A RedZone DAC that's much better subjectively sounding than a BlueZone DAC?!

[Wombat]

Red Zone = Texas; Blue Zone = California

Next we will be talking about red and blue pills.

Which one would be prescribed for fact based evaluation?

 

[sq225917]

Obviously the op is just trolling, but is there any test data to show that random Joe's actually do prefer better measuring kit over worse measuring kit (speakers excluded)

 

[Jimbob54]

Obviously the op is just trolling, but is there any test data to show that random Joe's actually do prefer better measuring kit over worse measuring kit (speakers excluded)

Not sure he is trolling TBH, though its often hard to tell!

I wondered the same . Any proper tests on what folks do prefer. What riles folk on this forum up is NOT " I prefer bad dac to good dac". Its "Bad DAC is BETTER than good DAC". Or ;

-Night and day differences in sighted listening
-"I know there is something in the sound the measurements dont show which is what makes it better"

But best as I can tell, no one has done a properly conducted blind study to simply see whether a group of listeners prefer bad dac to good dac or the opposite. Think most here would say the bad dac would have to be terribly executed to even tell the difference, so whats the point.

 

[sq225917]

I agree, people are want to prefer all sorts of distortion, and it's perfectly valid that they do, it's not high fidelity, but so what?

I have some friends with atrocious systems, tiny little speakers pushed past the limit, valve amps like syrup, they love them and wouldnt swap them for a more neutral setup if you paid them.

 

[Jimbob54]

I agree, people are want to prefer all sorts of distortion, and it's perfectly valid that they do, it's not high fidelity, but so what?

I have some friends with atrocious systems, tiny little speakers pushed past the limit, valve amps like syrup, they love them and wouldnt swap them for a more neutral setup if you paid them.

Given where we are with access to technology and software, some of which even I can understand, has to be better to start with very clean and dirty it up to taste.

 

[sq225917]

That would be logical, but nothing about people is logical.

 

[Wombat]

Systems with choices for signal resolution, EQ, loudspeaker management, room management, preferred 'curves', room specific positionings, soundstage, etc. are too hard for other than geeky enthusiasts who forget the 'bubble' that they live in does not reflect the majority of 'HiFi' music listeners.

Real life is that the system has to fit in a room, that also has to meet the different needs of other users, and at somewhat lower budget levels than the geeks can justify.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Has any of you heard a RedZone DAC with green and blue zone killing potential?

IME most of the red zone DACs would be indistinguishable from the others listening to a typical music recording.
The recording itself is not likely to have a SNR which would seriously tax most in the red zone.
Unless one had a non-flat FR or eccentric reconstruction filter any difference in SQ would be vanishingly small.

 

[Jimbob54]

Systems with choices for signal resolution, EQ, loudspeaker management, room management, preferred 'curves', room specific positionings, soundstage, etc. are too hard for other than geeky enthusiasts who forget the 'bubble' that they live in does not reflect the majority of 'HiFi' music listeners.

Real life is that the system has to fit in a room, that also has to meet the different needs of other users, and at somewhat lower budget levels than the geeks can justify.

Very true also. So isn't the ideal kit for that market cheap, transparent and as powerful as possible within price constraints? Anything that doesn't deliver those 3 to a substantial degree shouldn't be worth touching?

Edit which then brings us to speakers. I had to get rid due to bloody cat. If I had to start again I'm sure I could source suitable electrics per above. Not a clue how as a budget hifi user I'd start looking at speakers.

 

[Jimbob54]

IME most of the red zone DACs would be indistinguishable from the others listening to a typical music recording.
The recording itself is not likely to have a SNR which would seriously tax most in the red zone.
Unless one had a non-flat FR or eccentric reconstruction filter any difference in SQ would be vanishingly small.

And if the price was low then no harm, no foul. I think we all know the issue with many of the lower ranking products.

 

[mansr]

I agree, people are want to prefer all sorts of distortion, and it's perfectly valid that they do, it's not high fidelity, but so what?

I have some friends with atrocious systems, tiny little speakers pushed past the limit, valve amps like syrup, they love them and wouldnt swap them for a more neutral setup if you paid them.

Although my audio setup is quite modest by audiophile standards, it is still considerably better than what most people have. Friends who visit generally do think it sounds good. They just don't care enough to improve their own.

 

[Eetu]

There's a lot of people that love 'vintage' sound and keep away from so-called sterile/digital/clinical sound. A member here on ASR said he subjectively preferred the Schiit Modi Multibit over the Topping E30. 2n harmonics / euphonic distortion perhaps? Nothing wrong with that.

 

[watchnerd]

There's a lot of people that love 'vintage' sound and keep away from so-called sterile/digital/clinical sound. A member here on ASR said he subjectively preferred the Schiit Modi Multibit over the Topping E30. 2n harmonics / euphonic distortion perhaps? Nothing wrong with that.

Just go vinyl + tubes, in that case.

 

[Eetu]

Just go vinyl + tubes, in that case.

Yeah, I recommended going tubes as well. Just wanted to share a specific type of listener who might prefer a red tier DAC over the ones that measure best.

 

[Alexanderc]

IME most of the red zone DACs would be indistinguishable from the others listening to a typical music recording.
The recording itself is not likely to have a SNR which would seriously tax most in the red zone.
Unless one had a non-flat FR or eccentric reconstruction filter any difference in SQ would be vanishingly small.

This, to me, seems like the answer the OP needs (if it was a real question). If someone is not concerned about excellence in engineering and is willing to be honest with themselves (or do a proper blind test), then get whatever DAC looks pretty because they don’t sound different.

 

[Wes]

I may have missed this in all the speculation but has anyone done a listening test between a red zone and and a green zone DAC?

 

[Jimbob54]

I may have missed this in all the speculation but has anyone done a listening test between a red zone and and a green zone DAC?

I'm team blue. Not in my credo

 

[mansr]

I want to know if there are any red-shirt DACs.

 

[Jimbob54]

OK

I have a blue and a yellow- both highly portable. Anyone got a red portable?

I have a passive RCA switcher too. Anyone got a couple of 3.5mm to RCA cables, time to spare and a partner willing to play with wires and a blindfold?

 

[Koeitje]

What's redzone? Anything below 90dB?

I don't even play my speakers to 80dB, hence such levels of distortions are not even physic-ally audible.

I have a DAC at 0.1% and I felt weird listening to that. With fixes to improve it to 0.03%, the weirdness is gone.

So even among the red zone only a couple of these would have an audible sound character:

Its percentiles, so red is the bottom 25%. So the cut-off might change over time when we get even more measurements.