Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[Emlin]

Yes it was the horse farts that caused the medieval warming period

It was hotter in the Medieval Warm Period than it is today

Even though there were many more horses after? You are talking bullshit about horseshit.

 

[Positivevibrations]

Even though there were many more horses after? You are talking bullshit about horseshit.

Guess it was those damn buffalo!

 

[Emlin]

Guess it was those damn buffalo!

Ignore button deployed.

 

[Positivevibrations]

Anyways all jokes aside, this is how the consumer adoption process works. It’s not the average consumer who dictates if a product will be successful or not. It’s the marketing team behind the product. Once over that 50% adoption hump, it’s all downhill. A Stereophile article could help that process.

 

[Vacceo]

Pros definitely have a standard but "market standards" for consumers don't exist unless consumers demand it and right now, consumers really don't care - they're just happy if they have working HDMI > eARC which ironically is a market standard that is still fraught with compatibility issues between different TV models, AVRs and soundbars. Or maybe more relevantly - who's paying for the cost of establishing, maintaining and certifying a market standard that is only relevant to a tiny tiny minority of this market? Creating and operating a market standard is expensive and nobody wants to be involved because it is a thankless job that does not drive sales

I wonder how many users go beyond a sound bar. Because I have the feeling we are a tiny, tiny minority that goes for genuine multichannel.

Perhaps the pandemic has changed the tendency.

 

[Keith_W]

Anyways all jokes aside, this is how the consumer adoption process works. It’s not the average consumer who dictates if a product will be successful or not. It’s the marketing team behind the product. Once over that 50% adoption hump, it’s all downhill. A Stereophile article could help that process.

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Interesting. I am not sure I agree with "late majority" and "laggards" being poorly educated with low status though. A good reason for people not to purchase new technology is because old tech works just fine. Some examples - I won't purchase an electric car (yet) because charging infrastructure is poor for some of the driving that I have to do. Also, whilst choice is improving, it is not quite there yet. I am going to wait until charging infrastructure and choice improves. Another example are sous-vide machines and induction cooktops. I own a SV machine, but i'll bet that most of you don't - not because you are "uneducated" or "low status", but because you do not see a need for it. It's the same way I feel about induction cooktops - gas works just fine, and I don't want to change my pots and pans to use induction. Then there's our hobby - there is no question that DSP produces superior results, at a cost of a learning curve and hardware changes (sometimes pretty substantial hardware changes). If you are happy with what you have, there is no need to change.

 

[Positivevibrations]

Interesting. I am not sure I agree with "late majority" and "laggards" being poorly educated with low status though. A good reason for people not to purchase new technology is because old tech works just fine. Some examples - I won't purchase an electric car (yet) because charging infrastructure is poor for some of the driving that I have to do. Also, whilst choice is improving, it is not quite there yet. I am going to wait until charging infrastructure and choice improves. Another example are sous-vide machines and induction cooktops. I own a SV machine, but i'll bet that most of you don't - not because you are "uneducated" or "low status", but because you do not see a need for it. It's the same way I feel about induction cooktops - gas works just fine, and I don't want to change my pots and pans to use induction. Then there's our hobby - there is no question that DSP produces superior results, at a cost of a learning curve and hardware changes (sometimes pretty substantial hardware changes). If you are happy with what you have, there is no need to change.

The original source of this study was way back in 1943. When folks were much less sensitive to direct language. Here’s the original curve and description. It can be explained in many ways, but the data is sound either way. That’s why it’s so broadly used in marketing schools to this day.

 

[Axo1989]

The original source of this study was way back in 1943. When folks were much less sensitive to direct language. Here’s the original curve and description. It can be explained in many ways, but the data is sound either way. That’s why it’s so broadly used in marketing schools to this day.
View attachment 305659

Yes the category texts are better in this version, with less of the somewhat presumptuous socio-economic assumptions. I can fall into any of these bands, depending on the product/service in question. My education level doesn't change (although my knowledge and social interactions relevant to the specific product/service might).

 

[Positivevibrations]

Yes the category texts are better in this version, with less of the somewhat presumptuous socio-economic assumptions. I can fall into any of these bands, depending on the product/service in question. My education level doesn't change (although my knowledge and social interactions relevant to the specific product/service might).

The thing is there really is people in different socioeconomic situations. And if we pretend there isn’t, the data gets skewed. Science is always about facts not feelings.

