$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[MattHooper]

Been there, done that, not a fan of MBL (or omni in general) sound

That's good. Know thyself; first step to audio happiness.

Your comments on the Perlisten S7t's listening window would be one of my concerns with that speaker.

Also, I auditioned the Revel Performa speakers and found them to be clearly "competent" but nothing that grabbed me.

How much do aesthetics matter to you? Like, are you good with the relatively boxy, utilitarian look of the Magico A5 if it comes to that, or are you also hoping for some Pride Of Ownership level finish or pizazz? Along those lines, which of the speakers appealed to you visually?

Personally I really like nice-looking audio equipment, especially speakers since I'll be staring at them a lot, and I'm fortunate that a few of my favourite looking speakers are my favorite sounding.

 

[Lsc]

Well, here it is, finally, my impressions after the first audition trip …

It was quite the whirlwind, I am exhausted (two days, six dealers), but one of the funnest and most delightful experiences of my life. Of course it was all the more special as two of my adult sons accompanied me on the trip, mainly to keep their old fart dad from doing anything stupid and to keep my ears “honest”. I will say that maybe it is genetics, but for the most part they had the exact same impressions/opinions as I did on the auditions, so was good to have that extra confirmation on what I was hearing via their much younger ears.

If you want to know which dealers I visited and my impressions of them, please DM me, I do not want to make this about the dealers. I will say most of the dealers were outstanding and truly great human beings. There was one however that was the very definition of all that is wrong with high end audiophilia. If you can think of a negative stereotype in this hobby, I am certain this dealer had it covered.

I should also add that I auditioned several speakers not on my short list simply because I had the opportunity to do so, why not? Extra data points.

With the exception of one session that was vinyl, all sessions were with one of the high resolution streaming services/devices (Roon, Tidal, Qobuz, etc). Although some dealers had a lot of digital source silliness going on (several different megabuck DACs were in use, fully overkill and you can do just as well for a lot less money). I should also mentioned zero EQ on any of the speakers I auditioned (per my request to the dealers, I wanted to hear as “raw” a sound as possible with no “cheating”). Also no subwoofers were used for any audition, mains only.

Finally, please remember these are my SUBJECTIVE opinions, hearing speakers in all kinds of different environments and with all kinds of different gear. Please don’t poo poo on me about what I heard vs what you heard if you own or have heard these speakers yourself (and don’t get all butt hurt if I say something negative about your favorite speaker … you like what you like, I like what I like and heard what I heard, and we can all still be friends). It would be a fully pointless and waste of time discussion.

Without further ado, in alphabetical order …

Acora Acoustics SRC2
Never heard of this speaker manufacturer before visiting this particular dealer. Driven by $260k Boulder 3050 pure class A monos (truly a sight to behold), each amp had its own dedicated 220v circuit. Crazy. These speakers were magnificent, and with granite cabinets even! Where the low frequencies were coming from I have no idea given the (small) driver complement, but truly world class. Massive soundstage, dynamics, very neutral and accurate, but with no fatigue whatsoever. I am 100% certain the Boulder monos were fully unnecessary, a much more reasonable and well measuring amp would have certainly sufficed, but cool to see/hear those monos regardless. True excess at its finest. These speakers would go on the short list, but over my budget ($37k retail if I recall)

B&W 801 D4
Driven by Simaudio Moon mono blocks. Very recessed mid-range, sizzling top end, decent LF, nice imaging, incredible detail that is tolerable for about 10 min before I couldn’t take it any longer. Same experience I have had with every B&W I have heard over the years. I just don’t get it. Absolutely not flat response (I don’t even want to look at the spins for this thing, must be horrendous).

Devore Fidelity Orangutan O/96
Driven by small tube amps. Heard these only due to convenience, not because I sought them out. Overall a nice presentation, but definitely not flat FR. Lack of detail, but nice Mid-range and soundstage. LF response surprisingly good given the size of the speakers. I would never own these speakers, not my cup of tea, but I can see why some like them (they have a cult following to be sure)

Dynaudio Confidence 30
Ok, nothing seriously wrong, but meh, that’s about all I can say. Didn’t listen to these for more than a couple tracks.

Focal Sopra 3
Driven by Simaudio moon. These were actually quite good. Well balanced presentation, albeit a bit harsh on the top end. If not for other overall better speakers on my short list, these could be a contender. Beautiful to look at, outstanding build quality.

