A RedZone DAC that's much better subjectively sounding than a BlueZone DAC?!

[BDWoody]

And I am a new member. So, pls do excuse my lack of knowledge. I am reading the reviews for several months now, but added my first comment today.

Welcome!
Hope to see more posts.

 

[Asylum Seeker]

The OP is not trolling. He is the Mod at NoBSBudgetAudio FB group. He's a little more disparaging of objectivism over there. For a group with noBS in the name there's quite a bit of it. He's only given you a taste of it here. Caveat emptor.

 

[Jimbob54]

The OP is not trolling. He is the Mod at NoBSBudgetAudio FB group. He's a little more disparaging of objectivism over there. For a group with noBS in the name there's quite a bit of it. He's only given you a taste of it here. Caveat emptor.

Does that role go above or below 3rd Grade Book Monitor on ones CV ;-)

 

[Koeitje]

The OP is not trolling. He is the Mod at NoBSBudgetAudio FB group. He's a little more disparaging of objectivism over there. For a group with noBS in the name there's quite a bit of it. He's only given you a taste of it here. Caveat emptor.

You would think that budget audiophiles would love this website, because you can buy high-quality electronics for little money.

 

[Jimbob54]

Does that role go above or below 3rd Grade Book Monitor on ones CV ;-)

Just joshing. Not aware @Thomas savage has seen any career benefits from his tenure as Head Keeper here.

 

[JeffS7444]

Taking the OP's inquiry at face value, no I'm not aware of any crap-DAC mojo unless audible noise and faint tones are your thing. But on the other hand, I do have a sense of how one can make digital sound more like classic moving magnet phono: Start rolling off high frequencies starting from about 5 kHz, pretty much eliminating it by about 12 kHz, then add a touch of white noise back in to add "air". Feel free to use this idea, royalty-free!

 

[confucius_zero]

He's a little more disparaging of objectivism over there.

Thx for staying on subject and for promoting a small facebook group that loves ASR.

I can't see why I'm disparaging of objectivism as I also work at an objectivist company and have purchased more than thousands of dollars worth of audiogear which have yielded great performance thanks to knowledge from ASR.

I ask this question to demystify the claims found in ASR, most of them trying to disregard the measurement data as inaudible and negligible after a certain "subjective" threshold (which they aren't).

 

[Frank Dernie]

Taking the OP's inquiry at face value, no I'm not aware of any crap-DAC mojo unless audible noise and faint tones are your thing. But on the other hand, I do have a sense of how one can make digital sound more like classic moving magnet phono: Start rolling off high frequencies starting from about 5 kHz, pretty much eliminating it by about 12 kHz, then add a touch of white noise back in to add "air". Feel free to use this idea, royalty-free!

A lot of moving coils too, Koetsus more expensive models, for example. The added noise definitely gives a sense of spaciousness, I've tried it - though about 20 years ago now.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I ask this question to demystify the claims found in ASR, most of them trying to disregard the measurement data as inaudible and negligible after a certain "subjective" threshold (which they aren't).

Do you mean that you, personally, can hear a noise at, for example, -96dB if your volume control is set at the normal listening level?
If you can, I can not, do you imagine that you would also be able to detect a distortion product at that level whilst listening to music at, say -15dB?

I have been making recordings for decades.
I have never seen a music signal varying enough for most of the DACs here to be incapable of reproducing it perfectly, certainly ¾ of them and probably half of the red ones.
What is your reason for thinking for thinking these incredibly low levels of distortion and noise may be audible?

 

[confucius_zero]

What is your reason for thinking for thinking these incredibly low levels of distortion and noise may be audible?

minute variable noise = variable macro-micro dynamics, macro-micro details, stage expansion or lack-of in nearly every piece of ASR vetted equipment I've purchased since the discovery of this website. Not every DB was beneficial but it helped to reveal more information within the space of 2 speakers.

I'm an audiophile therefore I enjoy over-extending my ear sensitivity to things "professionals for decades in history of man with multiple awards" choose to care more or less about and understanding the numbers behind them.

 

[Frank Dernie]

minute variable noise = variable macro-micro dynamics, macro-micro details, stage expansion or lack-of in nearly every piece of ASR vetted equipment I've purchased since the discovery of this website. Not every DB was beneficial but it helped to reveal more information within the space of 2 speakers.

I'm an audiophile therefore I enjoy over-extending my ear sensitivity to things "professionals for decades in history of man with multiple awards" choose to care more or less about and understanding the numbers behind them.

So you do believe that you can hear a sound whilst the music is being played that you would not be able to hear if it was played in a silent room, as macro or micro dynamics?

 

[confucius_zero]

So you do believe that you can hear a sound whilst the music is being played that you would not be able to hear if it was played in a silent room, as macro or micro dynamics?

Please stay on subject of the thread, if you wish to debate hearing ability, you can start your own But to answer your question, an absolute yes.

 

[Jimbob54]

OK, I'll revert to the original post. Have you heard a red zone DAC with Blue or Green "killing" potential? To the best of my knowledge no one including yourself has proffered any examples. Given we know you have invested your own time in this pursuit and have an active role on other forums any suggestions @confucius_zero ?

 

[confucius_zero]

Have you heard a red zone DAC with Blue or Green "killing" potential? To the best of my knowledge no one including yourself has proffered any examples.

Aside from many anecdotal cases of modi multibits that have trampled over the great topping D series, I have to agree with this. Aside from deniers of audible differences, the color rating of the greater implementations yielded improvements.

 

[JeffS7444]

minute variable noise = variable macro-micro dynamics, macro-micro details, stage expansion or lack-of in nearly every piece of ASR vetted equipment I've purchased since the discovery of this website.
...
I'm an audiophile therefore I enjoy over-extending my ear sensitivity to things "professionals for decades in history of man with multiple awards" choose to care more or less about and understanding the numbers behind them.

Wouldn't it be more productive to explore this in the form of some sort of add-on effects processor? Because all I really want out of my DAC is to faithfully reproduce what's on the recording without editorializing in the form of "stage expansion" and what-not. Carver's "Sonic Holography" might be worth a look, and Behringer DEQ2496 also offers something of the sort. And the advantage of doing things in this manner is that the effects are optional.

 

[confucius_zero]

what I really want out of my DAC is to faithfully reproduce what's on the recording without editorializing

more information on the "faithfulness of recording" could be a form of add-on effect expansion just like a 42mp picture (blue zone) will necessarily add more pixel level detail over a 2mp picture (all things equal aside from mp including quality of electronics) (red zone) to those who can appreciate such quantity (not satisfied by a 720p screen etc...)

 

[mansr]

more information on the "faithfulness of recording" could be a form of add-on effect expansion just like a 42mp picture (blue zone) will necessarily add more pixel level detail over a 2mp picture (all things equal aside from mp including quality of electronics) (red zone) to those who can appreciate such quantity

My eyesight is so good I can make out Russell's teapot unaided.

 

[Frank Dernie]

But to answer your question, an absolute yes.

Well I am an engineer and music lover not an Audiophile.

 

[BDWoody]

But to answer your question, an absolute yes.

Uh huh...

 

[Ron Texas]

The Schiit Yaggi is red zone DAC. It costs a steep $2400. When introduced it received many glowing reviews. The design is weird as it uses a d to a chip which was not recommended for audio by it's manufacturer. Either the Yaggi is a case of the emperor's new cloths, corruption or some other kind of mass insanity, or there is something about the content of the noise and distortion which makes it sound good or different to people who who have listened to many DAC's