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Revel M105 Bookshelf Speaker Review

KaiserSoze

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Yeah agreed we are making things far too complicated!

How about 10mm white acrylic sheet cut to match the shape of the M106, bonded down to the small metal plate using a compatible epoxy (I'll have to strip off the black foam pad first and sand off the PPC), and forget about the screw holes and just put the speaker on top? I will probably put a few isolation rubber grip pads down for good measure.

In fact, without having to bolt the speaker down to the acrylic, I can reduce the thickness again to, say 6mm. That is more like it!

I think this is a much more practical plan. Drilling the three holes for affixing the speaker to the stand is something that you can add later if you want. All you really need to do now is cut, shape and polish the acrylic and attach it to the metal plate. 6 mm is probably thick enough if the acrylic is securely bonded to the metal plate such that it can't lift at the middle (which would accommodate bending down at the edges). It won't hurt to go thicker. 10 mm or 12 mm isn't going to look too thick at all. And as for cutting it, you're obviously going to need some kind of saw regardless, and some mechanized means to trim it down and polish it. If you have a hand-held router you can do most of it using a flush trim bit with bearing to ride on the metal plate, using the metal plate as a template. Or else a small table saw and a means to sand it down to final shape. If you have a table-mounted router you can do it without using a table saw. With either a table saw or a table-mounted router you probably will want to use the miter gauge that slides in the groove, not the rail, because the rail assumes that the edge you slide along the rail is already straight and parallel to what you want the finished cut to be. If you don't have many tools you can probably get by with a cheap jigsaw, but you want to be careful to cut outside the line and you will need to do a lot of sanding to bring it down to finished size. To use a jigsaw you need some means to clamp the work piece down securely to a work table or bench. This will be especially important with acrylic because it will bend, and the teeth of the blade will snag as soon as it bends. (This is another advantage of using a thicker piece of acrylic - it is easier to cut a thick piece of material with a jigsaw than a thin piece, so long as the thick piece isn't too thick relative to the blade length and the reciprocating motion.) You can do most of the sanding with a cheap random-orbit handheld sander, but to get the edge perfectly straight it is best to use a long, perfectly flat sanding block, longer than the sheet of corundum paper so that the sheet will only wrap around the sides of the block and not over the ends. The longer the block the better. Scrap pieces of MDF make excellent sanding blocks. In fact, if you have the means to cut some 3/4" MDF precisely (on a table saw) you can make a long sanding block with a second piece of MDF the same length screwed together in the shape of a 'T'. This will allow you to keep the sanding surface (the edge you are sanding) at a proper 90-degree angle to the main flat surface of the work piece, similar to some of the special cutting planes that traditional work-workers use for putting a proper edge on a board. If you have a table saw or router table with fence, the 90-degree angle between the table surface and the fence can serve the same purpose. In a pinch a good flat kitchen counter or table can suffice if you can figure out something to take the place of the rail, that will stand at 90-degrees to the table surface and stay where you put it. The reason I mention all this is that if you've never tried to plane the edge of a board so that it will come even close to being straight and at right angles to the main flat surfaces of the board, you may be surprised at just how difficult this seemingly simple task proves to be. It is most important to make a couple of practice pieces from some cheap scrap material before you start cutting on the acrylic. Even if you have to buy some material to use as scrap, e.g., a couple of cheap pine boards, this is prudent so long as what you have to pay for the scrap isn't more than what you pay for the acrylic. The first work piece you work on, whatever material it is, is guaranteed to be destined for the scrap pile. As a general rule do not even start to work on the actual work piece until you have completed a practice piece to the very end and there isn't anything about it that you don't like or that you wished you had taken more time with.
 

tomtan

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I have bought these second hand and just tested them the last 2 days. I have to say that they subjectively don't sound good. We've tried blind testing them against my old sonos beam and blind testing them against the prime elevation I bought for atmos (using zone 1 and zone 2 on the denon AVR X4600H) and in all cases the M105 sounds the worst (worse too than pretty much any headphones I have too)... I wrote a more elaborate post here #20

I'm a bit dumbfounded because the spinorama is so good and the review from Amir seemed to show that he liked them? I'm wondering if I'm doing anything wrong or if they could have been damaged by shipping (but they were in their original packaging and seemed well protected)... Also if a speaker was blown it would be noticeable not just muddy?
 