KEF Reference 1 Meta
Driven by a Master Sound integrated. Very good. This is a speaker you could sit and listen to for hours with zero fatigue. Well balanced, mostly flat response but tipped down a bit in the HF, excellent LF for the size of the speaker. But, smaller soundstage, image a little blurred, and a little too polite for me. If I were in market for stand mounts, they would be on the short list for sure. Note I was not able to audition any of the other big KEFs on my list, simply ran out of time (and sadly this dealer had just sold his Blade 1 demos). But given this same uniQ used in the other speakers, my suspicion is these would drop from the short list. While I will still try to hear the Blades, won’t go out of my way to do so before making final decision. I fully realize cabinet of blades takes things to another level, but per conversation I had with this particular dealer on the Blades and KEF in general, and my reaction to the Ref 1s, he was very confident I would in the end rank the Blades below few others on my short list.

Kii Three
This was without BXT, but no need, was in medium size room. Nice sound, very good bass from such small speakers. Good imaging and soundstage, but not world class or the best I have heard. If someone had a need for a small footprint all in one solution with great DSP/EQ capability, I could maybe see the attraction. Otherwise, meh. Was really happy I got to hear these as I have been very curious given the hype, nice to drop them from the short list. And by the way, that Kii control is goofy.

Legacy Focus SE
Driven by a Goldmund integrated. Another speaker I did not specifically try to audition, nor on my list. Given the very polarized opinion of Legacy, I had low expectations. Well, how do I say it, these things were outstanding! I was shocked. This was one of the surprises I mentioned previously. Very, very good speakers. Really did nothing wrong, except overpowering the room a bit in the low frequencies (incredible bass, true full range). Outstanding soundstage, incredible dynamics. Maybe not the last word in detail or pinpoint imaging, but still very good. Again, shocked. No idea how they measure, need to research, but they sounded excellent. I expect they are tipped down a bit HF, maybe a bump in the LF, but again still very good. I may be adding the Legacy Aeris to the short list.

Magico A5
Driven by a Boulder integrated. These were phenomenal. They deserve the accolades. Very good detail, imaging, soundstage. Balanced and neutral, some of the best mid bass I have ever heard. Low bass was incredible for a sealed design. World class.

Magico S5 MK II
Driven by Boulder 2ch amp and preamp. Larger soundstage/presence than the A5 (should be, they are a much larger speaker), and overall very good. But I preferred the A5! No matter, S5 over my budget anyway.

Rockport Cygnus
Driven by Boulder. Way over my budget, but no way I would pass up a chance to audition these. Unfortunately, dealer had just received them, really not even setup or dialed in. But still he was gracious enough to let me listen. Very good, but I was certainly not “wowed”. I expect much of this due to setup, but hard to say. Only spent about 10 min max with these.

Perlisten S7t
Driven by ATI 6000. These deserve the accolades. Very nice indeed. Pinpoint imaging, LF on point, smooth and detailed mids. Zero harshness, but great detail in the highs. Two nit picks … Smaller soundstage and narrow sweat spot, and due to the height of the tweeter (too low!), all the musicians appeared to be the height of hobbits. But overall, very, very good.

Revel 228Be
Driven by Simaudio Moon. Excellent, nothing really to complain about at all. Very flat response, neutral, smooth, excellent detail and soundstage, very good LF. Outstanding.

Revel 328Be
Driven by ATI 6000. Similar to the 228, just everything bigger. A bit better imaging. Low freq was incredible, true full range. Excellent.

Revel Salon 2
Driven by ATI 6000. I had VERY high expectations of this speaker given all of my research and the hype. Well, my expectations were completely surpassed. Unbelievable. I am a bit lost for words. Have never heard anything like that in all my years in this crazy hobby. The most realistic rendition of female voice, strings, snare drum, brass, and piano I have ever heard. One track I played of Billie Eilish actually had a few folks in the room in tears, including me, no kidding. She was right there in the room with us. It was goosebump central. Soundstage was immense, crystal clear highs. Extremely fast/tight mid bass. And the lowest freq? These things were hitting 25Hz easy. Wow, just wow. No EQ, no subwoofer, nothing. Just the Salon 2s. Miraculous. And for those that say the 328 equals or betters the Salon 2, I heard them right next to each other with exact same electronics. Sorry for the 328 owners/lovers here, but for my ears, it was not.even.close. Salon 2 in a different league.

Sonus faber Il Cremonese
Driven by McIntosh monos. Horrendous. $65k of a mushy soupy mess. But, they were gorgeous to look at! But that’s all I would do if I owned them, just look at them. Nice furniture is about all I can say.

Wilson Sasha DAW
Can’t recall the amplification on this one. Low expectations compared to my previous Wilson experience (yuck). But to be fair, these actually sounded very nice. Beautiful cabinet. Nothing really to complain about expect the ridiculous asking price. You can do same or better for much less money.

Zellaton Plural Evo
Driven by Goldmund monos. Never heard of this brand before until seeing them at this dealer. Apparently a German brand that has been around since the 30s. All of their drivers made by hand in house. Gorgeous speakers. Immense soundstage, pinpoint imaging, smooth liquid midrange. Excellent low freq, true full range. But expensive, this model $65k/pair. Not sure what the measurements would be, but I suspect very good.

