$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[Kal Rubinson]

My thoughts exactly, please do not take my comments as a dig on the KEFs, quite the opposite. Those Ref 1 metas were very, very good. Just lacked the dynamics and “liveliness” that I prefer. I am certain he Blade would be more to my taste, but i just can’t imagine I would prefer them to others I really liked on this trip. Hopefully I get a chance to hear them, but will not go out of my way to do so.

I have been considering a center channel pick to complement my Blade2 Metas because I cannot accommodate a 3rd Blade in the middle of my"view." My plan was a to get a single Ref 1 Meta because, as you say, it uses the same Uni-Q and to put it on a custom stand to have all 3 Uni-Qs at the same height. That was nixed by all the tech people I consulted at KEF although they would be happy to sell me one. The general tech consensus was that it simply could not keep up with the Blades in dynamics and that one of the large Refs was absolutely necessary despite the problem of getting all the Uni-Qs at the same height. They actually configured and tested such a setup for me.

Sure, I am a fan of the Blades (but also of the Revels) but I think it unfortunate to discount them on the basis of an audition of the Ref 1s.

In my experience you can reach that much closer (especially with your large budget) with a good multichannel setup.

Agreed as evidenced by the above efforts.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Planning another trip soon … would still like to hear JBL and Vivid

And another I am sure all of you are wondering about (maybe a bit the elephant in the room) … Genelec Ones … I really don’t want active (I have my reasons), and further, two of the dealers I visited were actually professional recording engineers! Both with extensive experience with all of the top tier monitors. One preferred JBL (he actually does movie soundtracks), nothing good to say about Genelec. The other Kii and ATC, again had no positive words for Genelec (quite the opposite), who is an acoustics engineer and has designed/built studios all over the world (I connected with some amazing folks on this trip ).

And I well know ATC is a bad word for many here on ASR, just sharing what I was told by a professional. These were of course their subjective opinions, and they were dealers for the brands, and I take it with a big grain of salt. But data points nonetheless. Still will try to listen to them, but won’t go out of my way to do so.

Add Neumann and Genelec to the list

 

[tuga]

Anything not on the lists that I should consider?

Give half of it away to charity?

 

[Frank2]

Anything not on the lists that I should consider?

MBL ...

Radialstrahler loudspeaker 116 F

www.mbl.de

 

[MattHooper]

MBL ...

Radialstrahler loudspeaker 116 F

www.mbl.de

Yes!

Though that's a personal bias of mine as I love MBL speakers (and have owned their smaller stand mounted version). The MBL 101 model is now well above $30,000 new. Though you can get a second-hand pair of MBL 101Es below $30,000. Though of course the question would be how would MKR demo a pair before purchasing? (Without unethically using an MBL dealer to audition then purchase elsewhere). So it's probably a non-starter even if MKR happened to be interested in the MBLs to begin with.

But nothing to me has sounded more life-like than well set up MBL speakers.

 

[mglobe]

MBL ...

Radialstrahler loudspeaker 116 F

www.mbl.de

I got to listen to the MBL Extremes a while back. I was very impressed, but it is impossible to separate the audio experience from the visual one. As a result I honestly have no idea if they are any good or not. They are a little bit above the $30k limit though.

 

[MattHooper]

I got to listen to the MBL Extremes a while back. I was very impressed, but it is impossible to separate the audio experience from the visual one. As a result I honestly have no idea if they are any good or not. They are a little bit above the $30k limit though.

I got a nice long sit down listen, all by my lonesome, to the Extremes in a large room in an audio store. They were wild to be sure, but at least in that set up not quite as dialed in and coherent as I've heard from the smaller 101E model.

 

[AudioJester]

Awesome experience and write up! I did something similar with my sons building up an old car and putting together diy speakers, thst is priceless.
You really should try and listen to the Genelec Ones if you have a chance, even just for the experience.
I find it similar around me with dealers - they dont make much money selling Genelec, usually dont carry them and try to talk them down as much as possible. Its only when I go to more pro shops I can experience them. Dare I say even the dealer on ASR will steer you clear of Genelec.....

 

[olegtern]

I wouldn't bet that Genelec even will get on the list, especially win.

 

[onion]

I wouldn't bet that Genelec even will get on the list, especially win.

When I ran my own subjective in-room audition with budget up to 15k a while back, the Genelec 8341s won out over the more expensive Kii three and Steinway-Lyngdorf system. If they are auditioned, I'm not sure I'd bet against them.

 

[olegtern]

When I ran my own subjective in-room audition with budget up to 15k a while back, the Genelec 8341s won out over the more expensive Kii three and Steinway-Lyngdorf system. If they are auditioned, I'm not sure I'd bet against them.

I've heard main competitors including those you named... And read the report about the audition... If there will be bids about Genelec's — call me

 

[MKR]

I heard them two or three times at audio shows, and although overall I liked their presentation — it was a very dynamic and involving sound, which I really appreciate in speakers. But I find that the top octave was too hot, at high volume it was sometimes close to unpleasant, it can cause fatigue. Just my 50 cents, I would pay attention to it.

I am glad that the speakers choice moved into an active phase, I can imagine how many emotions such a trip gave to you!

Definitely no harshness or fatigue on the top end during my audition. If anything they sounded a bit tipped down to me. Overall I was very impressed with those ribbons. But thanks regardless, I will watch out for this during future Legacy auditions.

