7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM Review

[MacClintock]

Does this have better imaging than crinale red?

As far as I know and experienced, none IEM really has.

 

[DSJR]

BUCKING FOLLOCKS!!!!!!!!

I thought I'd change the tips as my lugs are fairly small and going on the 'aids domes I went from the blue I'd first used, to the pink small ones and then back to the original red ones. I had no idea these darned things act as equalisers too.

The little pink ones made them sound just like the clear but toppy Betron BS10's I still use for general listening (they're around £13 or so on Amazon) and that wonderful bass extension I loved seemed to evaporate. Returning to the default red ones seems to have restored the balance and all but removed that slight 'glare' I was noticing and that I'd put down to my ears - the iffy intro to Annie Lennox 'Little Bird' is now fine...

I just want to put these things in and hear as near a neutral (as suggested by Harman) sound as possible (feck my ears) and seriously didn't want the option of an equaliser depending on the tips used..... (Also cross because there seems a blasted missed drop-out half way through the song 'Old Wild Men' on this CD so checking other discs and Spotify to see if it's there also - it is on Spotify but not as bad )

Currently playing '10CC UK Recordings,' these songs always sounding a little thin even on original vinyl and absolutely unbearable on the small pink tips. Now there's some flash on the bones sonically.

No doubt this is a work in progress but I really didn't want it to me

 

[Jimbob54]

BUCKING FOLLOCKS!!!!!!!!

I thought I'd change the tips as my lugs are fairly small and going on the 'aids domes I went from the blue I'd first used, to the pink small ones and then back to the original red ones. I had no idea these darned things act as equalisers too.

The little pink ones made them sound just like the clear but toppy Betron BS10's I still use for general listening (they're around £13 or so on Amazon) and that wonderful bass extension I loved seemed to evaporate. Returning to the default red ones seems to have restored the balance and all but removed that slight 'glare' I was noticing and that I'd put down to my ears - the iffy intro to Annie Lennox 'Little Bird' is now fine...

I just want to put these things in and hear as near a neutral (as suggested by Harman) sound as possible (feck my ears) and seriously didn't want the option of an equaliser depending on the tips used.....

Currently playing '10CC UK Recordings,' these songs always sounding a little thin even on original vinyl and absolutely unbearable on the small pink tips. Now there's some flash on the bones sonically.

No doubt this is a work in progress but I really didn't want it to me

Very much sounds like a seal issue- I doubt all 3 sizes can seal correctly in any one persons ear. Seal is EVERYTHING for IEM bass response. So its not the tips per se doing anything but the interface with your ear. Thats not to say well sealed tips of different material/bore etc cant impact the FR but a starting point always should be a good seal.

Try the alternating tone here- on a Harman-ish tuned IEM (ie decent bass response) the low tone should be of approx equal loudness to the higher tone. If not, incorrect seal- change tips or push them in harder.

Audio Seal Test

The Audio Seal test is designed to help you determine whether your earphones are correctly inserted. The test consists of audibly comparing two tones, one at 50 Hz and the other at 500 Hz, which should be heard at the same level. A weaker low frequency tone indicates a poor ear seal, resulting...

asiaudio.com

 

[L5730]

Pink Floyd's Pulse (ripped 24 bit 48kHz from DVD) puts a big smile on my face. I've always wondered about the vocals on Sorrow, but they seem to clearly be double tracked as there is two distinct styles of singing rather than a fast-processed mixed live signal. I guess it could always be another band member sounding very much like Mr Gilmour's more spoken voice? The synth/organ low notes utterly rumble.
Drums on Keep Talking have soo much energy. One Of These Days is good fun with the panning moves.

Santana's Moonflower (old Columbia CD) really adds some clarity. The vocalists mouth clicks and ticks are clearly audible between hums. A little unnerving as I've never noticed before.

I'm still wondering if there is something around the 3kHz region that is just a little too shouty for me. But either way these things have a lot of tight bottom end whilst also resolving a lot of audio information from recordings that I just haven't noticed before, warts and all. Well worth the price of entry.

 

[poxymoron]

I duuno,

Has anyone compared these directly to something like the $1000 Thieaudio Monarch MKIII?
Is it actually better after EQ?
I like these so much I'm thinking of spending $200+ on trying custom tips for them ... but if I'm spending $200 - maybe I'd want to invest in something higher priced if they do sound that much better for a longer term investment? Obviously if it's not much of a audible difference then I wouldn't though.

AutoEQ ranking currently has them as the top ranking:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md
Monarch MKIII: 91
7hz Zero: 84,
7hz Zero mk2: 73,
Truthear Crinacle Zero: 81.

Speaking of scores: I own the Zero 1 and 2 and Truthear Crinacle Zero also and by far prefer the 7hz's. This Zero 2 + EQ I think sounds the best.