There ya have it, hope this is helpful/entertaining for y’all.

Thanks for sharing! Interestingly I have a pair of salon2 with ATI6000 amp and I was thinking of taking a serious look at the 802D4.

I only got a chance to listen for about 5 min before I had to leave but I thought the 802d4 was also incredibly detailed. Looks like I need to listen a bit longer.

 

[olegtern]

Definitely no harshness or fatigue on the top end during my audition. If anything they sounded a bit tipped down to me. Overall I was very impressed with those ribbons.

They know how to cook ribbons! Their ribbons do not sound thin, as often happens. But it is very transparent and dynamic. I can only compare with Adam Tensor Betta, active speakers with AMT MF/HF. And no harshness, just a lot of treble (if I remember correctly, they have up to 10 dB on top on the measurements). But I don’t know, maybe there are treble adjustments and I got such a bright setting? Anyway, I can understand why they hooked attention!

 

[Absolute]

I don't know about others, but for me the concept of slow listening is important to find out the long-term impression of the things that initially stands out.
I can't count how many times I've initially thought that certain changes, like EQ settings for tonality, have been strictly for the better only to realize after a few hours that something is off. In audio it seems like traits that I find ear-catching at first always seem to end up irritating after a while.

I suspect the Magico A5's extreme early beaming with resulting lack of energy above 5-6 kHz will result in a feeling of lack of air and openness over time, and the opposite for the typical B&W 800 series with a rising response up top combined with directivity mismatch.

In my experience it's always a good thing to go back to a few of the ones you liked and listen to it again in a slow manner without the mental stress of comparing to something else.

 

[MKR]

That's good. Know thyself; first step to audio happiness.

Your comments on the Perlisten S7t's listening window would be one of my concerns with that speaker.

Also, I auditioned the Revel Performa speakers and found them to be clearly "competent" but nothing that grabbed me.

How much do aesthetics matter to you? Like, are you good with the relatively boxy, utilitarian look of the Magico A5 if it comes to that, or are you also hoping for some Pride Of Ownership level finish or pizazz? Along those lines, which of the speakers appealed to you visually?

Personally I really like nice-looking audio equipment, especially speakers since I'll be staring at them a lot, and I'm fortunate that a few of my favourite looking speakers are my favorite sounding.

I should be more specific … the MBLs actually sound good, clearly there is solid engineering behind the speaker, but they never sounded “real” to me. Was more like a strange parlor trick rather than an accurate representation of the source. Plus in my auditions there was a lack of dynamics and the highs lacked detail and were a bit “smeared”. Also, not the best choice for theater application. Just not my cup of tea. But, nice speakers for sure, and definitely unique!

Note the Perlisten is fully dropped from the short list. They do a lot of things right, but definitely some issues with these.

And sound first, looks second for me. Otherwise I would just by the Sonus Faber! Gorgeous speakers, terrible sound. They are literally a broken design. I would fully agree the A5s are about as boring looking as they come, but they sure sounded good!

 

[MKR]

Thanks for sharing! Interestingly I have a pair of salon2 with ATI6000 amp and I was thinking of taking a serious look at the 802D4.

I only got a chance to listen for about 5 min before I had to leave but I thought the 802d4 was also incredibly detailed. Looks like I need to listen a bit longer.

I am not sure about that ATI, I think it was running out of steam a bit in my audition. If I go with the Salon 2s, I will not be running them with ATI. They need more juice to do them justice. They are quite low efficiency. This became very obvious when we were level matching between them and the 328s (a much more efficient speaker). Massive difference. I am quite confident this is why some have a less than stellar experience with the Salon 2 .. they aren’t driving them with enough power. The dealer even agreed with me that the ATIs weren’t quite up to the task and he was going to switch over to Levinson monos at some point.

Yes, spend a lot more time with the B&W, I think you will change your opinion. These are very tipped up speakers, but that detail and “sparkle” sells speakers in the showroom, no doubt! And make sure there is no EQ! Dealers will do this sometimes to correct well known warts, then you get them home and you wonder why it sounds like a completely different speaker!

 

[MKR]

I don't know about others, but for me the concept of slow listening is important to find out the long-term impression of the things that initially stands out.
I can't count how many times I've initially thought that certain changes, like EQ settings for tonality, have been strictly for the better only to realize after a few hours that something is off. In audio it seems like traits that I find ear-catching at first always seem to end up irritating after a while.

I suspect the Magico A5's extreme early beaming with resulting lack of energy above 5-6 kHz will result in a feeling of lack of air and openness over time, and the opposite for the typical B&W 800 series with a rising response up top combined with directivity mismatch.

