A new $7000 CD Player? Insane.

[Livnmuskoka]

Do you have any reliability data to back this up, or are you just making assumptions based on A) your personal experience with Topping B) The price of the Michi?

I don't care what you say, I don't have to defend Topping, because while they only work briefly, they measure amazing! Long live chi-fi!
Or not live very long, whatever, because they measure awesome!

 

[EJ3]

I don't care what you say, I don't have to defend Topping, because while they only work briefly, they measure amazing! Long live chi-fi!
Or not live very long, whatever, because they measure awesome!

I don't like keeping the landfills full by constant replacement of things. I'd much rather pay 5 times the price & not have the aggregation of constant replacement.
I'd rather it be durable enough to be worth repairing.

 

[Roland68]

Whoever buys a Michi Q5 will have to tolerate looking at and listening to an excellent sounding CD player and DAC for probably 30+ years, because the thing will probably never die. What a piece of crap.
Topping products are awesome, because when it breaks in 2 weeks like mine did, you get to search and look for something else new and exciting to buy, and that's what it's all about.
Some people will only get to use 1 extremely expensive $7,000 Michi Q5 for 30 years, and I'll get to buy and replace about 780 broken Topping's in that time. And that'll cost about $156,000, but it's spread out over 30 years so it's much cheaper than paying $7,000 all at once.
"High quality" gear is for suckers.

How do you come up with something like that?
My experience is completely different.

Firstly, Rotel uses the same cheap CD drives and laser units as those used in current CD players costing €150 - €300 and are just as prone to failure.
And there is a 0% guarantee that replacements will be available in 6 or 10 years.

Rotel devices are not of bad quality, but the defective devices for sale from such a relatively small brand (e.g. compared to Sony or Yamaha), many of which can no longer be repaired by a Rotel workshop, show that it is not of the highest standard either.

 

[JSmith]

chi-fi

Please, don't do that...

Let's Avoid the Term Chi-Fi

I often see the use of the term "Chi Fi" to describe audio products from China. I see the intention and don't think anyone is trying to be racist and what have you. Still, I like us to show the highest respect to products from around the world. As avid readers of this forum know...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[Thighsofsteel]

Whoever buys a Michi Q5 will have to tolerate looking at and listening to an excellent sounding CD player and DAC for probably 30+ years, because the thing will probably never die. What a piece of crap.
Topping products are awesome, because when it breaks in 2 weeks like mine did, you get to search and look for something else new and exciting to buy, and that's what it's all about.
Some people will only get to use 1 extremely expensive $7,000 Michi Q5 for 30 years, and I'll get to buy and replace about 780 broken Topping's in that time. And that'll cost about $156,000, but it's spread out over 30 years so it's much cheaper than paying $7,000 all at once.
"High quality" gear is for suckers.

Why didn’t you get your topping replaced under warranty?

 

[Joe Smith]

There surely are players between the two quality extremes...that's the equipment most of us tend to have.

I'm still using my basic Onkyo CD deck from 1987 in one of my systems; it has worked flawlessly for 38 years now and cost, I believe, about $300 when I purchased.

I like high-quality gear, I just don't believe that always equates to a high price.

 

[Mart68]

I don't care what you say, I don't have to defend Topping, because while they only work briefly, they measure amazing! Long live chi-fi!
Or not live very long, whatever, because they measure awesome!

This is just anecdotal and so can be countered with anecdote - I used Topping E30 for three years, no issues.

Whilst I agree generally with the maxim 'Buy cheap buy twice' you have to bear in mind not everyone has a ton of money to spend on hi-fi. That they can get impeccable performance for a couple of hundred is not a bad thing.

I considered buying a Michi pre-amp, but the styling is just too ugly.

 

[Roland68]

There surely are players between the two quality extremes...that's the equipment most of us tend to have.

I'm still using my basic Onkyo CD deck from 1987 in one of my systems; it has worked flawlessly for 38 years now and cost, I believe, about $300 when I purchased.