 

[Axo1989]

The thing is there really is [sic] people in different socioeconomic situations.

Of course there are.

And if we pretend there isn’t the data gets skewed. Science is always about facts not feelings.

But as @Keith_W noted, assumptions about eg education levels in the revised category descriptions (your initial post) appear over-generalised. The original version contains less assumptions. The later version looks like a non-scientific re-work. If there's a citation, please post so we can see if the added statements are justified.

 

[phn]

Pros definitely have a standard but "market standards" for consumers don't exist unless consumers demand it and right now, consumers really don't care - they're just happy if they have working HDMI > eARC which ironically is a market standard that is still fraught with compatibility issues between different TV models, AVRs and soundbars. Or maybe more relevantly - who's paying for the cost of establishing, maintaining and certifying a market standard that is only relevant to a tiny tiny minority of this market? Creating and operating a market standard is expensive and nobody wants to be involved because it is a thankless job that does not drive sales

It doesn't help that there's basically (almost) no way to tell if your HDMI cable is up for the job in hand, or if it's an old spec one. Having recently upgraded my AVR I recycled all my old HDMI cables and replaced them with HDMI 2.1 8K ones.

Despite having no 8K sources in foreseeable future. Heck, I even don't have a 4K telly, but an HD one, with an HD projector.

 

[cputoaster]

Planned.

Great! I am currently using Dante, but hate the wires. You could maybe also see if there would be WIFI capable standards / extensions of standards on the horizon, specifically for multi-channel (>8) home movie setups that don't need low latency from the source (naturally, the speakers need to be very low-latency synchronized between themselves for good spacial sound). AES67 seems to have many things there already, but somehow does not allow for larger buffers / delays.

 

[Positivevibrations]

Great! I am currently using Dante, but hate the wires. You could maybe also see if there would be WIFI capable standards / extensions of standards on the horizon, specifically for multi-channel (>8) home movie setups that don't need low latency from the source (naturally, the speakers need to be very low-latency synchronized between themselves for good spacial sound). AES67 seems to have many things there already, but somehow does not allow for larger buffers / delays.

The delays are handled in the AVP. Any AVP with an AES67 output option will be clock synced to the AES67 board. So any delays you add in the AVP will be in perfect sync with the downstream AES67 endpoints.

The only wifi based multichannel solution is WiSA. Which is limited to 8 channels

Technology Products

WiSA technologies ensure the highest quality audio is transmitted and received—with stunning quality, and perfect synchronization.

www.wisatechnologies.com

 

[simple6]

The most probable way an alternative solution to audio delivery can be brought to market and seek wider adoption is if tech companies throw serious money at it. Even better if they create their own standard. Some kind of audio multichannel wifi. Thinking of Sony, Apple, Amazon, Sonos, Google.

 

[juliangst]

B&O might be the largest company that does surround sound wirelessly and they also use WiSa.

 

[Andysu]

B&O might be the largest company that does surround sound wirelessly and they also use WiSa.

kind of like my JBL go3 wireless 4.5watts if attached connected to full range JBL professional may have lower lows , where go3 as it is , not bad roll off around 90Hz , 80Hz getting faint even with holding it vibration feel , 70Hz getting fainter 60Hz and 50Hz forget it speaker is too tiny but even as is puts loud fair SPL dB , , those early day JBL at the movies 1926 when movies only had sound effect music , 1927 they had dialog music effect , high sensitivity speaker with limited frequency range , magnets i think had device for it , amplifiers limited frequency range and power output , yet 1926

oh , just had a delivery , been relaxing in bed , got up package handed , closed door then went dizzy and struggled few feet , then lost all strength then collapsed to the floor
i have low blood pressure brought on by , something starts in tummy and causes a trigger , pain physical pain , blood , ( yes seen a doctor knows all about it ) yet he is puzzled , even the hospital is puzzled and they have all this so called technology , ( i collapsed ) not collapsed to the floor in no years , first was in kitchen and didn't even know how i managed to end up laying on the floor concrete , banging my head against floor , having a seizure , left forehead often feels at times now ,

so i be relaxing , i'm retired , plenty of younger people can run around until one no day , you will have to retire early

scary when collapsing i slowly learned against the door and then flopped to the floor as blood pressure can't stabilise my legs , kinder like , psi pounds per square inch became miss-balanced in pressure

so not many wireless speakers , JBL go3 is only one and i'm impressed with it , anyway gettibg faint headed again laying on bed , even low blood pressure affects tinnitus i hear the hissing fading , and i know why that is , feels like , dying and this has been ongoing many no years now , so i have felt like died many times over and its scary

would show picture in bed with thumbs down , yeah sod it , i will show , shows human i am , staying in bed until blood pressure has stabilised could last 1hr or maybe 16hrs

