Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[TimoJ]

Are the colors adjustable?

There are color themes and dark/bright themes. And accessibility menu where you can select one of these:
.

 

[Frank207be]

Turning on DEQ will probably fix that bass cut for you. It's useful to measure with DEQ off and on to see what it's doing. One of the annoyances I find with Audyssey is that there are all sorts of poorly documented knobs and settings that have a big impact: e.g. Turn off MRC, turn on DEQ, enable Headroom Expansion.

I'll give DEQ a try once I finish my new riser but at the moment this feature impresses me less than what other users usually report.

 

[davidc]

One thing to note about this is while you can’t add an a speaker that is only a support speaker, you can add more speakers to the speaker layout. For example, if you have a 5.0 system, you could add height speakers or front wide speakers to the layout…
Then, during playback, you can..
-Play a stereo signal natively for example and the content will play from your L/R speakers only, but all the other speakers would be used for cancellation
-Play a 5.1 signal natively (no upmixing) and content would be just played through the 5 speakers.
So in a sense you can add other speakers for cancellation only if the content is played natively and a lower channel count than the number of speakers you have.

Understood now. And, from what I learned in the one of the Dirac Webinars, my system of large floor standing front speakers is great for ART

 

[davidc]

There are color themes and dark/bright themes. And accessibility menu where you can select one of these:
.
View attachment 356512

Oh man...! You've got to be kidding me! Perfect! I am a protanomouls trichromat. Easiest way to explain it is that I don't see reds as saturated as normals. When you think about that almost all "colors" are mixtures of other colors, consider that I don't see the red mixed in as saturated as normals. So, for example, purple is a mixture of red and blue. I won't see the red as much, so what appears as purple to a normal may look more bluish to me. Or, a pure red will just be difficult to see. It just won't be very bright. Or red and yellow make orange, but to me, an equal mixture looks more yellowish. Almost 8% of men, and 0.4% of women have a color deficiency, the majority with my type.

This is a good visual explanation

Google Image Result for https://www.color-meanings.com/wp-content/uploads/color-mixing-guide-1-1024x757.png

I'd love to find out who at Dirac came up with this. Somebody knew an eye doctor personally, or, somebody has a color deficiency.

And to clarify, are there any other settings just to pick a color for certain parts of the UI? Like a color pallet?

 

[Fore]

Monoprice HTP-1, Denon/Marantz also has mentioned possible ART support in 2024.

Any update on ART for the HTP 1?

 

[TimoJ]

And to clarify, are there any other settings just to pick a color for certain parts of the UI? Like a color pallet?

Sadly, no. Only preset themes. I'd like to have better adjustments for UI colors, I find them low contrast.

 

[TimoJ]

Any update on ART for the HTP 1?

Still in alpha testing.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

StormAudio ISP Evo immersive sound preamp/processor

One thing that interested me about the StormAudio ISP Evo is that, despite its obvious hi-fi function, it's more like a computer than a typical "prepro." While it does offer a few "legacy" analog inputs, it is for the most part all-digital, input to output, including network connections on both...

www.stereophile.com

@Kal Rubinson offers his subjective opinions on Dirac ART here.

Kal, I know the article is done, but one thing I was told is that if you use the “Spread” option for the graph for Dirac ART, it really highlights the strength over DLBC in terms of the predicted corrected results also having a much thinner spread. If you are allowed to post added screenshots here, that would be great (or even in the comment section of the Stereophile article).

Thanks for the suggestion, Unfortunately, I no longer have the ISP-EVO and can no longer access the data to improve the display.

 

[dlaloum]

I'll give DEQ a try once I finish my new riser but at the moment this feature impresses me less than what other users usually report.

It's a a perceptual loudness feature - it is based on a calibrated known point, and assumes that your recording is appropriately recorded to a calibrated level (movies almost invariably are... music almost invariably isn't)

If you are playing at reference level - then DEQ should do nothing!

If you are playing at lower levels, then DEQ should kick in progressively as the level drops to raise both the bass and treble.

