Center with good directivity for Revel M126Be?

[napilopez]

I thought I'd consult the hive mind and see what others with the M126Be or perhaps the M106 were using for center channels with decent horizontal directivity. The C208 seems like the obvious choice, but I'd really like to keep it under $1000 shipped (the less the better lol). Plus it's massive and seems like overkill for my space. I will be using a sub.

I'm currently using a definitive technology D5C which I found for super cheap locally and seems to do a good job in terms of tonality (the D11 and D9 were both solid). But I do notice a slight tonality shift off axis, which actually doesn't bother me as much as the fact that it's so directional -- I can very clearly hear the dialogue is coming from the speaker, both horizontally and vertically.

So my preferences are:
-Under $1000
-Directivity at least as wide as the M126Be.
-Horizontal orientation much preferred for aesthetics.
-Similar dynamic capability to the M126Be, although I'd settle for a bit less.
-Available in anything other than black.

At the moment I'm considering just getting an M105, as that just barely fits in my setup, but I think the aesthetics of a third bookshelf as a center might just kill me. Especially when I don't like how the bookshelf looks all that much in the first place.

Has anybody listened to the Revel C12? It seems to check off many boxes, but I can't seem to find measurements for it, plus it's part of the concerta rather than the performa line.

 

[spamilton]

I actually use a M126Be as my center. My console won't fit a very big horizontal center, and I didn't want to have to raise the TV to fit one on top. I wanted the biggest sound possible that would fit in my space with the shelves removed, and the Revel is as good as I'm going to get until I get a new console some time in the distant future. I tried many centers through this process and the Revel was the biggest and clearest sounding for sure. An M105/106 would be fine as well. I just put some books on both sides of it to help with decor.

 

[staticV3]

@napilopez I could only find one center that meets all your requirements:

Elac Reference UCR52 Review (Center Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Elac Unifi Reference UCR52 center home theater speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. The UCR52 costs US $700. The UCR52 enclosure is nice looking but I don't the wisdom of having highly reflective, chrome...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[napilopez]

I actually use a M126Be as my center. My console won't fit a very big horizontal center, and I didn't want to have to raise the TV to fit one on top. I wanted the biggest sound possible that would fit in my space with the shelves removed, and the Revel is as good as I'm going to get until I get a new console some time in the distant future. I tried many centers through this process and the Revel was the biggest and clearest sounding for sure. An M105/106 would be fine as well. I just put some books on both sides of it to help with decor.

The M126Be and M106 are just a hair too tall, hence the idea of the M105. Honestly appreciate the suggestion of the books. Maybe the aesthetics are salvageable if I fill my console with enough other things. We do have a bit of a maximalist thing going on anyway. I don't think I'd be able to tilt the M105's up without blocking part of the screen though.

@napilopez I could only find one center that meets all your requirements:

Elac Reference UCR52 Review (Center Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Elac Unifi Reference UCR52 center home theater speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. The UCR52 costs US $700. The UCR52 enclosure is nice looking but I don't the wisdom of having highly reflective, chrome...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Oof. thanks for looking!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Will the KEF LS50 Meta fit your space? Not the greatest looks though fits your price ($800 for one), and has symmetrical directionality. There is also the active version of it.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Laserjock]

I have the C208 to go with my F208 but since I bought a 100” LED panel, I use an Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 UC52 in the cabinet (Standout Designs space under the TV) hidden behind a grill.

I have it angled upward using rubber door stops.

It does a great job with speech etc but I haven’t done a bunch of music or pushed it much.

 

[staticV3]

Will the KEF LS50 Meta fit your space? Not the greatest looks though fits your price ($800 for one), and has symmetrical directionality. There is also the active version of it.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Used horizontally as a center, the directivity is not as wide as the M126Be, so doesn't meet OP's requirements:

 

[napilopez]

Will the KEF LS50 Meta fit your space? Not the greatest looks though fits your price ($800 for one), and has symmetrical directionality. There is also the active version of it.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yep as noted above the LS50 Meta directivity is too narrow for my tastes, unfortunately. Still it might be a better compromise than a 2-way non-coaxial.

I'm thinking I'll give the M105 a try for a bit and see how I like it. Otherwise, I might just hazard the C12. The one measurement I could find doesn't look too bad (0, 45, 60 degrees)

The Revel Concerta F12 Surround Sound Speaker System Measurements

Measurements All measurements on the F12 and C12 were made with the grilles removed. The grille actually made little measured difference in the response of the F12, but a bit more in the C12 (a dip of about 2-3dB in the 3-4kHz region). The impedance of the F12 is typical of a ported enclosure...

www.soundandvision.com

Smoothed, but sound and visions old measurements were generally accurate and the speaker seems to maintain wide radiation betwee out to 60degrees up to 6khz or so. The lower midrange scoop is pretty normal for three way centers, not any worse than on the c208.

 

[Laserjock]

Ascend Acoustics

Sierra LX Center?

 

[napilopez]

Ascend Acoustics

Sierra LX Center?

Thanks but nah, might as well just use the M105 horizontally in that case.

Which honestly, isn't the worst idea. Still better directivity than the C25 or presumably C205

 

[NTK]

They are a bit over your budget and I don't know if you can get a single one. Reviewed by Erin.