So at least according to the ranking for compliance to Harman listener preference scores - I prefer the lowest ranking one after eq! Same with over ears: Prefer Jade II & Stax L300 over Sundara despite ranking lower)


I really love these IEMs though! They put me over the line where I think I'm going all in on IEM's and selling all my normal headphones including electrostatics! I don't listen to headphones much though - so over ears would probably be more comfortable for longer listening though possibly? I just mostly use them for mixing/tracking.

It's actually a tossup between these and my KH150's! (But yeah - speakers not being stuck in ears is aways nice though - why I couldn't go IEM only)

I dunno, any ranking that has the Dyson Zone in third would make me question it.

 

[MacClintock]

I duuno,

I dunno, any ranking that has the Dyson Zone in third would make me question it.

Exactly, even Sean Olive considers this score based ranking as not very accurate or relevant. Just look at the No. 1, the Mark Levinson No 5909, Amir measured it and listened to it. While it has quite high Harman compliance out of the box, the overall evaluation and listening experience were not so favorable. For headphones, what is much more relevant is how they sound AFTER EQ. So some headphones, like the 5909, might have quite high Harman compliance from factory, but limited or horrible spatial qualities (soundstage, imaging, etc.). And these will not improve, whatever EQ you might apply, while others have great spatial qualities and mediocre or even bad Harman compliance, but once EQed come to shine, as the spatial qualities remain (I am talking about you, HD800).

And for IEMs, a ranking that rates the Moondrop Chu higher than the Variation (even just for Harman compliance), lost all the credibility for me immediately.

For IEMs, @jaakkopasanen even uses not the 2019v2IE Harman target, but lowers the bass by 2 dB. I don't know why, but this 1) distortes obviously the compliance score and 2) has not objective justification. The region is also limited to 40HZ until 10kHz. So when an IEM has weak subbass or extremley unsmooth and spiky treble above 10kHz (which many, like for example the Chu, but not the Variations or the Truthear Nova, have), this is simply neglected. In my view, by doing this, and all of it is not even clearly stated, but must be extracted from the Python source code, he is doing a big disservice to the research.

 

[MacClintock]

Has anyone compared these directly to something like the $1000 Thieaudio Monarch MKIII?
Is it actually better after EQ?
I like these so much I'm thinking of spending $200+ on trying custom tips for them ... but if I'm spending $200 - maybe I'd want to invest in something higher priced if they do sound that much better for a longer term investment? Obviously if it's not much of a audible difference then I wouldn't though.

Please don't. There are a lot of good and cheap tips around. But even if you want to invest more, get some Azla Sednafit, Spintips or Moondrop Spring tips. Any of these should do.

AutoEQ ranking currently has them as the top ranking:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md
Monarch MKIII: 91
7hz Zero: 84,
7hz Zero mk2: 73,
Truthear Crinacle Zero: 81.

Speaking of scores: I own the Zero 1 and 2 and Truthear Crinacle Zero also and by far prefer the 7hz's. This Zero 2 + EQ I think sounds the best.

I don't know which measurement @jaakkopasanen uses for the MkIII (I haven't seen any of oratory or crinacle), but the ones I have seen look something like this:

So having extremely elevated treble above 12 kHz (I know 711 measurements are not very reliable there, but still) and a reduced ear gain region above 2kHz. While I personally even prefer this (anti-shout), it is not reproducing the Harman curve very well and thus remains misterious why it is receiving such a high score.

Furthermore, the MKIII and the Zero:Red with the 10 Ohm adapter are virtually identical until about 8 kHZ:

 

[markanini]

Here's what csglinux says about the Monark IIIs

What are the best in-ear monitors?

IEM database

www.hypethesonics.com

 

[MacClintock]

Have you or anyone tried Eartune Fidelity custom tips for any IEMS? I see they have versions for the original Zero V1. That's what I was looking at. I do have some random tips +DUNU S&S eartips which I like but none I've tried is perfect though. I might try some of those you suggested also.

To me: $200+whatever for the ear impression is still not that bad of a cost if sound or comfort is better. Even with $1000 IEMS: It's still a large cost reduction to someone who had Raal ribbon headphones and Electrostatics and expensive amps to drive them.

I do agree it comes down to how it sounds after EQ - which makes it sort of difficult to know what to purchase or what you'll actually like in the end. -

To quote Amir,
"As to whether to get the zero or zero:2, I would say that with the above EQ, Zero:2 sounds more to my liking than the original 7Hz Zero. That one though sounds more correct without EQ. Your opinion may vary."
That also is my finding too: but obviously makes things more difficult considering how do you know if there's some gem out there that measures just okay but sounds amazing with EQ.