Thomas_A

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I have bought these second hand and just tested them the last 2 days. I have to say that they subjectively don't sound good. We've tried blind testing them against my old sonos beam and blind testing them against the prime elevation I bought for atmos (using zone 1 and zone 2 on the denon AVR X4600H) and in all cases the M105 sounds the worst (worse too than pretty much any headphones I have too)... I wrote a more elaborate post here #20

I'm a bit dumbfounded because the spinorama is so good and the review from Amir seemed to show that he liked them? I'm wondering if I'm doing anything wrong or if they could have been damaged by shipping (but they were in their original packaging and seemed well protected)... Also if a speaker was blown it would be noticeable not just muddy?

What is the impression of them in more descriptive words? If one speaker is faulty, it should be evident by testing them separately.
 

richard12511

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I have bought these second hand and just tested them the last 2 days. I have to say that they subjectively don't sound good. We've tried blind testing them against my old sonos beam and blind testing them against the prime elevation I bought for atmos (using zone 1 and zone 2 on the denon AVR X4600H) and in all cases the M105 sounds the worst (worse too than pretty much any headphones I have too)... I wrote a more elaborate post here #20

I'm a bit dumbfounded because the spinorama is so good and the review from Amir seemed to show that he liked them? I'm wondering if I'm doing anything wrong or if they could have been damaged by shipping (but they were in their original packaging and seemed well protected)... Also if a speaker was blown it would be noticeable not just muddy?

Do they both sound the same? Unlikely they both got damaged in the same way.
 

tomtan

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Do they both sound the same? Unlikely they both got damaged in the same way.

To me, it feels that the bass overpowers everything else and whenever I listen to mid or highs, there's not much clarity. Instead of hearing differing instruments distinctly, everything kind of blends together. I wouldn't call the SVS prime elevation great speakers nor would I call the Sonos beam a great soundbar (which is why I'm trying to sell it) but both sound better than that and both me and my partner could both instantly recognize that when blind testing (one person switched between the different speakers the other listened)...

They both pretty much sound the same... I will test that more thoroughly but haven't noticed any obvious difference.
 

Dj7675

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Below is a frequency response of the Sonos Beam taken from:
https://www.rtings.com/soundbar/0-8/graph#836/2714
It has a sloping upward or exageratted upper frequencies vs a sloping downward slope which is generally preferred by most people. I am guessing you have gotten used to an upward sloping and/or much brighter speaker.

beam.png
 

tomtan

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Below is a frequency response of the Sonos Beam taken from:
https://www.rtings.com/soundbar/0-8/graph#836/2714
It has a sloping upward or exageratted upper frequencies vs a sloping downward slope which is generally preferred by most people. I am guessing you have gotten used to an upward sloping and/or much brighter speaker.

I guess it could be because I'm used to exaggerated upper frequencies but to be clear I hate the sonos beam and consider them to also be very unclear when listening, it's just that it's not as awful.

My main point of comparison and what I listen to the most are my headphones: a HD6XX, a Meze 99 classic, a MrSpeakers Ether CX and a stax sr007. I don't think any of those have really exagerated upper frequencies? I do also have some Beyerdynamics that are extremely "bright" but not comparing them to that. All those headphones sound significantly better but then again, the reason I wanted to sell my sonos beam in the first place and start getting speakers was how bad it sounded after listening to my headphones.
 

Archsam

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To me, it feels that the bass overpowers everything else and whenever I listen to mid or highs, there's not much clarity. Instead of hearing differing instruments distinctly, everything kind of blends together.

This is the same initial impression I had when I first switched my Harbeth P3esr to the M105. But I figured out what the issues were and now they sound really really good.

A few things I discovered as I worked on my own set up:

  • My living room is on the small side (3.5m wide x 4.9m deep x 2.6m tall) and my speakers are positioned 34cm from the back wall. The Harbeth, which is a sealed box design, don't have much below 75Hz, but their bass sounded right where they resided. Once I put the M105 in the same spot, their rear firing bass reflex ports overwhelmed the room, and the sound was boomy and not balanced at all. The exaggerated bass response had two effects: 1) the boomy bass takes away the clarity in the mid range, and 2) the mid range became more recessed due to the boosted low frequency.
  • I started this thread to learn about taming the bass of the speaker's rear port. I worked out how a bass reflex port works, and realised the port's tuned resonance frequency and my room mode are very likely aligned, causing the bass boost. So after a few experiments, in the end I cut two pieces of pipe insulation to a precise length and inserted them into the ports, the length of the insulation was determined using an online calculator to work out the tuned port frequency based on speaker cabinet volume, port diameter and length, and I was able to shift the port resonance frequency away from the room mode frequencies and the boom has mostly been tamed.
  • While the M105 has a wide directivity waveguided tweeter, it doesn't mean these speakers are forgiving in placement. I found that I had to tweak their toe in quite precisely to get a good phantom centre. It took a bit of playing around, but once done the soundstage and holographic effect are amazing.
 