And yes, very emotional, all in positive ways

 

[MKR]

Thanks for the write up. I'm sure it was a ton of fun finally being able to correlate measurements (where available) and other peoples' subjective impressions with your own.

I know it's a very difficult question to answer, but had well integrated subs been in place for your auditions, do you think your opinions would have changed in any meaningful way with any of the speakers?

In particular, I'm curious about your comments regarding the F328Bes and the Salon 2s. I've never heard them in the same room, which puts me at a distinct disadvantage compared to your experience, but I can't say I got the impression that they were all that different outside of low bass output when listening to them, albeit at different times and in different rooms. I'd agree that the Salons are much more a true full range speaker, but I wonder what you'd have thought had bass been essentially equalized between the two via subs.

My opinions would not have changed with subs. I really was comparing the speakers high/mid FR, any additional LF extension was just gravy. Mainly to say, if a speaker did not have as much LF extension as another, I didn’t count it against it as I can always add subs if the rest of the FR was superb.

Along those same lines, no, the issue with the 328Be was NOT its LF ext vs the Salon 2, but just about everything else! They weren’t even close, seriously, and I knew within seconds. I really don’t understand how anyone can come to the conclusion these speakers have similar performance. They actually sounded quite different to my ears, and my sons agreed. Don’t get me wrong, 328s are superb, just that the Salons kick it up another level entirely.

 

[MKR]

Speaking of JBL's, I'm curious how a lot of these speakers stacked up to your 590's.

Great question! For the money, the 590s punch well above their weight class, and I really like them. But, compared to some of the top contenders in my audition list, no contest. They will likely be relegated to side or rear channel duty in my multichannel system

 

[MKR]

I have been considering a center channel pick to complement my Blade2 Metas because I cannot accommodate a 3rd Blade in the middle of my"view." My plan was a to get a single Ref 1 Meta because, as you say, it uses the same Uni-Q and to put it on a custom stand to have all 3 Uni-Qs at the same height. That was nixed by all the tech people I consulted at KEF although they would be happy to sell me one. The general tech consensus was that it simply could not keep up with the Blades in dynamics and that one of the large Refs was absolutely necessary despite the problem of getting all the Uni-Qs at the same height. They actually configured and tested such a setup for me.

Sure, I am a fan of the Blades (but also of the Revels) but I think it unfortunate to discount them on the basis of an audition of the Ref 1s.

Agreed as evidenced by the above efforts.

Hey Kal, thanks much for chiming in here. My issue with the Ref 1 was not lack of dynamics, they were quite good for their size. It was rather the overall sonic “signature” if that makes sense. They were, to put it simply, a bit boring.

I have no doubt the Blade is another level above, and I will try to hear them for certain, just not going to travel across the country to do it

 

[luft262]

Howdy All,

Just found this site few weeks ago, been a lurker since then, trying to learn, my first post here.

Been in the audiophile "game" for decades, been through many systems, had some great ones to be sure, but always felt I was missing something. NEVER considered active speakers until I started researching all the excellent material and forum on this site. Seems to be a no-brainer based upon reviews, but not being able to play with amps is a strange thought to be sure ... But no matter to me ... If I can get "end game" sound with active speakers, then so be it, I am agnostic!

Based upon all the reading on this site, my short lists are below ...

Active short list:
Genelec 8351B + W371A
Genelec 8361A + W371A
D&D 8C (plus subs?)
Neumann KH420 (plus subs?)
Kii Three + BXT

Passive short list:
KEF Blade Two Meta
Magico A5
Revel Ultima Salon 2
Revel Performa F228Be
Perlisten S7t
Vivid Audio Kaya 45

Note for this kind of money, of course I plan to listen to as many of these systems as possible, but would like to shrink the list a bit if possible, and that's where I need y'all's kind assistance.

My room is roughly 20'x40', with 10' vaulted ceilings. Will be primarily for music, but definitely plan to pull double duty also for home theater. Music preferences are everything (literally) except country (yuck).

So ... Opinions on the above choices? Anything not on the lists that I should consider?

Thanks all, really appreciate your help on my quest.

MKR

I'd get the Revels, but at that price I'd want something that looks cool so I'd get Focal Sorpa 3's.

 

[MKR]

Add Neumann and Genelec to the list

Only if opportune. As with the Blades, not going to go out of my way to hear them. I have stated it many times already, but folks seem to not be listening … I really do not want active, for multiple reasons.

 

[MKR]

MBL ...

Radialstrahler loudspeaker 116 F

www.mbl.de

Nope, not a fan. Already heard MBLs multiple times, there is a reason they never made the short list

 

[MKR]

Yes!

Though that's a personal bias of mine as I love MBL speakers (and have owned their smaller stand mounted version). The MBL 101 model is now well above $30,000 new. Though you can get a second-hand pair of MBL 101Es below $30,000. Though of course the question would be how would MKR demo a pair before purchasing? (Without unethically using an MBL dealer to audition then purchase elsewhere). So it's probably a non-starter even if MKR happened to be interested in the MBLs to begin with.

But nothing to me has sounded more life-like than well set up MBL speakers.

Been there, done that, not a fan of MBL (or omni in general) sound

 

[MKR]

I'd get the Revels, but at that price I'd want something that looks cool so I'd get Focal Sorpa 3's.

The Salon 2s are beautiful speakers (actually my sons liked the looks of them more than any other speaker we auditioned) … but I do agree the Sopra 3s look nice, too bad their performance is well below the Salons (to my ears)