Well I haven't tried these and for sure don't see any need or desire to do so. Tips are sbject to wear and tear and need to be replaced every now and then. Why waste so much money? All tips, especially foam ones, are flexible and will morph into the open space, you just need to find the right size, material, form etc. This is not all too complicated and even more expensive high quality tips don't cost more than $10-20.
I personally seem to have a small to medium sized ear canal. I have about 10-20 IEMs of all nozzle forms (small, wide, short, long, with some border, etc..) and did not come across any I wouldn't be able to find an appropriate and comfortable tip in the mentioned price bracket.

 

[MacClintock]

Here's what csglinux says about the Monark IIIs
View attachment 347322

What are the best in-ear monitors?

IEM database

www.hypethesonics.com

Why not show the plots demonstrating the non-flat impedance, harmonic distortion (about a factor of 100 higher than the 7Hz Salnotes Zero between 200Hz and 500Hz) and the channel imbalance ? Considering all this, the 7Hz Salnotes Zero (or the Zero 2 for that matter) do not only measure better and are much more favorable in almost every respect (for about 1/20 of the price), but the Monarch MkIII looks almost broken or at least of extremly questionable engineering.

Edit: I mean it is a non-brainer. If you really want to get a "luxurious" IEM, buy the Zero 2 ($25-30), some nice Azla tips ($10), a really beautiful, sturdy and non-microphonic aftermarket cable ($30-50) and you still would have spent less than $100.

 

[markanini]

Why not show the plots demonstrating the non-flat impedance, harmonic distortion (about a factor of 100 higher than the 7Hz Salnotes Zero between 200Hz and 500Hz) and the channel imbalance ? Considering all this, the 7Hz Salnotes Zero (or the Zero 2 for that matter) do not only measure better and are much more favorable in almost every respect (for about 1/20 of the price), but the Monarch MkIII looks almost broken or at least of extremly questionable engineering.

Edit: I mean it is a non-brainer. If you really want to get a "luxurious" IEM, buy the Zero 2 ($25-30), some nice Azla tips ($10), a really nice aftermarket cable ($30-50)and you still would have spent less than $100.
View attachment 347355
View attachment 347352

View attachment 347347

What makes you desire policing how people comment on third-party reviews? That's so weird. Does csglinux's hands-on experience threaten your ego or something?

I'd say the primary concern is fit, all other attributes will be moot if it doesn't fit securely and comfortably.
I'm afraid you don't come off as knowledgeable if you act like a non-linear impedance curve is an issue. That's normal for multi-driver IEMs, and is solved with a $5-10 dongle.

 

[MacClintock]

What makes you desire policing how people comment on third-party reviews? That's so weird.

If you just show some selected, non-representative results, that needs to be corrected, otherwise people get a false impression. I don't acutally know @csglinux but I like his site. Yet I cannot understand how he can after all these measurement results (channel imbalance, high distortion, non-flat impedance) recommend the Monrach MKIII, maybe it is kind of a paid review? I am positively sure that @amirm wouldn't recommend it.

Does csglinux's hands-on mixed experience threaten your ego or something?

No, yours?

 

[markanini]

If you just show some selected, non-representative results, that needs to be corrected, otherwise people get a false impression. I don't acutally know csglinux but I like his site. Yet I cannot understand how he can after all these measurement results (channel imbalance, high distortion, non-flat impedance) recommend the Monrach MKIII, maybe it is kind of a paid review? I am positively sure that @amirm wouldn't recommend it.

He went ahead and posted a mixed review, and raw graphs showing any and all issues in full. And your conclusion is that he's a shill, and I'm an apologist?!...Maybe you've had enough internet for today?

 

[MacClintock]

He went ahead and posted a mixed review, and raw graphs showing any and all issues in full. And your conclusion is that he's a shill...Maybe you've had enough internet for today?

I did not read his review (nor do I have the intention to do so after having seen the measurements and your link does not even point to his review), just the bit you have posted that closes with a RECOMMENDATION. So It does not seem to have been all that mixed after all. Maybe you already have reached the limits of your thinking for today?

 

[DSJR]

Very much sounds like a seal issue- I doubt all 3 sizes can seal correctly in any one persons ear. Seal is EVERYTHING for IEM bass response. So its not the tips per se doing anything but the interface with your ear. Thats not to say well sealed tips of different material/bore etc cant impact the FR but a starting point always should be a good seal.

Try the alternating tone here- on a Harman-ish tuned IEM (ie decent bass response) the low tone should be of approx equal loudness to the higher tone. If not, incorrect seal- change tips or push them in harder.

