IOTAVX SA3 Stereo Amplifier Review

[confucius_zero]

listening impressions?

well yes and even with the power amp vs the wxa50 on a pair of focal Kanta 2 and klipsch 8000F. Dac'ed by an EXAsound.

The SA3 was on par in the mids, highs and staging but lacked the sub-bass extension of the WXA50. Bridging it with its power-amp extended the bass a little but not enough to deliver the dynamics of the Yammy. Using the built-in DAC helped it a bit better but still I was wondering where's the bass XD

 

[Xulonn]

@confucius_zero , is that a dealer's room? Because almost all of the components I see are not listed in your signature lines. The room is pretty cool, and nicely treated, with diffuser blocks on the front wall, and absorption panels of the side wall. Lots of nice gear - and someone is obviously into vacuum tube audio. I see a Musical Paradise tube DAC, what looks like an Allnic $12K tube amp, and an $8.5K Moon "differential amplifier" that is said to have a "tube-like" sound. So the tendency of the owner of that gear seems to lean towards "fixed euphonic coloration" at the source and in the chain rather than pursuing the best accuracy and transparency with DSP at the end to add the coloration.

Either way, the word "destroyed" is an over-the-top expression frequently used by a segment of the younger generation that this old guy calls "The Yo-Dude Generation". It tells us nothing about the comparative performance of the two amplifiers - and has an audiophile subjectivist feeling to it.
In your follow-up post, you tell us that this impression is only about head-banger sub-bass levels without a subwoofer. Is this the only area in which you found the IOTAVX to be deficient? If so, using the word "destroyed" without a qualification is very misleading.

Since Amir measured the IOTA as rolled off a bit in the bass region - and less powerful, I would expect it to be weaker in the sub-bass (defined as frequencies below 6oHz). And that "deficiency" could be rendered non-relevant with the use of a subwoofer by those who are into acoustic head-banging or electronic music with subterranean bass.

Although neither amp appeals to me based on my current interests and requirements, I am partial to the style of the IOTAVX. But I also prefer Class D over Class AB, and don't need or want streaming and Ethernet connectivity. In fact, I am pretty much a single source guy (although I could actually have two or three if they are all digital and I use USB, Toslink and coaxial as discrete sources), so I don't want an integrated.

So why am I writing these comments about gear I don't own or desire to own? Because I have been curious about many aspects of audio technology since my high school days in the late 1950s, and am also interested in how people relate to their components and systems.

 

[confucius_zero]

And that "deficiency" could be rendered non-relevant with the use of a subwoofer by those who are into acoustic head-banging or electronic music with subterranean bass.

No headbangs on either amps but the wxa50, while being similar on other aspects of performance, extended dynamics lower in the bass region with better articulation, no veil, regardless of loudness. So the wxa50 didn't require a sub support but the sa3 did in both configs.

Extrapolate as you desire.

 

[Appleguy33]

@confucius_zero , is that a dealer's room? Because almost all of the components I see are not listed in your signature lines. The room is pretty cool, and nicely treated, with diffuser blocks on the front wall, and absorption panels of the side wall. Lots of nice gear - and someone is obviously into vacuum tube audio. I see a Musical Paradise tube DAC, what looks like an Allnic $12K tube amp, and an $8.5K Moon "differential amplifier" that is said to have a "tube-like" sound. So the tendency of the owner of that gear seems to lean towards "fixed euphonic coloration" at the source and in the chain rather than pursuing the best accuracy and transparency with DSP at the end to add the coloration.

Either way, the word "destroyed" is an over-the-top expression frequently used by a segment of the younger generation that this old guy calls "The Yo-Dude Generation". It tells us nothing about the comparative performance of the two amplifiers - and has an audiophile subjectivist feeling to it.
In your follow-up post, you tell us that this impression is only about head-banger sub-bass levels without a subwoofer. Is this the only area in which you found the IOTAVX to be deficient? If so, using the word "destroyed" without a qualification is very misleading.

Since Amir measured the IOTA as rolled off a bit in the bass region - and less powerful, I would expect it to be weaker in the sub-bass (defined as frequencies below 6oHz). And that "deficiency" could be rendered non-relevant with the use of a subwoofer by those who are into acoustic head-banging or electronic music with subterranean bass.