All of which is to say - it may be working perfectly, and be doing nothing, due to your listening levels.

For music it can be a crapshoot - as the reference level is not part of the recording chain, so you may be listening to it louder or softer than intended, and DEQ would be affecting things or not depending on where it thinks things are on the loudness scale - but it has no way of knowing for (most) music recordings.

 

[Frank207be]

It's a a perceptual loudness feature - it is based on a calibrated known point, and assumes that your recording is appropriately recorded to a calibrated level (movies almost invariably are... music almost invariably isn't)

If you are playing at reference level - then DEQ should do nothing!

If you are playing at lower levels, then DEQ should kick in progressively as the level drops to raise both the bass and treble.

All of which is to say - it may be working perfectly, and be doing nothing, due to your listening levels.

For music it can be a crapshoot - as the reference level is not part of the recording chain, so you may be listening to it louder or softer than intended, and DEQ would be affecting things or not depending on where it thinks things are on the loudness scale - but it has no way of knowing for (most) music recordings.

I like to listen to music and movies randomly and while the 15dB DEQ setting (10, 5 and 0 are really too much) can add to the experience with certain movies, it indeed gets annoying with music playback. That's the n°1 reason for me to turn it off.

BTW today I discovered that preset 1 was selected so we were listening to MultEQ-X instead of Dirac. Yes MultEQ-X is more surround heavy but the difference between both is not night and day (at least with my system @ MLP in my room, YMMV).

 

[dlaloum]

Hmm

I like to listen to music and movies randomly and while the 15dB DEQ setting (10, 5 and 0 are really too much) can add to the experience with certain movies, it indeed gets annoying with music playback. That's the n°1 reason for me to turn it off.

BTW today I discovered that preset 1 was selected so we were listening to MultEQ-X instead of Dirac. Yes MultEQ-X is more surround heavy but the difference between both is not night and day (at least with my system @ MLP in my room, YMMV).

MQX should't have an impact on surround to front balance..., in theory it should be EQ-ing only, and what goes to each channel is determined by the decoder/mixer and not by MQX or Dirac... (in theory!) - having said that, it is possible that the EQ for the rears/surrounds is making them stand out more in the mix.... that would be a flaw! (tonal imbalance?)

 

[Atmosphered]

So, if you have a well treated room with acoustic absorption, bass traps, and different types of diffusion methods (usually 2D and 3D) is ART quite as "necessary" compared to having a room with little to no acoustic treatments? From people's description of ART it comes across as a kind of electronic means to "treating" a room.

Also, my room has Triad LCR's that were not designed to go much past 80 Hz as they are large sealed monitors, not towers, to be used in conjunction with subwoofers. ART seems to like a speaker with a lower usable frequency response to really work its "magic." I'm definitely not shopping for new speakers just to get the most out ART when I have DLBC multi-sub already.

 

[dlaloum]

So, if you have a well treated room with acoustic absorption, bass traps, and different types of diffusion methods (usually 2D and 3D) is ART quite as "necessary" compared to having a room with little to no acoustic treatments? From people's description of ART it comes across as a kind of electronic means to "treating" a room.

Also, my room has Triad LCR's that were not designed to go much past 80 Hz as they are large sealed monitors, not towers, to be used in conjunction with subwoofers. ART seems to like a speaker with a lower usable frequency response to really work its "magic." I'm definitely not shopping for new speakers just to get the most out ART when I have DLBC multi-sub already.

Often, unless they have a filter built in, sealed designs have a long slow tail of frequency response in the bass - ie: their bass response might be at substantially lower levels, but it extends further and drops at a much lower rate of db/hz.... Given ART treatment only requires substantially lower SPL than the primary signal being treated, this may be sufficient.

I have not seen this being discussed, and Dirac ART may or may not support it - but in theory, a speaker that nominally is frequency limited to 80Hz - may have enough ability down at 40Hz to provide "support" - the limit point is typically gauged at the -3db or -6db point - if the tail is long enough and the slope is gentle, 40Hz might be at -10db - and that might work just fine!