In my experience it's always a good thing to go back to a few of the ones you liked and listen to it again in a slow manner without the mental stress of comparing to something else.

Well said and agreed! I will be hearing the A5s again this weekend at another dealer, alongside the Vivid Kaya 90s in fact

 

[Absolute]

Well said and agreed! I will be hearing the A5s again this weekend at another dealer, alongside the Vivid Kaya 90s in fact

I hope you hurry because we're all heavily invested here

 

[MKR]

I hope you hurry because we're all heavily invested here

LOL … In all seriousness, this has been so much fun with y’all and I have genuinely appreciated the thoughts and opinions of everyone, has truly been very helpful in keeping me honest, protecting me from myself so to speak. Been a great ride on this goofy roller coaster.

We are getting close, hang in there!

 

[mglobe]

I should be more specific … the MBLs actually sound good, clearly there is solid engineering behind the speaker, but they never sounded “real” to me. Was more like a strange parlor trick rather than an accurate representation of the source. Plus in my auditions there was a lack of dynamics and the highs lacked detail and were a bit “smeared”. Also, not the best choice for theater application. Just not my cup of tea. But, nice speakers for sure, and definitely unique!

Note the Perlisten is fully dropped from the short list. They do a lot of things right, but definitely some issues with these.

And sound first, looks second for me. Otherwise I would just by the Sonus Faber! Gorgeous speakers, terrible sound. They are literally a broken design. I would fully agree the A5s are about as boring looking as they come, but they sure sounded

The concept of parlor trick went through my head when I saw the MBLs for the first time, and it's possible that this could be a case where the appearance could be causing some of us to react negatively to the sound of the speakers. They are so substantial, different, imposing,... that they are likely to sway our impression of them one way or the other. I immediately wanted to like them, and did. But later on I started wondering if I really knew what I heard. I guess I could walk into my local MBL dealer with a MacBook and Umik and plug in and measure the sound from the LP. I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

 

[Lsc]

I am not sure about that ATI, I think it was running out of steam a bit in my audition. If I go with the Salon 2s, I will not be running them with ATI. They need more juice to do them justice. They are quite low efficiency. This became very obvious when we were level matching between them and the 328s (a much more efficient speaker). Massive difference. I am quite confident this is why some have a less than stellar experience with the Salon 2 .. they aren’t driving them with enough power. The dealer even agreed with me that the ATIs weren’t quite up to the task and he was going to switch over to Levinson monos at some point.

Yes, spend a lot more time with the B&W, I think you will change your opinion. These are very tipped up speakers, but that detail and “sparkle” sells speakers in the showroom, no doubt! And make sure there is no EQ! Dealers will do this sometimes to correct well known warts, then you get them home and you wonder why it sounds like a completely different speaker!

I also feel the ATI6000 shows its limitations when driving the salon2. I also have an ATI4000 (powers the surrounds) that does even worse and actually can’t drive it properly when pushed.

But after dealing with some room issues, the ATI6000 is good enough for me in my 21 x 19 room with a 12 foot tray ceiling. Definitely understand what you mean though about getting a big enough amp to drive these inefficient speakers.

I’m also using no sub for 2 channel right now either. When I replace my PB16 with subs that are better for music, the load on the amp should be less.

 

[MattHooper]

LOL … In all seriousness, this has been so much fun with y’all and I have genuinely appreciated the thoughts and opinions of everyone, has truly been very helpful in keeping me honest, protecting me from myself so to speak. Been a great ride on this goofy roller coaster.

It is fun!

There is clearly a lot of interest and enthusiasm in your reports of listening to all those speakers (and those to come). Something like 26 likes already for your mini-speaker impressions.

This site tends to attract engineer-minded folks who want to see things in graphs and measurements, and it can engender something of a "Measurements/Blind Tests or It Didn't Happen" mindset. And so there is a tendency for a lack of interest in, or reticence about, audiophiles just describing what they heard. So I personally can find things a little on the "dry" side here in regard to discussing audio gear (I appreciate the measurements...but also like to discuss how things actually sound).

Posts like yours describing your impressions of different speakers are fun, nobody need take them as gospel, and I think the enthusiasm with which your thread has been greeted speaks to a desire that even many people visiting this site appreciate. And your impressions seem to track well, in many cases, what others have heard and reported.

Cheers.

 

[MattHooper]

I should be more specific … the MBLs actually sound good, clearly there is solid engineering behind the speaker, but they never sounded “real” to me. Was more like a strange parlor trick rather than an accurate representation of the source. Plus in my auditions there was a lack of dynamics and the highs lacked detail and were a bit “smeared”. Also, not the best choice for theater application. Just not my cup of tea. But, nice speakers for sure, and definitely unique!