Although neither amp appeals to me based on my current interests and requirements, I am partial to the style of the IOTAVX. But I also prefer Class D over Class AB, and don't need or want streaming and Ethernet connectivity. In fact, I am pretty much a single source guy (although I could actually have two or three if they are all digital and I use USB, Toslink and coaxial as discrete sources), so I don't want an integrated.

So why am I writing these comments about gear I don't own or desire to own? Because I have been curious about many aspects of audio technology since my high school days in the late 1950s, and am also interested in how people relate to their components and systems.

@confucius_zero , is that a dealer's room? Because almost all of the components I see are not listed in your signature lines. The room is pretty cool, and nicely treated, with diffuser blocks on the front wall, and absorption panels of the side wall. Lots of nice gear - and someone is obviously into vacuum tube audio. I see a Musical Paradise tube DAC, what looks like an Allnic $12K tube amp, and an $8.5K Moon "differential amplifier" that is said to have a "tube-like" sound. So the tendency of the owner of that gear seems to lean towards "fixed euphonic coloration" at the source and in the chain rather than pursuing the best accuracy and transparency with DSP at the end to add the coloration.

Either way, the word "destroyed" is an over-the-top expression frequently used by a segment of the younger generation that this old guy calls "The Yo-Dude Generation". It tells us nothing about the comparative performance of the two amplifiers - and has an audiophile subjectivist feeling to it.
In your follow-up post, you tell us that this impression is only about head-banger sub-bass levels without a subwoofer. Is this the only area in which you found the IOTAVX to be deficient? If so, using the word "destroyed" without a qualification is very misleading.

Since Amir measured the IOTA as rolled off a bit in the bass region - and less powerful, I would expect it to be weaker in the sub-bass (defined as frequencies below 6oHz). And that "deficiency" could be rendered non-relevant with the use of a subwoofer by those who are into acoustic head-banging or electronic music with subterranean bass.

Although neither amp appeals to me based on my current interests and requirements, I am partial to the style of the IOTAVX. But I also prefer Class D over Class AB, and don't need or want streaming and Ethernet connectivity. In fact, I am pretty much a single source guy (although I could actually have two or three if they are all digital and I use USB, Toslink and coaxial as discrete sources), so I don't want an integrated.

So why am I writing these comments about gear I don't own or desire to own? Because I have been curious about many aspects of audio technology since my high school days in the late 1950s, and am also interested in how people relate to their components and systems.

In my experience and from what I’ve seen in the “audiophile world” is we at times cross paths with an item that rebels against our perception of what is good vs bad. That there’s no way this thing sounds this good at this price. So we justify why we think it isn’t “good“ , even though it sounds “good”. So we skip over to the more expensive item that didn’t sound very good and we fall back into the pattern of searching for that “perfect” sound. In reality we want the price to match what we think is “perfect”.

 

[Xulonn]

...extended dynamics lower in the bass region with better articulation, no veil...

Aha, that explains everything...

 

[Xulonn]

In my experience and from what I’ve seen in the “audiophile world” is we at times cross paths with an item that rebels against our perception of what is good vs bad. That there’s no way this thing sounds this good at this price. So we justify why we think it isn’t “good“ , even though it sounds “good”. So we skip over to the more expensive item that didn’t sound very good and we fall back into the pattern of searching for that “perfect” sound. In reality we want the price to match what we think is “perfect”.

I understand and appreciated your comment, but I gave up searching for perfect sound at least 40 years ago, because most audiophile components sound pretty good. Many of my posts here demonstrate for me it is not about "good vs bad", and that I have enjoyed a fairly wide spectrum of budget to low/mid priced components and systems over a period of 60 years. That includes everything from my first monaural/vinyl/6L6/bass reflex system in 1958 to McIntosh driving a custom JBL S8 system in the mid-1970s both a 2A3 SET amp driving Klipsch Forte II horns and a Bryston integrated amp driving Apogee Ribbon monitors I've had many enjoyable audio experiences with an interesting variety in various design topologies, and they all satisfied like the mix and match varities of food at a good Chinese restaurant or Japanese sushi bar. To this day, I never think about which one was "best" - they were all good and I enjoyed every single system.