I like high-quality gear, I just don't believe that always equates to a high price.

Unfortunately, and to my great regret, you are wrong, especially when it comes to CD players.
Nowadays, you can find the same drives in HiFi CD players for €150-300 that you can find in CD players for several thousand €/$, such as the Rotel player mentioned here.

In the past, there were many high-quality and good CD drives with high-quality lasers, and by that I mean normal drives and not Philips CDM or similar. The quality of both CD drives and lasers has been declining considerably for 20 years. The quality of the drives that were installed in a Technics CD player for DM 200-300 (€100-150) in 2000-2002, for example, you can no longer find in CD players for several thousand €. Apart from exotic models such as Teac VRDS or special belt drives.
Even replacement drives and lasers, where available, often do not come anywhere close to the service life of the original equipment.

I have good contact with a few service workshops, including two independent ones, who can tell you all about these problems.
The fact that many expensive CD players can no longer be repaired because spare parts are no longer available is another problem.
These workshops now keep long lists of which devices can no longer be repaired.

 

[JeremyFife]

The pedant in me has to point out that Topping don't make CD players.

I get the general point - buy quality rather than just measurements. Especially when there are mechanical components, as in CD players.

I haven't read anything to suggest that the Michi offers mechanical excellence, or that it would outlast much (much) cheaper well made units.

 

[sergeauckland]

The pedant in me has to point out that Topping don't make CD players.

I get the general point - buy quality rather than just measurements. Especially when there are mechanical components, as in CD players.

I haven't read anything to suggest that the Michi offers mechanical excellence, or that it would outlast much (much) cheaper well made units.

That's very much been my approach over the years, especially as the measurements are likely to be quite Good Enough in any item, from the cheapest upwards.
As someone that buys something, (HiFi, Cars, Washing Machines etc etc) then keeps them until they're beyond economic repair, buying 'quality' firstly gives greater pleasure when the items are new, and secondly avoids the cost and inconvenience of having to buy again when less well made items break.

My HiFi system(s), with the exception of the power amps, is(are) some 40 years old and even the power amps are now 15 years old.
It's interesting (to me anyway) that Quality doesn't have to be expensive. My Power amps are Behringer, amongst the cheapest in money terms, but as they have sat in a rack and worked day in day out for now 15 years, I consider them of High Quality.

Many years ago I read "Zen, And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", which had two stories running through it. One was a Travelogue of a man taking his young son on a motorcycle road trip across the US, the other story was of how (as an Academic) he went mad trying to define 'Quality' . A great read.

S.

 

[Mart68]

That's very much been my approach over the years, especially as the measurements are likely to be quite Good Enough in any item, from the cheapest upwards.
As someone that buys something, (HiFi, Cars, Washing Machines etc etc) then keeps them until they're beyond economic repair, buying 'quality' firstly gives greater pleasure when the items are new, and secondly avoids the cost and inconvenience of having to buy again when less well made items break.

My HiFi system(s), with the exception of the power amps, is(are) some 40 years old and even the power amps are now 15 years old.
It's interesting (to me anyway) that Quality doesn't have to be expensive. My Power amps are Behringer, amongst the cheapest in money terms, but as they have sat in a rack and worked day in day out for now 15 years, I consider them of High Quality.

Many years ago I read "Zen, And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", which had two stories running through it. One was a Travelogue of a man taking his young son on a motorcycle road trip across the US, the other story was of how (as an Academic) he went mad trying to define 'Quality' . A great read.

S.

Good book that, read it while at University, although my Philosophy prof thought otherwise.

IIRC he concludes that we cannot define 'Quality' but we still recognise it when we encounter it.

 

[Roland68]

That's very much been my approach over the years, especially as the measurements are likely to be quite Good Enough in any item, from the cheapest upwards.
As someone that buys something, (HiFi, Cars, Washing Machines etc etc) then keeps them until they're beyond economic repair, buying 'quality' firstly gives greater pleasure when the items are new, and secondly avoids the cost and inconvenience of having to buy again when less well made items break.

