Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[Shimrra Jamaane]

Dirac really dropped the ball on this to be honest.

We somehow have less information on ART than we do on Sony's 360 audio thing.

 

[pogo]

Lack of broad availability, lack of proper documentation.

What is missing in terms of documentation?
Btw. ART will be introduced in the next few weeks at DM (broad availability).

 

[Oddball]

Many thanks to all for some really interesting and helpful info re ART. I am digesting part of it, but some of it just can't get into my mind - likely a thick skull syndrome As Marantz owner, it seems that my ART issues will start relatively soon.

Based on the graphs and impressions, it seems that ART works pretty well and provides better frequency and decay response in certain rooms and systems, which is great. However, I see a comparisons to DL or DLBC, which does not give me the visibility into what to expect in my system that is running on Audy at the moment. Not many of such Audy systems, but there are some. Also my loft is irregular and 6000cft and thus SPL in bass range is a significant issue even with 7 "full range" speakers and 4 subs that are, at least by EU, measures, quite big.

I am using LFE+Main setting with all bed channels set to full-range and also sending the bass signal from these bed channels back to subs using 60/80hz 12dB low pass filter, depending on the response of individual channels. Also, distributing LFE to all bed channels (except center, which is also good to 30hz but don't want to congest it) at -4dB or -8dB depending on the individual channel response. I have 6 towers with 10" woofer each and F3 response is between 20-55hz, depending on the placement. Also bumping the house curve on the bed channels to some +7dB at 50hz, which rolls off significantly (sharp Q) after 100hz. Running the 4 subs quite hot compared to initial Audy calibration, some +15db (combo of sub gain and increased AVP volume, pretty much maxed out), and rolling them off steeply after 100hz, curve is relatively flat and for different presets rolling off at 20/30/40/50hz with different steepness.

All of the above gives me the bass SPL that is generally satisfactory for listening volumes up to -5dB, (which is the limit of my preference in 99% of cases anyway) and frequency response of +/-3db which is quite decent in this difficult room. Due to highly irregular room shape, decay times are not that bad for most of the bass range. If I rely solely on subs, they can't really get me the SPL I would like in the 50-100hz range (like look for cover when gunfight starts in Fury). As we all know, soundtrack mastering levels are vastly different, so the above levels will work well for all averagely (whatever than means?) mastered movies or shows - but for some will need to roll it off significantly (Fallout or Stranger Things e.g.) and for some older movies it will be decent but yeah, could be more (recently re-watched Tailor of Panama). I am not quite yet done with setting up this system and still have some sub placement optimization to do (and no time to do it), but it does sound quite good at the moment.

So the question is what should I expect ART to do for this setup where speakers are already "supporting" each other, but obviously without any (intentional) cancelations. I am kind of barely reaching the SPL that I want in this setup with maxing out pretty much all of its capability. Am I to expect that ART will improve the quality (which I think is reasonable to expect based on input so far) but at the expense of SPL? That would be a pretty bad answer as already have 11 speakers and 4 relatively big subs in the loft and really don't feel like getting more of them.

Sorry for the lengthy post and will appreciate any input.

 

[HighImpactAV]

Lack of broad availability, lack of proper documentation.

StormAudio has its own documentation for Dirac ART on its Knowledge Center.

 

[Dj7675]

StormAudio has its own documentation for Dirac ART on its Knowledge Center.

For sure. Lots of great info.

StormAudio x Dirac Live ART - STORMAUDIO - KNOWLEDGE CENTER - Knowledge Center

support-stormaudio.atlassian.net

 

[markus]

StormAudio has its own documentation for Dirac ART on its Knowledge Center.

Yep, that's the best source you can consult at the moment. However, "proper documentation" should go beyond that. Strange that you can't find such information on Dirac's own website.

 

[Great Sun Jester]

Yep, that's the best source you can consult at the moment. However, "proper documentation" should go beyond that. Strange that you can't find such information on Dirac's own website.

I would think that each make and model is going to have different functionality.

 

[markus]

I would think that each make and model is going to have different functionality.

That's not how Dirac Live worked in the past. There definitely were differences "under the hood" but the software always offered the same options and behavior.

 

[pogo]

I would think that each make and model is going to have different functionality.

... and 'problems'.
Previously there was more specific information about Storm at Dirac (Link), which has now been removed and is a good sign that other manufacturers will soon follow suit

 

[dlaloum]

Dirac really dropped the ball on this to be honest.

We are effectively in an extended Beta Test period for ART...