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MoviesnMusic

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Yeah agreed we are making things far too complicated!

How about 10mm white acrylic sheet cut to match the shape of the M106, bonded down to the small metal plate using a compatible epoxy (I'll have to strip off the black foam pad first and sand off the PPC), and forget about the screw holes and just put the speaker on top? I will probably put a few isolation rubber grip pads down for good measure.

In fact, without having to bolt the speaker down to the acrylic, I can reduce the thickness again to, say 6mm. That is more like it!

I have theses stands.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CQCIRTG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Going into it, I knew I wanted an exact fit to my m106's. Wanting to bold them to the stands.So I made a template and cut to size using scrap steel, I already had. Just used spray paint since only the edges would be exposed. Used some thin1/4" foam padding between speaker and metal plate.
IMG_1393.JPG




IMG_1394.JPG


IMG_1396.JPG
IMG_1397.JPG
 
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Ausghostdog

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Hi,
What are your opinions of powering these with a SMSL sa300 that does 40w per channel at 8ohm? Would it be too under powered to run them and then cliping the amp?
Or should be ok as long as I am not maxing out the volume?
 

Rick Sykora

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Hi,
What are your opinions of powering these with a SMSL sa300 that does 40w per channel at 8ohm? Would it be too under powered to run them and then cliping the amp?
Or should be ok as long as I am not maxing out the volume?

Hi and welcome to ASR!

Cannot answer your question without knowing room size, how close you sit to speakers and listening habits (loud rock music, soft background, etc.) :)
 

Ausghostdog

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Hi and welcome to ASR!

Cannot answer your question without knowing room size, how close you sit to speakers and listening habits (loud rock music, soft background, etc.) :)
Fair point, these would be used for desktop speakers, looking at replacing my current Audioengine hdp6 passives. I would be sitting less than a meter away from them. They would be used for everything from music, gaming, movies and such.Music listening changes all the time, give you an idea top ten songs on Spotify last year were
Annotation 2020-08-04 114303.png


Given the close proximity to the speakers, I am thinking that the smsl sa300 should be OK, I am just concerned about cliping the amp, I am looking at either these or the KEF LS50 which the smsl sa300 would be able to power no issues.
 

raindance

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It’s due to the waveguide, notice how it’s mostly gone in the listening window. Most speakers with a waveguide on the tweeter will have a similar issue on-axis.

For this one, the PIR curve is still elevated in that region, so some minor adjustment with an EQ should fix that. If you have a plain stereo unit with only bass/treble knobs; then that won’t be of much help.

Audiophiles don't have tone controls! Now you're talking crazy!
 

Chromatischism

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I wonder how the new Buchardt A500 will be received, with its loudness compensation and room correction.
They will lose the purists, for sure. :)

I think those functions are controlled by the external electronics, though, which are optional. As an aside, it would be nice if Amir could confirm the measurements (they design using the same Klippel machine) here: https://www.buchardtaudio.com/a500-detailed-description

But this speaker is at a higher price point. Who knows if he would get his hands on one.

Once again they induce a drop in sound power at the crossover in the vertical direction. This is likely intentionally shaped to help mask the sudden change in directivity around the crossover, which has been done for decades and is why Audyssey created the "Midrange Compensation" to prevent EQ from boosting that area, which would make the directivity error more obvious and harsh. At least if you have carpet or a thick rug it should mostly be absorbed, and since the direct sound and listening window is flat, it may be audible but less than it looks on paper.
 

RichB

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They will lose the purists, for sure. :)

I think those functions are controlled by the external electronics, though, which are optional. As an aside, it would be nice if Amir could confirm the measurements (they design using the same Klippel machine) here: https://www.buchardtaudio.com/a500-detailed-description

But this speaker is at a higher price point. Who knows if he would get his hands on one.

Once again they induce a drop in sound power at the crossover in the vertical direction. This is likely intentionally shaped to help mask the sudden change in directivity around the crossover, which has been done for decades and is why Audyssey created the "Midrange Compensation" to prevent EQ from boosting that area, which would make the directivity error more obvious and harsh. At least if you have carpet or a thick rug it should mostly be absorbed, and since the direct sound and listening window is flat, it may be audible but less than it looks on paper.

It's nice to see manufacturers supplying these measurements. That said, they are not that great at directivity.

- Rich
 

jonfitch

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I prefer the performance of the M105 with the port plugs for sure, the rear bass port is pretty noisy. The substandard bass performance definitely detracts frrom the speaker but I've never heard anything bad (especially not bright enough) about the treble performance.
 
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