 

[pogo]

I have not seen this being discussed, and Dirac ART may or may not support it

ART support it. This was once mentioned in a video.

 

[abdo123]

. Given ART treatment only requires substantially lower SPL than the primary signal being treated .

Is there any source for this statement ?

Dirac have been very silent about this whole thing.

 

[dlaloum]

Is there any source for this statement ?

Dirac have been very silent about this whole thing.

An observation from users of StormAudio's ART deployment - the support speakers, when properly configured, are not audible - that implies that the support signal going through them is at a substantially lower level (otherwise it would be audible! - which would spoil the effect!)

So it is pretty obvious.

During some of the Dirac interviews, the question was asked and answered, that the support signal was lower level and therefore not audible.

But more details and explanations would be nice!

 

[TimoJ]

I have not seen this being discussed, and Dirac ART may or may not support it - but in theory, a speaker that nominally is frequency limited to 80Hz - may have enough ability down at 40Hz to provide "support" - the limit point is typically gauged at the -3db or -6db point - if the tail is long enough and the slope is gentle, 40Hz might be at -10db - and that might work just fine!

But Dirac will then use target curve to flatten that 40Hz drop, so it may put there up to +10dB boost. And that 40Hz (or what ever you select) is not just ART lower support frequency, it's also crossover frequency for that speaker. So if you use multichannel material that outputs lots of bass there, bad things could happen with that speaker. I think it could work fine with 2 channel stereo (without upmixer).

 

[pogo]

It was actually all explained in the "StormAudio and Dirac Live Active Room Treatment" webinar on YT.

 

[stevenswall]

I also hope the JBL SDP-55 and 58 will get ART. It's the only 'affordable' AVP that has digital outputs.
Not that I can afford it at all but the all digital Genelec folks here will probably appreciate it

I had a JBL SDP 55 with the 58 upgrades and all services performed on it.

Dante is the digital output system, and it's broken on the JBL units: there are pops from the unit when you have Avio adaptors plugged in to get digital output.

Tested with multiple dongles, multiple network switches, and multiple Genelec speakers.

I performed all troubleshooting steps that Harman support presented to me, but then found out there was a firmware issue they knew about and hadn't been able to fix for over a year.

"Good morning

It's IMS0024523 -- it has indeed been reproduced. The DSP engineers work on the Dante side of things, too, but if there are any DSP updates, it'll be to resolve that, if they're able to do so."

This was from September of last year. Just sold it a month ago to someone using the XLR outputs, but the JBL SDP 55 is broken with Dante and it's not resolvable with the Dante adaptors to get AES/EBU from Genelecs.

Other people say they aren't experiencing this with Dante enabled amps, and maybe that's true, but I'm not sure what solution one would use for 8 channels of Dante to AES for a reasonable price.

I'm now using a Monoprice HTP1... Which is also likely busted as biased/auto/etc switching on the inputs doesn't resolve the intermittent silence issue from an Nvidia Shield or Nintendo Switch.

Sometimes I miss my $200 Dolby DP564. It could only decode Dolby formats, but had digital+analog output and didn't have the issues like these other units costing 20x as much.

Doesn't matter if the SDP 55 or the HTP1 support ART, which I really hope for, if they have issues like this.

Just wish Genelec would make a surround decoder that actually worked, as my next option will likely be WiSA dongles for everything.

 

[abdo123]

An observation from users of StormAudio's ART deployment - the support speakers, when properly configured, are not audible - that implies that the support signal going through them is at a substantially lower level (otherwise it would be audible! - which would spoil the effect!)

So it is pretty obvious.

During some of the Dirac interviews, the question was asked and answered, that the support signal was lower level and therefore not audible.

But more details and explanations would be nice!

I don’t buy this, lower in level i can go behind but so low to the point that it’s not audible?

If it’s not audible then the issues that it was counteracting weren’t audible either.

I think this depends on the number of support speakers and obviously how the algorithm itself works which Dirac has been almost suspiciously secretive about.