The limited release with Storm, gave Dirac a substantial but controlled test user base - mostly highly technical users too

So the upcoming releases on more mainstream platforms, will be ART's V1... and it will mature...

Reports remain overwhelmingly positive.

 

[pogo]

Which is to be expected with a game changer

 

[Frank207be]

Here is LFE channel REW measurements with ART correction, 7.2.6 setup. First picture has all speakers and two subs active. Next one has only subwoofer1 active. And the last picture has subwoofer1 turned off and sub2 and all speakers active. Both subs have 100Hz 24dB/oct lowpass filtering active. LFE channel is supported by other speakers to 150Hz.

I was planning to rely on my 4 beefy passive DIY subs for ART correction. They're powered by Crown XLS amps with no crossover applied (unlike most commercial subs) and I was hoping that my Denon A1H would allow them to do support up to 150Hz?

 

[TimoJ]

I was planning to rely on my 4 beefy passive DIY subs for ART correction. They're powered by Crown XLS amps with no crossover applied (unlike most commercial subs) and I was hoping that my Denon A1H would allow them to do support up to 150Hz?

It will, that 100Hz lowpass filter is on my Crown XLS amps, not ART or AVP/AVR.
I tested with higher filter values but 100Hz seems to be perfect for LFE (removing localisation of higher notes coming thru sub1). Of course I could use it only for sub1, but there are capable speakers near sub2 that easily cover 100-150Hz ART cancellation signals. But this is still testing phase of different settings and speaker positions etc.

 

[Frank207be]

It will, that 100Hz lowpass filter is on my Crown XLS amps, not ART or AVP/AVR.
I tested with higher filter values but 100Hz seems to be perfect for LFE (removing localisation of higher notes coming thru sub1). Of course I could use it only for sub1, but there are capable speakers near sub2 that easily cover 100-150Hz ART cancellation signals. But this is still testing phase of different settings and speaker positions etc.

So best practice would be only using the front speakers (if capable) and subs up to 150Hz and Atmos/surround and rear subwoofers only up to 100Hz? I'd rather use an ART support upper frequency limit if possible and allow the AVR/AVP to control all crossovers if possible?

And doesn't Dirac try to compensate for a subwoofer crossover? I also use Audyssey MultEQ-X and that EQ corrects my subs higher than 100Hz.

 

[Oddball]

Looks like my question is a bit complicated and Audy specific as no response. To simplify and translate to Storm world, has anyone had experience or heard difference between the big system with multiple subs and towers all around using PEQ/REW filters and using the Storm bass routing to overlap the bed channels and subs and to distribute LFE to the bed channels (i.e. no DLBC) vs ART?

 

[TimoJ]

So best practice would be only using the front speakers (if capable) and subs up to 150Hz and Atmos/surround and rear subwoofers only up to 100Hz? I'd rather use an ART support upper frequency limit if possible and allow the AVR/AVP to control all crossovers if possible?

And doesn't Dirac try to compensate for a subwoofer crossover? I also use Audyssey MultEQ-X and that EQ corrects my subs higher than 100Hz.

Not sure why you would use 100Hz? I use all speakers up to 150Hz and both subs (front/rear) 100Hz. And that 100Hz sub limit is only because LFE, for music I would use 150Hz also for subs. I will experiment more with this and change rear sub (sub2) to 250Hz lowpass and 150Hz ART support.

When Dirac detects that sub's usable range drops too much, it doesn't correct it above that point and sets curtain there (or you can set it manually). So in my case Dirac stops correcting subs above 100Hz and uses ART support from other speakers to cover that range.

 

[Richard G]

Btw. ART will be introduced in the next few weeks at DM (broad availability).

DM being … ?

 

[Richard G]

Get a StormAudio AVR for about $12000 and then about $700 in software?

Otherwise, wait for a larger company to get the go ahead and implementation.

The only current rumors are the Monoprice HTP-1. That would be $4000 plus $1000 in software

Have you any rumour updates, on the Monoprice or other brands?

Including a two channel system ?

 

[pogo]

See here: Link
DM = Denon Marantz
Two channel system --> NAD M66

 

[dlaloum]

Get a StormAudio AVR for about $12000 and then about $700 in software?

Otherwise, wait for a larger company to get the go ahead and implementation.

The only current rumors are the Monoprice HTP-1. That would be $4000 plus $1000 in software

The gentlemen at the Integra stand at CEDIA, also stated that the DTR8.4 would be getting ART...
However it remains a rumour, as no formal statement was issued