaker positioning is a trust your ears task.

 

[jkasch]

Just trying to be pragmatic. Good luck with Mr. Allison's paper!

I do think trying to avoid duplicating distances from the center of the bass driver to the floor and walls is a good starting point.

 

[Oddball]

Should distinguish between the guidance between passive (Revel) and active (Genelec) speakers. Actives are actually for the most part designed to go near the wall to get boundary gain - but they have their own DSP (and amp) and design is quite different. For passive speakers the general guidance is to keep them off wall (back and side) in order to avoid "boomy" low end response and other things.

Your DSP and overall preferences should be a guide to the placement, provided they produce some at least solid looking REW graphs. Unfortunately that means you trying various different placements as well as angling to MLP to figure out what works best. We are not at the point where this could just be done with a push of the button. Some room EQ systems would be more advanced to correct this, but again, best to fix it in real and not virtual space.

 

[Astoneroad]

The 208s have boundary settings to help you with this issue. From Amir's review (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/revel-f208-tower-speaker-review.13192/), "I played with the bass compensation and it does what it says: if you set it to boundary, it lowers the bass level. I did not test the tweeter one but I suspect it does the same. An array of power resistors behind that panel makes these simple level changes."

 

[kma100]

I have a DSPeaker antimode x2. Assume that would be more accurate in the boundary switches? I keep the switches in the neutral position.

 

[Astoneroad]

I have a DSPeaker antimode x2. Assume that would be more accurate in the boundary switches? I keep the switches in the neutral position.

I don't know. Sounds like you don't either. You can go through the rigors of comparative trial and error to find out, or you can assume all sorts of things. I'd be surprised if the guys here are big advocates of assumption. Any advice given here, will require some combination of measurement, trial and error and A/B testing and after you've eliminated the impossible, whatever remains must be the truth... I'd assume.

 

[scrubb]

View attachment 434490

OMG, you're driving those beautiful speakers with... ZIP WIRE!!??!? What gauge is that even? How can you hear ANYTHING?!??!?

 

[Astoneroad]

OMG, you're driving those beautiful speakers with... ZIP WIRE!!??!? What gauge is that even? How can you hear ANYTHING?!??!?

Take it up with Amir. That's the pic from his review... did you miss the AudioScienceReview.com in red?... lol.

 

[Holmz]

Front of speaker.
Try to start at the room dimension /N
…where “N” is 3, 5,7, 9.

Same with the width.
And the listener can be put at anti node as well.

Once you have a starting place, then move them around a bit to-n-fro and left-n-right.

 

[Oddball]

OMG, you're driving those beautiful speakers with... ZIP WIRE!!??!? What gauge is that even? How can you hear ANYTHING?!??!?

Assume the conductor/wire is not some organic or otherwise untested matter. Looks like gauge is OK based on speaker dimensions unless the run is too long? So not sure where is the problem - understand that many others run the zip wire as well?

 

[Jim Taylor]

OMG, you're driving those beautiful speakers with... ZIP WIRE!!??!? What gauge is that even? How can you hear ANYTHING?!??!?

Take it up with Amir. That's the pic from his review...

So not sure where is the problem - understand that many others run the zip wire as well?

First we have complaints that sarcastic posts don't have emojis (per Poe's Law) and then we have a conniption fit when a sarcastic post DOES have emojis.

It's a lose-lose situation.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Does Revel give any advice in their manual or elsewhere?

I would say contrary to popular belief there's not a huge difference between moving them a few cm back and forth. You will get some boundary gain if they're close to the wall. If you want to change that significantly you have to move them WAY out. There is no general advice as to what is correct for most neutral response, as it depends on a combination of the how the speaker is designed, how your room works and where you sit.

Another problematic area is the 100-300hz range, which is often less problematic if the speakers are closer to the wall.