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“Klinger Favre vs others” or “Studio monitors vs hi-fi speakers”

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choqueiro

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It’s my first thread/message in the forum and I have the feeling that I have angered a lot of people here without really knowing why. I copy part of my initial message: “In reference to Klinger Favre speakers. I know very few people in this forum know them and many less have been able to listen to them. So if anyone could provide me of any information/experience about them, I would be very grateful”.

That someone told me that is the best speaker available doesn’t mean: that I would like it after hearing; that I have the similar taste; that I’m convinced to buy a product without hearing.

I have raised this matter on the forum, precisely, because: I don’t trust just one opinion and here are many good audiophiles, with many speakers upon his shoulders and also because maybe someone of the forum could have a personal experience with these speakers. I live far away from the manufacturer and, to me, having a first approach through an audio forum seems reasonable (maybe I’m wrong).

With respect to the brand and his popularity, difussion or importance, it’s obviously that we are not talking about a reference and popular brand. This said, it’s very well known in his own country (France) and it’s very well known in the French’s audio pro community.

Thanks to everyone and specially to pierre. Your opinion has been very useful to me.
 

Sancus

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It’s my first thread/message in the forum and I have the feeling that I have angered a lot of people here without really knowing why.
You shouldn't interpret as anger people disagreeing that there is anything notable about this company. It's just their opinion,.and nobody has been rude or upset at all.
 

YSC

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It’s my first thread/message in the forum and I have the feeling that I have angered a lot of people here without really knowing why. I copy part of my initial message: “In reference to Klinger Favre speakers. I know very few people in this forum know them and many less have been able to listen to them. So if anyone could provide me of any information/experience about them, I would be very grateful”.

That someone told me that is the best speaker available doesn’t mean: that I would like it after hearing; that I have the similar taste; that I’m convinced to buy a product without hearing.

I have raised this matter on the forum, precisely, because: I don’t trust just one opinion and here are many good audiophiles, with many speakers upon his shoulders and also because maybe someone of the forum could have a personal experience with these speakers. I live far away from the manufacturer and, to me, having a first approach through an audio forum seems reasonable (maybe I’m wrong).

With respect to the brand and his popularity, difussion or importance, it’s obviously that we are not talking about a reference and popular brand. This said, it’s very well known in his own country (France) and it’s very well known in the French’s audio pro community.

Thanks to everyone and specially to pierre. Your opinion has been very useful to me.
I would say vague internet opinion is nothing more than reading their marketing materials, first of all human isn't capable to really distinguish about flatness in FR, and in room (real life) listening impression is largely dominated by the playing material and even more on the room condition, where you sit, room modes or other things. one perfectly flat on axis speaker with great directivity can sound inferior if you put it in any random spot full of reflections and cancellations, say if you have both corner bass boost and desktop boost a flat speaker will sound muddy as bass will be boosted some 15-20db and overwhelms everything else, while you put it in some more decent locations it would sound clean and clear.

In this forum most of us tend to believe in measurements and then put into consideration our habits, speaker locations and music we want to enjoy to make a educated guess.

Imagine it's some speed dating, you can have dozens of guys praising how pretty and nice the girl is, but you just don't feel the same
 

FrantzM

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It’s my first thread/message in the forum and I have the feeling that I have angered a lot of people here without really knowing why. I copy part of my initial message: “In reference to Klinger Favre speakers. I know very few people in this forum know them and many less have been able to listen to them. So if anyone could provide me of any information/experience about them, I would be very grateful”.

That someone told me that is the best speaker available doesn’t mean: that I would like it after hearing; that I have the similar taste; that I’m convinced to buy a product without hearing.

I have raised this matter on the forum, precisely, because: I don’t trust just one opinion and here are many good audiophiles, with many speakers upon his shoulders and also because maybe someone of the forum could have a personal experience with these speakers. I live far away from the manufacturer and, to me, having a first approach through an audio forum seems reasonable (maybe I’m wrong).

With respect to the brand and his popularity, difussion or importance, it’s obviously that we are not talking about a reference and popular brand. This said, it’s very well known in his own country (France) and it’s very well known in the French’s audio pro community.