The concept of parlor trick went through my head when I saw the MBLs for the first time, and it's possible that this could be a case where the appearance could be causing some of us to react negatively to the sound of the speakers. They are so substantial, different, imposing,... that they are likely to sway our impression of them one way or the other. I immediately wanted to like them, and did. But later on I started wondering if I really knew what I heard.

Reactions to the MBLs are always interesting. (BTW, my MBLs, and those I've heard in good set ups, had among the most amazing sense of detail that I've heard).

As to the "parlor trick" aspect, I wonder how much this has to do with the perspective one brings to encountering the MBLs (or similar omnis).

I'm continually comparing live music to reproduced, and felt the MBLs did some things more realistically than any speaker I've heard. They are also the only speaker where I managed to fool some guests that someone was actually in the room playing a live instrument (when the guests were outside the room). No other speaker I've owned did that as well.

The most reliable reaction I had to playing the MBLs for guests was "wow, it sounds so real!"

And the ONLY person who somewhat demurred, finding them to be a bit closer to a "parlor trick" was an audiophile friend/reviewer.

Which brings in an interesting question as to what assumptions one may be bringing to the issue. Could it be perhaps that the "regular folk" were recognizing something fundamentally "more real" about the omni sound? And that the audiophile was used to "listening to speakers" and had built up expectations as to "how music should correctly sound" through speakers, mostly by building that impression through hearing traditional speaker designs? So if you are mostly used to box or more direct-radiating presentations, you come with a feeling that sounds "right?"

I sometimes had that feeling with the MBLs, like for some rock music tracks I grew up with they sounded more "right" through my regular dynamic/box speakers.

Anyway...back to MKR's quest...

 

[olegtern]

Could it be perhaps that the "regular folk" were recognizing something fundamentally "more real" about the omni sound? And that the audiophile was used to "listening to speakers" and had built up expectations as to "how music should correctly sound" through speakers, mostly by building that impression through hearing traditional speaker designs? So if you are mostly used to box or more direct-radiating presentations, you come with a feeling that sounds "right?"

It's hard to argue about virtual people and virtual situations... For E.g. "regular folks" are not trained to separate some aspects of recorded events, they don't care about details. Thus direct + room sound can make the illusion of a more "real event", "wow, the singer is here". However, the gourmet may wish not to lose any recorded details, or "I am there" feeling without sacrificing the feeling of the real event. As we all know, it's harder to achieve that kind of things.

MBLs are great. I don't think only because of omni physics. They are not "boxy sound", for example. But they need a big and great treated room to deliver all aspects of any record. Otherwise, they will be impressive, but not universal. This is my opinion based on many hours of listening to their different models at the Warsaw and Munich Audio Shows, I literally sat in the room with them for hours, listening to everything from the symphonies to The Prodigy (no jokes).

I understand that you owned them and opinions may differ (although I have experience with other omni speakers at home), but I still do not consider the generalization that omni speakers are some kind of direct path to naturalness, only if they are great (top-line of MBLs are!) and the room allows. Or if the musical material is limited and fits well with their features.

 

[Mr. Widget]

It's hard to argue about...

But we can try.

 

[HeadDoc12]

I am also thoroughly enjoying this thread. As someone who - for a variety of reasons - will probably never own $30K speakers, and who has far less interest in audio gear costing significantly more than THAT, this has been a fun ride from the start. The speakers being considered are close enough to state of the art that they are of great interest to me, BUT since Amir and Erin will be unlikely to ever test any of them (except of course the Revels), and anyone else reviewing speakers in this price range is... er, essentially required to give a glowing review ("I was truly sad when it came time to pack them up to return to the manufacturer..."), MKR's honesty, thoroughness, and open curiosity are a breath of fresh air. Also, I am not complaining about the very positive tone of this thread (sorry if this jinxes it), compared to the way some threads here become so hostile (about SPEAKERS!). I am VERY curious to hear about the Kayas, but I will go out on a limb and predict that the winning pair that finds its way into your home, system, and heart will be the Salon 2s. Keep it coming!

 

[bo_knows]

Well, here it is, finally, my impressions after the first audition trip …

It was quite the whirlwind, I am exhausted (two days, six dealers), but one of the funnest and most delightful experiences of my life. Of course it was all the more special as two of my adult sons accompanied me on the trip, mainly to keep their old fart dad from doing anything stupid and to keep my ears “honest”. I will say that maybe it is genetics, but for the most part they had the exact same impressions/opinions as I did on the auditions, so was good to have that extra confirmation on what I was hearing via their much younger ears.

If you want to know which dealers I visited and my impressions of them, please DM me, I do not want to make this about the dealers. I will say most of the dealers were outstanding and truly great human beings. There was one however that was the very definition of all that is wrong with high end audiophilia. If you can think of a negative stereotype in this hobby, I am certain this dealer had it covered.