My HiFi system(s), with the exception of the power amps, is(are) some 40 years old and even the power amps are now 15 years old.
It's interesting (to me anyway) that Quality doesn't have to be expensive. My Power amps are Behringer, amongst the cheapest in money terms, but as they have sat in a rack and worked day in day out for now 15 years, I consider them of High Quality.

Many years ago I read "Zen, And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", which had two stories running through it. One was a Travelogue of a man taking his young son on a motorcycle road trip across the US, the other story was of how (as an Academic) he went mad trying to define 'Quality' . A great read.

S.

That's exactly how I see it and live by it.
My vacuum cleaner, washing machine and dryer are from Miele and are between 20 and 30 years old and are repaired or serviced when necessary (not a big effort compared to other brands and not expensive either).
But if you buy new appliances today, it's hard to find something of high quality.
- Many manufacturers no longer exist or only exist as a "name/brand" and no more.
- Other brands have sold or spun off appliance divisions. For example, the large kitchen appliances from Bosch and Siemens have belonged to another company for years and have nothing to do with the parent companies.
- Most of the rest are produced more cheaply, durability and repairability are often no longer guaranteed.

As we have seen in the audio sector in recent years, the same thing is happening here.
This means that it is hardly possible to buy new appliances that are really high quality and can also be repaired "normally". I'm not even talking about affordable.
And what manufacturers produced 15, 20 or 30 years ago usually has nothing to do with what you can buy today.
There are exceptions, but they are very rare, e.g. RME.

 

[Roland68]

Chi-Fi is used as a short form descriptor.
If someone said Chink-Fi, that might be upsetting and should probably be considered racist.
People need to grow up and learn how to evaluate things, and stop being so sensitive.

And if someone is an adult, then they also know how to follow the house rules as a guest, especially if they were set by the forum operator and owner.
It was very nice and polite of @JSmith to point this out to you.

 

[Snoopy]

Might be insane for most people to spend 7k on a cd player.. but there are more expensive CD players by marantz , luxman and others.

And plenty of people buy those like some people around here buy 500$ Dacs.

some people are fortunate enough to be able to purchase this stuff. If I had that kind of money for audio purchases I would probably be into expensive CD players as well

It’s most likely not the guy living from month to month that will spend 7k on a CD player anyway.

 

[Roland68]

My apologies. I didn't mean to offend anyone with a short form.
Can we all come up with a really long, confusing, and nonsensical description for Chinese audio products together?
❤

So you mean like for Canadian, American, German, Australian, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Dutch, French etc. HiFi products?

You can see where the error lies, right?

 

[chelgrian]

The pedant in me has to point out that Topping don't make CD players.

I get the general point - buy quality rather than just measurements. Especially when there are mechanical components, as in CD players.

I haven't read anything to suggest that the Michi offers mechanical excellence, or that it would outlast much (much) cheaper well made units.

Also ROTEL has been owned by Grand Green based in HK since at least 2005.

 

[sq225917]

Chi-fi originally meant blingy products of poor quality, back when they only made good stuff for foreign brands and own brand stuff. Loads of gold plating and crap engineering....

These days the range of quality and design language used in production of Chinese hifi brands is so broad that the term has just become a pejorative, best not to use it, just name the brand Instead.

 

[Sal1950]

Can-Am, The name of a huge corporation.
How not PC

 

[JSmith]

It must be racist and offensive somehow.

I never said you meant anything of the sort. I merely pointed out a forum rule and politely mentioned same to you as a gentle reminder. It's not a major challenge simply not to use the term as requested by Amir. My post was not an invitation to instigate a discussion about the term. Yet you doubled down and used it again in your further replies, now clogging up a thread with fairly off topic discussion.


JSmith

 

[Doodski]

Please don't use the term Can-Am. It must be racist and offensive somehow.

What exactly is your problem?