For me, even though I am well aware that I might not be able to hear a difference, technical/engineering excellence and and a well-designed and attractive (a very subjective subject) case attract me to various components. I would also rather buy products small companies, many with names behind them like Benchmark, Hypex, March, Nord, Neurochrome, etc., rather than mass-produced items from faceless mega-corporations.

OTOH, there are also many names in audiophool component hypeland that are of absolutely no interest to me except to observe out of curiosity or as targets for ridicule. And speaking of my 2A3 amplifier, it was built by Attilio Caccamo of Italy's Tektron Audio Laboratory, which is located in Catania, an ancient port city on the eastern coast of Sicily at the foot of Mount Etna. How can one not like an amplifier with a story like that - especially now that they are available with beautiful olivewood cases!

So yes, it's not only about the purity of the sound...

 

[ta240]

Wow the ToneWinners is incredible! The Chinese manufacturers are not what they were. Someday Made in China may be coveted similar to Made in Japan.

It is funny how the desired country of origin changes on products.

That said I can't believe that these companies can't find someone outside of China to help with their names and descriptions. Tone and winner are both good words but together they don't sound like quality. And "high fever for playing LP's Friends" is a bit of an odd description line. I see fever a lot in descriptions from Chinese companies and I'm not sure what they are shooting for in the translation. But it seems like it would be so easy to connect with some people to run these names and descriptions past.

 

[NTK]

...
And "high fever for playing LP's Friends" is a bit of an odd description line. I see fever a lot in descriptions from Chinese companies and I'm not sure what they are shooting for in the translation. ...

In Chinese, 发烧 means fever, 友 means friend, and 发烧友 means audiophile.

 

[wje]

OK on SINAD, but not enough power for me.

My intent on buying the IOTAVX was never to use the internal amplifier, but to use the device as a preamplifier only. However, in the process of buying the IOTAVX and the waiting the the review, I stumbled upon an Emotiva XSP-1 to use for my preamplifier instead. I'll most likely use the IOTAVX in a 2nd bedroom system at some point in the future.

 

[Deleted member 15871]

Wow the ToneWinners is incredible! The Chinese manufacturers are not what they were. Someday Made in China may be coveted similar to Made in Japan.

Anyway, Thanks to Amir's review (thank you Amir) I was able to close the door on the Iota. In no way do I mean that it is not a great option but for my criteria, the downsides outweighs the benefits. I was really enticed by the set of features and all the reviews but ultimately I really do not care about a built in DAC if I would need to upgrade right out of the box, It's surprising a built-in DAC would start out not so good. Plus, although Amir did not test out the phono pre, I've already read reviews that the phono pre amp was so-so and you will eventually get a stand-alone. So two items will be circumvented.

So what attracted me to the Iota was the You Tube listening reviews describing its neutral presentation and sound; almost 70's vintage sound. So what was my other option? An actual vintage 70s pre and amp setup!

Yesterday, I went ahead and initiated a purchase of a Nikko Alpha II and Beta 20, both totally restored, recapped etc last November by Austin Stereo in Austin TX. Nice people to deal with on the phone and they will be there for me if I ever encounter tech problems.

Is that Tibor?

 

[Rifmon]

Tibor?

 

[Rifmon]

My intent on buying the IOTAVX was never to use the internal amplifier, but to use the device as a preamplifier only. However, in the process of buying the IOTAVX and the waiting the the review, I stumbled upon an Emotiva XSP-1 to use for my preamplifier instead. I'll most likely use the IOTAVX in a 2nd bedroom system at some point in the future.

I bet it’ll really shine in that setting.

 

[Deleted member 15871]

Tibor?

I guess not.

 

[gfx_1]

My intent on buying the IOTAVX was never to use the internal amplifier, but to use the device as a preamplifier only.

Despite the not to brilliant measurements, I think you should give the complete amp a try. I still enjoy mine.

 

[Rifmon]

There is a 34th review on the Iota site.... all positive. I bought a totally recapped Nikko II and Nikko Beta 20. Professionally restored. They are in their shipping boxes still. I intend to hook them up. If I don't like them, I'll sell them... Ironically and illogically, I bought this with no subjective and no bench tests. Curiosity drove me plus the price point. They have a new lease on life with the recaps.

 

[Xulonn]

There is a 34th review on the Iota site.... all positive.