I should also add that I auditioned several speakers not on my short list simply because I had the opportunity to do so, why not? Extra data points.

With the exception of one session that was vinyl, all sessions were with one of the high resolution streaming services/devices (Roon, Tidal, Qobuz, etc). Although some dealers had a lot of digital source silliness going on (several different megabuck DACs were in use, fully overkill and you can do just as well for a lot less money). I should also mentioned zero EQ on any of the speakers I auditioned (per my request to the dealers, I wanted to hear as “raw” a sound as possible with no “cheating”). Also no subwoofers were used for any audition, mains only.

Finally, please remember these are my SUBJECTIVE opinions, hearing speakers in all kinds of different environments and with all kinds of different gear. Please don’t poo poo on me about what I heard vs what you heard if you own or have heard these speakers yourself (and don’t get all butt hurt if I say something negative about your favorite speaker … you like what you like, I like what I like and heard what I heard, and we can all still be friends). It would be a fully pointless and waste of time discussion.

Without further ado, in alphabetical order …

Acora Acoustics SRC2
Never heard of this speaker manufacturer before visiting this particular dealer. Driven by $260k Boulder 3050 pure class A monos (truly a sight to behold), each amp had its own dedicated 220v circuit. Crazy. These speakers were magnificent, and with granite cabinets even! Where the low frequencies were coming from I have no idea given the (small) driver complement, but truly world class. Massive soundstage, dynamics, very neutral and accurate, but with no fatigue whatsoever. I am 100% certain the Boulder monos were fully unnecessary, a much more reasonable and well measuring amp would have certainly sufficed, but cool to see/hear those monos regardless. True excess at its finest. These speakers would go on the short list, but over my budget ($37k retail if I recall)

B&W 801 D4
Driven by Simaudio Moon mono blocks. Very recessed mid-range, sizzling top end, decent LF, nice imaging, incredible detail that is tolerable for about 10 min before I couldn’t take it any longer. Same experience I have had with every B&W I have heard over the years. I just don’t get it. Absolutely not flat response (I don’t even want to look at the spins for this thing, must be horrendous).

Devore Fidelity Orangutan O/96
Driven by small tube amps. Heard these only due to convenience, not because I sought them out. Overall a nice presentation, but definitely not flat FR. Lack of detail, but nice Mid-range and soundstage. LF response surprisingly good given the size of the speakers. I would never own these speakers, not my cup of tea, but I can see why some like them (they have a cult following to be sure)

Dynaudio Confidence 30
Ok, nothing seriously wrong, but meh, that’s about all I can say. Didn’t listen to these for more than a couple tracks.

Focal Sopra 3
Driven by Simaudio moon. These were actually quite good. Well balanced presentation, albeit a bit harsh on the top end. If not for other overall better speakers on my short list, these could be a contender. Beautiful to look at, outstanding build quality.

KEF Reference 1 Meta
Driven by a Master Sound integrated. Very good. This is a speaker you could sit and listen to for hours with zero fatigue. Well balanced, mostly flat response but tipped down a bit in the HF, excellent LF for the size of the speaker. But, smaller soundstage, image a little blurred, and a little too polite for me. If I were in market for stand mounts, they would be on the short list for sure. Note I was not able to audition any of the other big KEFs on my list, simply ran out of time (and sadly this dealer had just sold his Blade 1 demos). But given this same uniQ used in the other speakers, my suspicion is these would drop from the short list. While I will still try to hear the Blades, won’t go out of my way to do so before making final decision. I fully realize cabinet of blades takes things to another level, but per conversation I had with this particular dealer on the Blades and KEF in general, and my reaction to the Ref 1s, he was very confident I would in the end rank the Blades below few others on my short list.

Kii Three
This was without BXT, but no need, was in medium size room. Nice sound, very good bass from such small speakers. Good imaging and soundstage, but not world class or the best I have heard. If someone had a need for a small footprint all in one solution with great DSP/EQ capability, I could maybe see the attraction. Otherwise, meh. Was really happy I got to hear these as I have been very curious given the hype, nice to drop them from the short list. And by the way, that Kii control is goofy.

Legacy Focus SE
Driven by a Goldmund integrated. Another speaker I did not specifically try to audition, nor on my list. Given the very polarized opinion of Legacy, I had low expectations. Well, how do I say it, these things were outstanding! I was shocked. This was one of the surprises I mentioned previously. Very, very good speakers. Really did nothing wrong, except overpowering the room a bit in the low frequencies (incredible bass, true full range). Outstanding soundstage, incredible dynamics. Maybe not the last word in detail or pinpoint imaging, but still very good. Again, shocked. No idea how they measure, need to research, but they sounded excellent. I expect they are tipped down a bit HF, maybe a bump in the LF, but again still very good. I may be adding the Legacy Aeris to the short list.