Thanks to everyone and specially to pierre. Your opinion has been very useful to me.
Don’t think you’ve angered anyone. The tone here is frank but a bit blunt at times. Once they (we) noticed a lack of repeatable or at least credible measurements… we become, and with just reasons, suspect , even dismissive. This said and to continue the, somewhat, traditions here: Welcome!
Then, bluntly, KF is suspect to me. Stay on the side of companies who aren’t afraid of their wares’ measurements by independent or creditable parties.

Peace..
 

DanielT

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I would say vague internet opinion is nothing more than reading their marketing materials, first of all human isn't capable to really distinguish about flatness in FR, and in room (real life) listening impression is largely dominated by the playing material and even more on the room condition, where you sit, room modes or other things. one perfectly flat on axis speaker with great directivity can sound inferior if you put it in any random spot full of reflections and cancellations, say if you have both corner bass boost and desktop boost a flat speaker will sound muddy as bass will be boosted some 15-20db and overwhelms everything else, while you put it in some more decent locations it would sound clean and clear.

In this forum most of us tend to believe in measurements and then put into consideration our habits, speaker locations and music we want to enjoy to make a educated guess.

Imagine it's some speed dating, you can have dozens of guys praising how pretty and nice the girl is, but you just don't feel the same

..and luckily it is.:)That we like different, that speakers work differently, different listening rooms, with different types of recordings. It create different soundscapes. It would be a very sad world if everyone thought exactly the same.

Fortunately, there is no major consensus in the thread I link to below.The proposals hail:


I only say dipole speakers, electrostatic speakers and there are those who love such, others think they just sound "equal" (regardless of music after a while listening, no dynamics .... but an open "clear" sound, wide "soundstage" and so on and so forth). Omni speakers? ...
And then I do not even have how much eco, reverberation time, attenuation of reflexes in the listening room you like..

:D

Edit:
Forgot! Maybe difference in taste in terms of directivity and desirable FR, BUT low distortion regarding speakers, I am basically quite sure that EVERYONE wants.

Room acoustics describes how sound behaves in an enclosed space. Sound of different frequencies behaves differently in a room. Reflections between walls, floor and ceiling create room modes at specific frequencies and locations. Reflections also produce reverberation.

After determining the best dimensions of the room, using the modal density criteria, the next step is to find the correct reverberation time. The most appropriate reverberation time depends on the use of the room


 

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ferrellms

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Hi!!

My name is Juan. I´m from Spain (Europe). I’m 42 years old. Father of three children of 3, 5 and 7 years old (I´m never bored.... hahaha). I work on a real estate company. We make buildings and sell the homes. Sorry for my horrible english. Let’s hope you understand me.

Lately I‘m hearing a lot of good things about Klinger Favre speakers… or I should better say studio monitors… (http://klinger-favre-english.blogspot.com/). If hi-fi world is already enough complicated for newbies like me, the controversial between these two type of products, one for the professional market and other for the home enthusiast, is really confusing. It seems to be a classical debate…(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...udio-monitors-vs-hi-end-hi-fi-speakers.26706/).

Recently I was talking with a renowned audiophile that has a high-end hi-fi shop, and he said me, talking about this controversy between professionals monitors vs hi-fi speakers the next: ”I don't care if it's studio or domestic. I only care about sound”. After hearing his words I think: That's not what this is all about?? The SOUND.

This audiophile also talked me about the Klinger Favre speakers. For him, one of the best out there, with no distinction between professional monitors or hi-fi speakers. In his favour I must said that he don’t sell Klinger Favre. Although he would like to sell it, Klinger sells only direct to customers. No dealers.

Many monitors are active’s. Not this case. From many monitors it is said that their sound is excessive analytical (that can cause fatigue) and I think: this quality is exclusive of the monitors?? Many hi-fi speakers are analytical, even harshness, and no one talk about “studio sound”. Furthermore, we talk in some cases of ”German sound” or similars…

In reference to Klinger Favre speakers. I know very few people in this forum know them and many less have been able to listen to them. So if anyone could provide me of any information/experience about them, I would be very grateful.

Thanks to everyone.
My advice to all the folks asking for speaker advice. Look at Amir's (and Erin's) test results and buy the highest rated one you can afford and that plays well with the other gear you have (given that is appropriate for your use - size, looks, etc. matter too).
 

