Active Speakers for New Listening Room

[robithinker]

I am moving soon to a new house and will have a new listening room that requires me to change to shorter speakers. The room is about 40m2 and has 3.2m high ceilings. There will be no acoustic treatment and I am looking to move from my current passive speaker setup (Focal Aria 948 and Onkyo receiver) to a set of active speakers. Below are what I am looking at. Listening position will be about 3 meters or so, but this room is an open-floor plan kitchen/dining area/living room, so I would like to have a large enough sound stage for when we have guests not sitting at the listening position. I want active streaming capabilities for Hi-Res (with LAN cable) from AirPlay 2 mostly, but will add a turntable at some point as well. I live in Switzerland so some brands are more difficult to source/test than others. Budget is around 5k (USD or CHF doesn't matter).

1. JBL 4329p - not out here in Switzerland yet, but looks interesting - price 4500/pair
2. Buchardt A500 Signature - price 4900/pair (not many left and i would have to order in the next few days)
3. Genelec 8351 - (6700/pair) - or maybe if I save a while 8361 (8800/pair) - yes these are different price class, but everyone is raving about them, on this site and others
4. Cabasse The Pearl - 6600/pair
5. B&W Formation Duo - 5000/pair

Lastly the cheaper variant
6. Klipsch The Nines - 2000/pair - please don't come at me about the Klipsch . I am aware of the audiophile criticisms of horn loaded speakers (especially Klipsch), but i have a soft spot for them. My dad, who is now in his early 80's was a hi-fi enthusiast (within our families fairly limited means) and in the late 80's we were able to score some Forte II's for extremely cheap due to a damaged woofer which we had replaced. This set the bar for me for a long time on audio quality These seem to offer quite a lot of bang for your buck given the price.

My primary concern is the room, with hardwood floors (maybe a area rug) and tall ceilings. Room correction software would be helpful.

Any suggestions or ideas other than what I have listed?

 

[boxerfan88]

Neumann KH420 with or without subs

 

[Purité Audio]

You might look at GGNTKT’s M1, active, cardioid digital or analogue input, no built in PEQ but you could use Roon/RME, bass extension for such a compact design is formidable.
Welcome to ASR.
Keith

 

[robithinker]

Neumann KH420 with or without subs

Yeah, I've seen some love for the Neumanns on this site and they do look quite impressive.

Question - and I'm showing my ignorance of active speakers here - won't the Neumanns (and the Genelecs for that matter) require an external DAC and/or streamer? With speakers like the JBL, Cabasse, and Klipsch there is a LAN input that connects the speaker directly to the network for streaming.

 

[robithinker]

You might look at GGNTKT’s M1, active, cardioid digital or analogue input, no built in PEQ but you could use Roon/RME, bass extension for such a compact design is formidable.
Welcome to ASR.
Keith

Interesting, I'll have a look at those.

 

[boxerfan88]

Yeah, I've seen some love for the Neumanns on this site and they do look quite impressive.

Question - and I'm showing my ignorance of active speakers here - won't the Neumanns (and the Genelecs for that matter) require an external DAC and/or streamer?

Specifically for the KH420 it'll require a DAC (or streamer with built-in DAC) in the signal chain.
I'm unable to comment about Genelecs as I am unfamiliar with them.

With speakers like the JBL, Cabasse, and Klipsch there is a LAN input that connects the speaker directly to the network for streaming.

I'm not sure if those speakers have built-in streamers that can pull music streams from the internet.
If they don't include a built-in streamer, you'll still need to get a streamer or (streamer+DAC) into the signal chain.
Because the above are brands not specific models, it is best to study the desired product manual to fully understand it's capabilities & limitations.

 

[robithinker]

Because the above are brands not specific models, it is best to study the desired product manual to fully understand it's capabilities & limitations.

Thanks. I was referencing those from my original list of options (JBL 4329p, Cabasse The Pearl, and Klipsch The Nines). I have been looking at the manuals and am still not entirely sure how it works. I know they say they support AirPlay 2 (and sometimes Tidal, Qobuz, etc.) , so I believe i can open Apple Music on my phone and select the speakers for streaming musics, but again, not sure how the signal flows.

 

[Purité Audio]

‘Streamers’ are so reasonably priced, some playback software has built in PEQ, ( Roon/JRiver) and some dacs RME ADI series.
Cardioid response definitely helps with SBIR issues, hence my GGNTKT recommendation.
Keith

 

[robithinker]

Thanks again. After looking at the Neumanns and realizing that my room is 120m3, I am now dithering between the 8361s and the KH420s. I prefer the aesthetics of the Genelecs, but they are technically only rated to 110m3. I am looking at streamers that can somehow connect to the Genelecs wired to play 24-bit/192 kHz.

 

[robithinker]

I've had to rethink these options and am now looking at the Adam Audio S3Vs or possibly the Eve Audio SC4070. The best prices for the Genelec 8361s and Neumann KH420s come from a company that is legitimate, but apparently has terrible customer service and long delivery times due to having to order from their distributor. So now my preference is the S3V's as they have both XLR and AES connections and seem to have a flatter response. One thing that I cannot figure out is about the digital vs. analog inputs.

I watched one review from a sound engineer who said that when connecting the S3Vs via AES, and thus bypassing the D-A conversion from the source and then the A-D conversion in the S3V, the quality of the sound improved noticeably. What's confusing me is how I would integrate a sub from Adam. The S3V has an AES in and an AES out for daisy chaining other S3Vs.