 

[Andysu]

I don’t think so. I hope to get my laptop working and will take measurements at each set with ART enabled. But subjectively it sounds much much better at all seats. Not sure if the improvement is from decay or improved frequency response or improvement in the 80-150hz which tends to bel an issue in my room.

need 20100 PEQ filter bands , i don't use art , it says what how many filters can be applied ? how many can be actually applied for all the 32 channels , per channel how many can be applied , i can't be asked with stormaudio i have , i find it to be hassle , connect to stromaudio , connect to drac live art , pink noise check all channels , frequency sweep all channels ( only once or i can use multiplex mics still do it once ) but drac always says , room is noisy , what utter rubbish it is , i can put pink noise from stormaudio ( generator ) Eq the speakers manually without

quote horse passing wind , it seems that way , art is rubbish the Eq of rubbish and can it apply 20100 PEQ per channel , narrow band Q bandwidth so i can address in detail as all sine wave bands are of narrow range , i need address EQ that way , not cut corners using Q bandwidth widen this much and cut the frequencies down , i know that is cutting some cheap corners , it works or does it really or not really work , to me i'm wasting my time with less then 20100 PEQ , i want them now not next no week , now

 

[Spocko]

I wonder how many users go beyond a sound bar. Because I have the feeling we are a tiny, tiny minority that goes for genuine multichannel.

Perhaps the pandemic has changed the tendency.

Tiny very tiny mostly due to expense - people complain about expensive $800 soundbars so it's unlikely they want to go beyond.

 

[Spocko]

It doesn't help that there's basically (almost) no way to tell if your HDMI cable is up for the job in hand, or if it's an old spec one. Having recently upgraded my AVR I recycled all my old HDMI cables and replaced them with HDMI 2.1 8K ones.

Despite having no 8K sources in foreseeable future. Heck, I even don't have a 4K telly, but an HD one, with an HD projector.

Yep, and it also doesn't help that HDMI cables have a shelf life - it's like the lottery, sometimes a cable lasts for years while other times it dies after 8 months but until you start troubleshooting, you don't know if it's the cable, the source or TV!

 

[Dj7675]

need 20100 PEQ filter bands , i don't use art , it says what how many filters can be applied ? how many can be actually applied for all the 32 channels , per channel how many can be applied , i can't be asked with stormaudio i have , i find it to be hassle , connect to stromaudio , connect to drac live art , pink noise check all channels , frequency sweep all channels ( only once or i can use multiplex mics still do it once ) but drac always says , room is noisy , what utter rubbish it is , i can put pink noise from stormaudio ( generator ) Eq the speakers manually without

quote horse passing wind , it seems that way , art is rubbish the Eq of rubbish and can it apply 20100 PEQ per channel , narrow band Q bandwidth so i can address in detail as all sine wave bands are of narrow range , i need address EQ that way , not cut corners using Q bandwidth widen this much and cut the frequencies down , i know that is cutting some cheap corners , it works or does it really or not really work , to me i'm wasting my time with less then 20100 PEQ , i want them now not next no week , now

I understand you have a quite complex system and it seems you are quite skilled with manual calibration and it meets your needs (which are quite complex using a variety of gear).
If I understand correctly you have not gotten Dirac or ART to work at all, have not heard either, but consider them “Rubbish”. Getting good manual results such as you get and Dirac Live and Dirac ART getting excellent results are not mutually exclusive. Both can be true. Having such critical opinions of things you have not even used or heard seems not to be a genuine criticism. If you had heard Dirac Live or Dirac Art and done some A/B comparison it would seem much more valuable. As is, it seems that any modern AV gear or advances in EQ are rubbish to you which is fine. But it doesn’t necessarily make it so… Dirac ART actually works tremendously well and it is unfortunate in my opinion for you to trash something you have neither heard nor used. In case you want to get Dirac working, this site is quite helpful setting levels for Dirac.

Configure microphone and setting speaker levels for measurements in Dirac Live v2 & v3