Andili

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It’s my first thread/message in the forum and I have the feeling that I have angered a lot of people here without really knowing why. I copy part of my initial message: “In reference to Klinger Favre speakers. I know very few people in this forum know them and many less have been able to listen to them. So if anyone could provide me of any information/experience about them, I would be very grateful”.

That someone told me that is the best speaker available doesn’t mean: that I would like it after hearing; that I have the similar taste; that I’m convinced to buy a product without hearing.

I have raised this matter on the forum, precisely, because: I don’t trust just one opinion and here are many good audiophiles, with many speakers upon his shoulders and also because maybe someone of the forum could have a personal experience with these speakers. I live far away from the manufacturer and, to me, having a first approach through an audio forum seems reasonable (maybe I’m wrong).

With respect to the brand and his popularity, difussion or importance, it’s obviously that we are not talking about a reference and popular brand. This said, it’s very well known in his own country (France) and it’s very well known in the French’s audio pro community.

Thanks to everyone and specially to pierre. Your opinion has been very useful to me.
Hi Juan,

Sorry for the late reply to your thread but I've only just seen it. I already own my second pair of Studio 15 from Klinger favre because I started switching to much more expensive speakers many years ago because I thought at the time that more expensive always equals better. I then tried a number of speakers. TAD CR1MK2 (50k euros), Rockport Atria (32k euros), Zellaton Grand 75years edition (45k euros), Verity Audio Parsifal (30k euros), wilson Audio Sascha (30k euros). Only the TAD and the Zellaton played in a league with the no longer produced Studio 15. The rest doesn't even come close to the sound quality of the Klinger Favre. The Klinger Favre combines the slam of a Wilson with the subtlety of a Zellaton. For me, the most important attributes next to a large stage are homogeneity, fidelity to the timbre, especially in the midrange, and fine resolution. Today I listen with a Studio 15 with the matching Ultratweeter which had a new price of about 15k euros. Comparable to this is the Studio 17UT today for around 17k euros. And I have another new 32k speakers at home which cannot compete with the Klinger Favre... You are invited to have a listen If you come to Germany/munich area! I hope my experience will still help you, even if I'm a bit late.

Greetings from Munich
Andreas
 

fineMen

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Hi Juan,

Sorry for the late reply to your thread but...
Same here, but ... the French Kartesian drivers are quite good. I once had a coaxial here that performed o/k-ish, taken my incredibly critical stance into account, and not the least was way louder than any other, half a p/a deivice in this regard. But the remaining issues bothered me enough to send it back, e/g a surround resonance of the mid-driver.

As far as this may render the klinger favre a respectable brand, they are 'French' in that they depart from common wisdom and best practices. A little bit like the over-innovation that the French automaker Citroen suffered from a long time (ago). As usual many innovations in audio (later) reveal to be wishful thinking. Putting the well chosen drivers aside, there is no innovation other than what already failed once in the past. Horns for bass for instance. The unreasonably massive copper (brass?) rings around the tweeters, supersonic tweeters ... the whole attitude is questionable in my book. As to quote Monty Python: "Let's keep China British!"
 

holdingpants01

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there's nothing "studio" about them, it's a audiophile brand with audiophile products, zero connection to studio or pro audio. They claim they sold the equipment to some institutions and studios but what equipment and for what purpose we don't know

Screenshot 2023-08-29 at 14.16.57.png


yikes...
 
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computer-audiophile

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As far as this may render the klinger favre a respectable brand, they are 'French' in that they depart from common wisdom and best practices
Wisdom and best practice can be defined in different ways.

I like classic French audio as much as I like French cuisine, some special French designs and of course fashion. The Maison de L'audiophile in Paris was one such cult place for audiophiles that I loved. What I don't like is boring average stuff.

Many craftsmen in France have the term "Artisan" in their job title. E.g. Artisan Chocolatier etc.
 

computer-audiophile

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Once, when we were selecting loudspeakers for the listening studio of the composers' and sound researchers' group C.A.R.M.E.N., of which I am a member, there was also a demonstration at Klinger Favre in Saint Dié Vosges. But the patron refused to turn up the loudspeakers really loud. As a result, they refrained from doing so and ordered horn loudspeakers from Avantgarde Acoustic.
 

fineMen

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Wisdom and best practice can be defined in different ways.