But the sub (SUB12) looks to only have balanced XLR analog. Here you plug in from the source and then use the L/R outs for the satellites. Connecting from the satellites AES to the sub does not seem possible. Am I missing something?

 

[robithinker]

Any feedback on this question, or on the S3V generally?

 

[Purité Audio]

What has put you off the Genelec/Neumanns?
I have little experience with Neumann but the 8361sare excellent and three metres won’t be an issue.
Keith

 

[robithinker]

What has put you off the Genelec/Neumanns?
I have little experience with Neumann but the 8361sare excellent and three metres won’t be an issue.
Keith

Mainly price. My budget is CHF 7-8k which needs to cover monitors, sub (if necessary), and streamer. I realized that I will need a streamer with AES/digital outs and now include that in the budget. The store I was looking at has a pair of 8361s with the GLM 4 mic included for CHF 8260, but they have a terrible reputation for customer service (although they are an official Genelec dealer). Other stores have the 8361s at about CHF 9600, without the mic, and of course without a sub or streamer. Similar situation for the Neumanns. The WAF means that 8k is kind of the hard limit.

So it seems I would either need to go with a different Genelec/Neumann, or a different brand, hence my looking at the Adam Audio, where I would be able to get the S3Vs with a sub and a streamer for about the same price as the 8361s/KH420s. Genelec subs are quite expensive compared to other brands. I'm trying to find one that is respected but which can also fill a 120m3 living room/dining area/kitchen open floor plan.

 

[Purité Audio]

Well… if you had the 8361s you wouldn’t need a sub and state of the art streamers are not expensive look at the new Eversolo A-6 for example.
I would get a really first rate pair of speakers and save up for a sub, if in the future you feel you need it.
Keith

 

[MAB]

I watched one review from a sound engineer who said that when connecting the S3Vs via AES, and thus bypassing the D-A conversion from the source and then the A-D conversion in the S3V, the quality of the sound improved noticeably.

Unless the ADC in those are junk, no way you can hear the difference. My Genelec sound identical using either digital or analog inputs. The idea that you need to go all digital to the speakers will severely limit your choices, for no reason!

Welcome to ASR! I really have a difficult time with this YouTube nonsense, it creates so much confusion and causes bad choices and costs money. After some time here, hopefully you will be able to sort out all of the chaos out there!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Mainly price. My budget is CHF 7-8k which needs to cover monitors, sub (if necessary), and streamer. I realized that I will need a streamer with AES/digital outs and now include that in the budget. The store I was looking at has a pair of 8361s with the GLM 4 mic included for CHF 8260, but they have a terrible reputation for customer service (although they are an official Genelec dealer). Other stores have the 8361s at about CHF 9600, without the mic, and of course without a sub or streamer. Similar situation for the Neumanns. The WAF means that 8k is kind of the hard limit.

So it seems I would either need to go with a different Genelec/Neumann, or a different brand, hence my looking at the Adam Audio, where I would be able to get the S3Vs with a sub and a streamer for about the same price as the 8361s/KH420s. Genelec subs are quite expensive compared to other brands. I'm trying to find one that is respected but which can also fill a 120m3 living room/dining area/kitchen open floor plan.

I assume you talk about HoS? The price is a steal indeed. Worst case you drive to their shop in Basel in case there is trouble or sent them direct to Genelec?

 

[robithinker]

I assume you talk about HoS? The price is a steal indeed. Worst case you drive to their shop in Basel in case there is trouble or sent them direct to Genelec?

Exactly right. That is an option. Apparently if they don’t have something in stock they’re delivering times can be very long, as in many weeks.

 

[robithinker]

Unless the ADC in those are junk, no way you can hear the difference. My Genelec sound identical using either digital or analog inputs. The idea that you need to go all digital to the speakers will severely limit your choices, for no reason!

Welcome to ASR! I really have a difficult time with this YouTube nonsense, it creates so much confusion and causes bad choices and costs money. After some time here, hopefully you will be able to sort out all of the chaos out there!

Yeah, I agree. I am also loathe to buy speakers based on subjective impressions (part of why I like this site so much), so I read/watch reviews primarily for their technical information, . Given that studio monitors don’t have wide distribution outside the studio engineering market, there aren’t a whole lot of regular reviews or info on setup.

 

[Ron Texas]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh-150-monitor-review.39922/

Maybe below the OP's budget, but these look good.

 

[ferrellms]

‘Streamers’ are so reasonably priced, some playback software has built in PEQ, ( Roon/JRiver) and some dacs RME ADI series.
Cardioid response definitely helps with SBIR issues, hence my GGNTKT recommendation.
Keith

I will second this opinion - until you have heard cardioid speakers, don't buy anything. My Kiis are way better than my excellent-sounding Genelecs (which are way better than my B&W 805s were) and I have come to the conclusion that cardioid speakers are the only way to go for home listening (as opposed to pros who are able to spend a lot on room treatment). You will be amazed to hear how much of what you have been hearing, even from hi-end stuff, is due to room effects, ie. coloration. Cardioid speakers are a true paradigm shift. I am saying this from 50 years of audiophile know-it-all-ism and many hours of listening to tons of stuff of all types. Hopefully, cardioids will get less expensive as people hear what their recordings truly sound like.