Audio Seal Test

The Audio Seal test is designed to help you determine whether your earphones are correctly inserted. The test consists of audibly comparing two tones, one at 50 Hz and the other at 500 Hz, which should be heard at the same level. A weaker low frequency tone indicates a poor ear seal, resulting...

asiaudio.com

To quote a much missed Vulcan - 'Fascinating!'

I still like the Betron BS10 with larger tips. They do the 50Hz tone clearly, but together with the 500Hz tone, it's well down. I fitted the red tips from the Zero 2's to see what would happen and all the top seemed to disappear, so I resorted to the larger stock tips (the BS10s are so easy to fit and remove and happy to use these for general non critical listening).

Just trying the yellow tips on the Zero 2 and no, I think the reds suit my lugs best.

Sincere apologies if most of you knew all this already. I never considered IEMs like this before as previous attempts with cheap crap phone style types they fell out..

 

[chorf]

Has anyone compared these directly to something like the $1000 Thieaudio Monarch MKIII?
Is it actually better after EQ?
I like these so much I'm thinking of spending $200+ on trying custom tips for them ... but if I'm spending $200 - maybe I'd want to invest in something higher priced if they do sound that much better for a longer term investment? Obviously if it's not much of a audible difference then I wouldn't though.

AutoEQ ranking currently has them as the top ranking:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md
Monarch MKIII: 91
7hz Zero: 84,
7hz Zero mk2: 73,
Truthear Crinacle Zero: 81.

Speaking of scores: I own the Zero 1 and 2 and Truthear Crinacle Zero also and by far prefer the 7hz's. This Zero 2 + EQ I think sounds the best.

So at least according to the ranking for compliance to Harman listener preference scores - I prefer the lowest ranking one after eq! Same with over ears: Prefer Jade II & Stax L300 over Sundara despite ranking lower)


I really love these IEMs though! They put me over the line where I think I'm going all in on IEM's and selling all my normal headphones including electrostatics! I don't listen to headphones much though: I mostly use them for mixing/tracking/noise reduction comparison type listening - so when I do listen I actually do need them as speakers don't really work so well for things like that. (If I was just listening for fun over-ears would probably more comfortable to me though)

Speaking of, these have better details than the Neumann KH150 + KH750's: probably as there's no room involved: but when the speakers get loud it's really no match due to the huge sound and feeling of the subs. Both are quite awesome though for different uses.

I'm in the same boat, tried a few tips and I'm already thinking about customs so I can just be done with it. My ear canals get very moist and all tips so far have a tendency to start slipping out. The best I've tried are the Spinfit W1s which are slightly sticky but I think my skin is slightly allergic to that kind of silicone. The Dunu S&S tips work well until the pain starts in my left ear. I love these zero 2s but I wish I could just put them on and not worry about them slipping for once.

I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on "real" customs though. Has anyone here tried making their own custom tips? You can get DYI kits for custom silicone earplugs from a brand called Radians for not too much money, and there are a bunch of people out there who have moulded them to their IEMs. I've seen a few how-to videos on youtube. Sounds like something worth trying before going all the way. Someone here must have tried something like this before!

 

[markanini]

I'm in the same boat, tried a few tips and I'm already thinking about customs so I can just be done with it. My ear canals get very moist and all tips so far have a tendency to start slipping out. The best I've tried are the Spinfit W1s which are slightly sticky but I think my skin is slightly allergic to that kind of silicone. The Dunu S&S tips work well until the pain starts in my left ear. I love these zero 2s but I wish I could just put them on and not worry about them slipping for once.

I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on "real" customs though. Has anyone here tried making their own custom tips? You can get DYI kits for custom silicone earplugs from a brand called Radians for not too much money, and there are a bunch of people out there who have moulded them to their IEMs. I've seen a few how-to videos on youtube. Sounds like something worth trying before going all the way. Someone here must have tried something like this before!

Maybe try a few more inexpensive universal IEMs, chances are you will find something that fits you better. 7Hz Zero has rather shallow nozzles and not everyone will find the fit great, no matter what tips.

 

[ngs428]

I just can't decide.. I have the Zero reds, but these get some great reviews too.. I may have missed them, any good comparisons?

 

[Cote Dazur]

I just can't decide.. I have the Zero reds, but these get some great reviews too.. I may have missed them, any good comparisons?

First, not sure why you have a hard time to decide, at this price, not assuming anything about your wealth, just go for it. Not much to loose.
Some people like the Zero Red (or Blue) better, some like the Zero2 better, since how they fit your ears canals is as important as the measured FR, whom ever give you their opinion, it is only as good as their ear shape.
For what it is worth (not much), I prefer the Zero Blue, but I also enjoy the Zero2, just not as much.

 

[ngs428]

I hear ya. Not about the $. Reviews are certainly subjective based on fit, etc. maybe I will just wait for the new budget king which will surely come out again in no time.