I like classic French audio as much as I like French cuisine, some special French designs and of course fashion. The Maison de L'audiophile in Paris was one such cult place for audiophiles that I loved. What I don't like is boring average stuff.

Many craftsmen in France have the term "Artisan" in their job title. E.g. Artisan Chocolatier etc.
No offense, I had a classy Citroen myself, the 'XM'. It drove plain excellent and on the backseat it was literally presidential. Even to me as a 6,5 footer it was so generous ... .No comparison to the (in)famous contemporary S-class. The engine as quiet as it was astoundingly stark and not thursty. Me thiks, the country itself is a marvel, common people included.

French audio, though, to me means Focal for instance, with not so successful inverted dome tweeters. Audax as a copy-cat of KEF's. PHL with the highest IM I ever saw in a midrange howling along. And, as seen here, some peculiar sort of non-british (means: Anglican'ly muted) bourgeois baroque.

As said, the Kartesian drivers won't compete superior with some outstanding top specimen, but efficiency is very high while maintainig full HiFi potential. The execution; I actually don't know, but the high-end blurb on the website multiplied by exaggerated visual design doesn't pull me in further.
 

dfuller

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PHL with the highest IM I ever saw in a midrange howling along.
PHL makes some pretty solid woofers (Genelec and Neumann use them on the bigger speakers, ie KH420 and 1237 etc) but yeah not heard great things about midrange.
 

Andili

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No offense, I had a classy Citroen myself, the 'XM'. It drove plain excellent and on the backseat it was literally presidential. Even to me as a 6,5 footer it was so generous ... .No comparison to the (in)famous contemporary S-class. The engine as quiet as it was astoundingly stark and not thursty. Me thiks, the country itself is a marvel, common people included.

French audio, though, to me means Focal for instance, with not so successful inverted dome tweeters. Audax as a copy-cat of KEF's. PHL with the highest IM I ever saw in a midrange howling along. And, as seen here, some peculiar sort of non-british (means: Anglican'ly muted) bourgeois baroque.

As said, the Kartesian drivers won't compete superior with some outstanding top specimen, but efficiency is very high while maintainig full HiFi potential. The execution; I actually don't know, but the high-end blurb on the website multiplied by exaggerated visual design doesn't pull me in further.
The Studio 15 have Scanspeak mid-woofers (which were built to special specifications for Klinger Favre and are also treated with C37 paint by Klinger Favre). Unfortunately, the Studio 15 was taken out of the program the year before last because of the Scanspeak chassis, since Klinger Favre has also been manufacturing all 17 inch drivers themselves for a while. Since many customers who actually wanted to buy a larger model because of the 15 inch Scanspeak chassis (much to the annoyance of the Klinger Favre owner, by the way, since he is of the opinion that you buy his total work of art and not a Scanspeak chassis and his speakers sound the way they sound and because of him not because of the Scanspeak chassis) but mostly opted for the Studio 15 Hr. Baquet made this decision.
 

fineMen

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The Studio 15 have Scanspeak mid-woofers
Thanks for clarification. I only saw their reference to Kartesian and couldn't resist to spill my experiences in. Guess what, I prefer the Kartesians over good ol' Scan Speaks, performance wise. I hope I get the wink with the 'artisan' self attribution right ;-)
 

pierre

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Studio_38_Klinger_favre_blanches-detail_uid_62cc7b6d35ac2.jpg


They now have a big speaker that looks nice. I didn't listen to it and I don't know the price but I expect a large one.
 

Mnyb

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there's nothing "studio" about them, it's a audiophile brand with audiophile products, zero connection to studio or pro audio. They claim they sold the equipment to some institutions and studios but what equipment and for what purpose we don't know

View attachment 308511

yikes...
This !! yep cable snakeoil stay away , they are not to be considered as a serious company , this is a tell tale that something is seriously wrong with their development process .
 

computer-audiophile

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This !! yep cable snakeoil stay away , they are not to be considered as a serious company , this is a tell tale that something is seriously wrong with their development process .
In my estimation, this insult does not do justice to Klinger Favre where beautiful luxury products for demanding audiophiles are made. The philosophy of ASR-Objectivists may fall short here.
 
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