Of course they are all positive - reviews at a manufacturer or dealer side normally require "approval" before posting. One of the best things about ASR is that all reviews are published - good or bad, and the bad ones reveal anything from bad design to chance quality problems and random issues - just like random problems can affect the units that we buy - new or used - for our listening rooms.

The most important thing about negative ASR reviews is how the manufacturer or dealer reacts to problems and issues that might be revealed. Those who address the problem properly and fix things are very likely to enhance their reputation and improve their sales. This is especially important to small companies, but the mega-corporations probably don't even know that ASR exists and wouldn't care if they were aware of us.

And speaking of owner reviews, I really like my new IOTAVX 4K 7.1 AVP - it's everything I hoped it would be, and a perfect match for Kodi on an HTPC as an HDMI audio and video source. It sounds good with no audible noise or distortion, and no problems have popped up. Today I will try the DSP with the built-in IOTAVX and supplied calibration mic, because there is no way I can manually set levels properly for three channels with a high-end vintage Class AB amp driving the L/R speakers, and a cheap ChiFi Class-D amp driving the center. (In a few weeks - after the ICEpower mudules are again available from the U.S., all three channels will be driven by three channels of identical Ghent/ICEpower 200ASC amplificaiton.)

After I explore all of the options I'm interested in, I will write a review for here at ASR and another at the IOTAVX website - with a subtle mention of ASR. And I have no doubt that Ian will approve his version.

 

[wje]

Despite the not to brilliant measurements, I think you should give the complete amp a try. I still enjoy mine.

I couldn't successfully implement the SA3/PA3 combination. I have a MiniDSP in my set up for integrating my subwoofers. The SA3/PA3 wouldn't successfully allow for this configuration to work.

 

[Tks]

The most important thing about negative ASR reviews is how the manufacturer or dealer reacts to problems and issues that might be revealed. Those who address the problem properly and fix things are very likely to enhance their reputation and improve their sales. This is especially important to small companies, but the mega-corporations probably don't even know that ASR exists and wouldn't care if they were aware of us.

SMSL, Topping, E1DA, Geshelli, SONCOZ, and most notably (because they got the most flack from us, basically ad-hom levels of flack for their products in the past) Schiit Audio.

To me personally Schiit has exemplified the best case scenario I've ever seen in how an audio company reacts to detractors, and objectivity-focused reviews.

They not only showed extreme good faith, and reached out, but also decided to build products to demonstrate they can put their money where their mouth is when talking big about their products.

Worst case scanerio I've seen in recent memory is that Devialet company. Those guys just tried to sweep everything under the rug after repairing a unit that couldn't even handle being tested. Right after that comes Emotiva I think it was, where the people running the show tried to cast doubt over the testing here with infantile and idiotic comparisons on how reviews here are flawed. (Except they forgot their firmware flaws have nothing to do with measurements, not that the measurements were anything good to begin with, even if you had large margins of error in your calculations). Thinking about it now, I can't tell who's worse. Cowards, or people with "courage" (only on their own forums they control) that speak up and defend their designs, but completely fail.

 

[wje]

I received the IOTAVX SA3 back from Amir yesterday. I should have told him to go ahead and take off the plastic, protective coating on the front surfaces for the review. I was able to get it connected today - swapped out the Emotiva XSP-1, for the time being. Impressions in pre-amp only mode? Well, I'm pretty impressed actually. Lots of life when paired with the Crown XLS1502 amplifier.

In the other thread on the unit, a member had suggested that I proceed with pairing it with the PA3 power amplifier. Since I'm using the MiniDSP HD for the integration process for my subwoofers, it is a no go for me to get the PA3 at this time.

 

[maty]

Impressions in pre-amp only mode? Well, I'm pretty impressed actually. Lots of life when paired with the Crown XLS1500 amplifier...

Interesting.

(DAC with "preamp" vs DAC + IOTAVX SA3) and poweramp better than Crown XLS1500.


An example of DAC the new:

Soncoz LA-QXD1 Balanced DAC Review
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/soncoz-la-qxd1-balanced-dac-review.13459/

Ouch, IOTAVX SA3 only has unbalanced inputs (RCA).

If I am not wrong, there are not measurements of IOTA as preamp (without internal DAC)