Magico A5
Driven by a Boulder integrated. These were phenomenal. They deserve the accolades. Very good detail, imaging, soundstage. Balanced and neutral, some of the best mid bass I have ever heard. Low bass was incredible for a sealed design. World class.

Magico S5 MK II
Driven by Boulder 2ch amp and preamp. Larger soundstage/presence than the A5 (should be, they are a much larger speaker), and overall very good. But I preferred the A5! No matter, S5 over my budget anyway.

Rockport Cygnus
Driven by Boulder. Way over my budget, but no way I would pass up a chance to audition these. Unfortunately, dealer had just received them, really not even setup or dialed in. But still he was gracious enough to let me listen. Very good, but I was certainly not “wowed”. I expect much of this due to setup, but hard to say. Only spent about 10 min max with these.

Perlisten S7t
Driven by ATI 6000. These deserve the accolades. Very nice indeed. Pinpoint imaging, LF on point, smooth and detailed mids. Zero harshness, but great detail in the highs. Two nit picks … Smaller soundstage and narrow sweat spot, and due to the height of the tweeter (too low!), all the musicians appeared to be the height of hobbits. But overall, very, very good.

Revel 228Be
Driven by Simaudio Moon. Excellent, nothing really to complain about at all. Very flat response, neutral, smooth, excellent detail and soundstage, very good LF. Outstanding.

Revel 328Be
Driven by ATI 6000. Similar to the 228, just everything bigger. A bit better imaging. Low freq was incredible, true full range. Excellent.

Revel Salon 2
Driven by ATI 6000. I had VERY high expectations of this speaker given all of my research and the hype. Well, my expectations were completely surpassed. Unbelievable. I am a bit lost for words. Have never heard anything like that in all my years in this crazy hobby. The most realistic rendition of female voice, strings, snare drum, brass, and piano I have ever heard. One track I played of Billie Eilish actually had a few folks in the room in tears, including me, no kidding. She was right there in the room with us. It was goosebump central. Soundstage was immense, crystal clear highs. Extremely fast/tight mid bass. And the lowest freq? These things were hitting 25Hz easy. Wow, just wow. No EQ, no subwoofer, nothing. Just the Salon 2s. Miraculous. And for those that say the 328 equals or betters the Salon 2, I heard them right next to each other with exact same electronics. Sorry for the 328 owners/lovers here, but for my ears, it was not.even.close. Salon 2 in a different league.

Sonus faber Il Cremonese
Driven by McIntosh monos. Horrendous. $65k of a mushy soupy mess. But, they were gorgeous to look at! But that’s all I would do if I owned them, just look at them. Nice furniture is about all I can say.

Wilson Sasha DAW
Can’t recall the amplification on this one. Low expectations compared to my previous Wilson experience (yuck). But to be fair, these actually sounded very nice. Beautiful cabinet. Nothing really to complain about expect the ridiculous asking price. You can do same or better for much less money.

Zellaton Plural Evo
Driven by Goldmund monos. Never heard of this brand before until seeing them at this dealer. Apparently a German brand that has been around since the 30s. All of their drivers made by hand in house. Gorgeous speakers. Immense soundstage, pinpoint imaging, smooth liquid midrange. Excellent low freq, true full range. But expensive, this model $65k/pair. Not sure what the measurements would be, but I suspect very good.

There ya have it, hope this is helpful/entertaining for y’all.

KEF speakers may be "boring" but "image a little blurred" should never occur. This sounds like a setup issue to me.
If anything, imaging is one of if not the strongest points of KEF reference and Blade speakers.

 

[MKR]

I am also thoroughly enjoying this thread. As someone who - for a variety of reasons - will probably never own $30K speakers, and who has far less interest in audio gear costing significantly more than THAT, this has been a fun ride from the start. The speakers being considered are close enough to state of the art that they are of great interest to me, BUT since Amir and Erin will be unlikely to ever test any of them (except of course the Revels), and anyone else reviewing speakers in this price range is... er, essentially required to give a glowing review ("I was truly sad when it came time to pack them up to return to the manufacturer..."), MKR's honesty, thoroughness, and open curiosity are a breath of fresh air. Also, I am not complaining about the very positive tone of this thread (sorry if this jinxes it), compared to the way some threads here become so hostile (about SPEAKERS!). I am VERY curious to hear about the Kayas, but I will go out on a limb and predict that the winning pair that finds its way into your home, system, and heart will be the Salon 2s. Keep it coming!

Very kind words sir, thank you, and very happy you are enjoying this adventure with me

The Salon 2s are certainly in the #1 position right now as a speaker that did more things right than any of the others (not perfect, but darn close!). I am quite confident that I could just stop the train now and go with the Salon 2s, and I would be very content. But, when spending this kind of money, due diligence is a must and I want to leave no stone unturned. While it is unrealistic to say this may be my last speaker purchase ever, it might be, so gonna do this right!