Mobile Fidelity - SourcePoint 8 Bookshelf Speakers (Black, Pair) **OPEN BOX**

The world's largest online retailer of high-end audio, audiophile music, and accessories. We specialize in vinyl records and turntables.

www.musicdirect.com

 

[staticV3]

They are a bit over your budget and I don't know if you can get a single one. Reviewed by Erin.

Mobile Fidelity - SourcePoint 8 Bookshelf Speakers (Black, Pair) **OPEN BOX**

The world's largest online retailer of high-end audio, audiophile music, and accessories. We specialize in vinyl records and turntables.

www.musicdirect.com

Way more narrow than the M126Be, which OP explicitly wants to avoid.

 

[NTK]

Way more narrow than the M126Be.

This is Erin's measurement of the M126Be. I'd consider it a little bit narrower (and the MoFi can still do +/- 30 deg @ < 10 kHz)

 

[Timcognito]

RSL CG25 Center Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests and measurements of the RSL CG25 center home theater speaker. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $425. This is an unusual design in that the port goes through a path in the back which kind of resembles a very short/truncated transmission channel...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[mcdn]

Do you really need a centre? Just asking!

 

[napilopez]

This is Erin's measurement of the M126Be. I'd consider it a little bit narrower (and the MoFi can still do +/- 30 deg @ < 10 kHz)

Thank very much you for the suggestion, but @staticV3 is correct about the mofi being too narrow. Again, still better than an MTM though.

Going on a tangent now, but this is actually why I don't like contour plots/polar maps; they tend obscure significant differences between speakers where it most matters, imo.

It might be a bit easier to see with the early reflections breakout. I can do a comparison when at my PC, but sidewall reflections -- roughly 40-60 degrees -- are about 2-3dB louder between 2kHz-8kHz on the revel compared to Mofi, relative to their respective direct-sound.

It may not seem to much but that's twice the sound intensity and precisely why revel speakers are generally considered to have a wide soundstage, especially relative to other wave-guided speakers.

That's the difference between normal/narrow directivity speakers (Genelec/Neumann/KEF) with big waveguides and the wider cone-and dome speakers. What revel(and the wider JBLs) do pretty uniquely I think is that they use a waveguide that keeps things fairly wide, even if the data isn't as pretty.

If you look at off axis SPL data for the Salon 2, I think the reason theyre still the top Revel in blind tests (closely followed by the f328be, I believe) is that they still have the widest dispersion, probably due to the sculpted cabinets.

Thanks for attending my TED talk.

Do you really need a centre? Just asking!

I've actually long preferred the phantom center, but with movies and TV increasingly mixed with whisper quiet dialogue, I've gotten tired of constantly adjusting the volume and settings. Plus, the most comfortable part of the couch isn't quite at the sweep spot. The Revels do have a remarkably wide sweet spot, but it none the less does shift and blur as you move away from the center.

Other times one of my cats is in the sweet spot, and she must not be disturbed.

 

[mcdn]

I've actually long preferred the phantom center, but with movies and TV increasingly mixed with whisper quiet dialogue, I've gotten tired of constantly adjusting the volume and settings. Plus, the most comfortable part of the couch isn't quite at the sweep spot. The Revels do have a remarkably wide sweet spot, but it none the less does shift and blur as you move away from the center.

Other times one of my cats is in the sweet spot, and she must not be disturbed.

Never move the cat. They hold grudges and attempts to appease them with wet meat will be seen, rightly, as signs of weakness.

Interesting point about the dialogue mix, but I think this is a common misconception about the centre channel. It is not a dialogue channel! When you have a centre speaker it becomes the main speaker for the front of your system, and the front L+R become effects channels. This makes sense if you think about a movie theatre, where the centre channel covers the width of the screen. See this post and thread for interesting discussion on the topic.

So adding a centre won't for most movies solve the dialogue intelligibility problem. There are movies where the centre is mostly dialogue but they are rare. In fact unless it has ~double the SPL capability of either of your L+R speakers it will actually reduce power handling and presumably increase distortion as well.

 

[spamilton]

I've actually long preferred the phantom center, but with movies and TV increasingly mixed with whisper quiet dialogue, I've gotten tired of constantly adjusting the volume and settings. Plus, the most comfortable part of the couch isn't quite at the sweep spot. The Revels do have a remarkably wide sweet spot, but it none the less does shift and blur as you move away from the center.

This was my issue as well. I tried so hard to just stick with stereo, but many shows and movies the dialogue just gets lost in the mix. I try to avoid the dialogue boost function whenever possible considering it just boosts everything in those frequencies and can get boomy/muddy. Being able to independently increase center channel content volume is the key benefit to adding that speaker.

It sounds like the M105 would be your best bet.

 

[jhaider]

The M126Be and M106 are just a hair too tall,

Raise the TV a bit? IMO the answer is rarely anything but identical LCR.

Going from 708i L/R and SCL-3 center in the old house to 708i LCR is probably the biggest improvement in this system compared to that one.

 

[JAJDACT]

IMO the answer is rarely anything but identical LCR.

I agree,I used to have Ascend Sierra LX's for my LCR,and all placed at the same height,and it was the best sounding setup I have had. I'm going back to that same setup again in a few weeks.