I will be hearing the Kayas this Saturday (amongst several others), will report out by end of weekend!

 

[MKR]

KEF speakers may be "boring" but "image a little blurred" should never occur. This sounds like a setup issue to me.
If anything, imaging is one of if not the strongest points of KEF reference and Blade speakers.

I don’t think so. But, don’t misunderstand, imagining was still very good, just not on par with some of the other speakers I auditioned. Keep in mind there were some very high performing speakers in this first list, and many of my comments were getting to the nit pick level. As I stated, those KEFs I could have just sat and listened to for hours. Very pleasant sound, but lacking in detail and would not be my final choice compared to other top contenders, for MY ears (my sons had same opinion by the way, so six total ears ). But clearly outstanding engineering, an excellent design. Finally, Blade or the big Ref meta floorstanders may be at a different level, but I don’t think so. Same uniQ, sound should not be that much different. Though given the Blade front cabinet design and differences in diffraction (similar to Salon 2 front baffle), I may be fully wrong. Will still try to hear the Blades to confirm.

 

[benanders]

Reactions to the MBLs are always interesting. (BTW, my MBLs, and those I've heard in good set ups, had among the most amazing sense of detail that I've heard).

As to the "parlor trick" aspect, I wonder how much this has to do with the perspective one brings to encountering the MBLs (or similar omnis).

I'm continually comparing live music to reproduced, and felt the MBLs did some things more realistically than any speaker I've heard. They are also the only speaker where I managed to fool some guests that someone was actually in the room playing a live instrument (when the guests were outside the room). No other speaker I've owned did that as well.

The most reliable reaction I had to playing the MBLs for guests was "wow, it sounds so real!"

And the ONLY person who somewhat demurred, finding them to be a bit closer to a "parlor trick" was an audiophile friend/reviewer.

Which brings in an interesting question as to what assumptions one may be bringing to the issue. Could it be perhaps that the "regular folk" were recognizing something fundamentally "more real" about the omni sound? And that the audiophile was used to "listening to speakers" and had built up expectations as to "how music should correctly sound" through speakers, mostly by building that impression through hearing traditional speaker designs? So if you are mostly used to box or more direct-radiating presentations, you come with a feeling that sounds "right?"

I sometimes had that feeling with the MBLs, like for some rock music tracks I grew up with they sounded more "right" through my regular dynamic/box speakers.

Anyway...back to MKR's quest...

In all fairness, no studio-recorded music can do more than emulate live music regardless of the speakers. Get an original production master on celluloid and play it with a giant Stüder deck and that won’t change (though it’ll improve a LOT). It’s all parlor tricks to some extent - mixing and mastering do just that.
It’s easy to “fool” innocent onlookers onlisteners with good speakers. If audiophile or engineer friends, maybe less likely: they tend to come in with assumptions or even bias, as you seem to suggest @MattHooper . I surely can’t disagree.

Sure, some speakers can do wonders making a solo unplugged artist sound present, I won’t argue that. But full orchestras? No home room treatment will truly get you to Sydney’s Rocks. And speaking of rocks, live rock music? C’mon - we’d all default to using beefy PA speakers, were true live sound of that genre the goal..

I liked an article Steve Guttenberg wrote some years back about live vs. recorded music. He said he preferred recorded music to live music. The whole article was about that. I agreed with it about as much as I agree with much of the prose from audiophilia: not at all! But it did lay bare many of the conflicted perceptions and expectations of in-home music-listening.

Recorded and live music are even more different than you think

Back in the days before Edison invented recorded sound, all music was live. But now most people hear recorded music most of the time.

www.cnet.com

Btw: I’ll sound like a devil’s advocate, but you can’t just happen to like the sound from speakers that look good to you. No way to tease those two factors apart unless you introduce yourself to every speaker’s sound sight-unseen. And vice versa. Not possible.
MBL is a great example. They go out on a limb “coolness”-wise in appearance (though I’m not sure why they need to slap those big round automotive-style logo medallions on such unique hardware…), and I would be surprised to learn every nuance of chassis design is fully by chance of physics alone. Drawing from the car analogies on this site, no one buys a luxury automobile for its performance attributes alone, no? I absolutely hate that pretentious MBL medallion. It’s like a round mouth screaming the three letters that don’t belong on a state-of-the-art Skynet-looking device. And why two of them on the same chassis, in some models!? It/They would look awful on a luxury car, too.
To to my ears, however, MBL transducers sound nice enough.

Think some of us are omni-biased. “Reflectofest” isn’t necessarily a bad thing, just depends on what kind of live venue you want your kit emulating, I suspect.