New Magico M7 speakers

[thewas]

I don't see why it would not go there except they're lying to our faces.

See the great post of ctrl above yours, as said its all a big mess...

 

[Sokel]

See the great post of ctrl above yours, as said its all a big mess...

II saw the post and it just confirmed the ability to reach the 110db SPL needed for tweeter peaks so the whole speaker can go to the 120db mark (peaks) with music.Cause that's about where those speakers are about to be.
That's what I'm talking about,how they get away with a nice tweeter in a high SPL speaker.

 

[thewas]

II saw the post and it just confirmed the ability to reach the 110db SPL needed for tweeter peaks so the whole speaker can go to the 120db mark (peaks) with music.Cause that's about where those speakers are about to be.
That's what I'm talking about,how they get away with a nice tweeter in a high SPL speaker.

110 dB peaks are not a really an issue so no "magic(o)" needed there.

 

[Pearljam5000]

How much difference does it make that it's a diamond coated beryllium tweeter and not a standard aluminum or titanium one ?

 

[Blockader]

And this is spectral content of different types of music.

The spectral content of actual music aligns closely with KH 420's max SPL vs frequency graph. Typically, music shows 30-40 dB higher SPL in the bass frequencies and 20-30 dB higher in the midrange compared to the treble. This pattern more or less mirrors the max SPL versus frequency characteristics of these speakers.

For instance, if you pair the KH 420 speakers with large subwoofers capable of delivering 120 dB around 30-40 Hz, you can achieve a system that is capable of 120-130 dB, despite the tweeter's dramatic roll-off in maximum SPL above 10 kHz.

The reason why I joined this conversation was that I wanted like to clarify any confusion regarding the CTA 2034 standard and its representation of maximum SPL. It's important to understand that the max SPL according to CTA 2034 does not represent the maximum SPL that speakers can maintain across the entire frequency range with continuous signals. This standard provides specific insights but should not be interpreted as a measure of continuous performance across all frequencies. Dome tweeters can't reach to 100-106db in fair conditions using continuous sine waves, however to become a 120-130db capable speaker the real bottleneck is the bass max SPL, not the treble max SPL usually. I hope it's clear now.

 

[Blockader]

How much difference does it make that it's a diamond coated beryllium tweeter and not a standard aluminum or titanium one ?View attachment 364844

Beryllium: Potentially higher breakup frequency, the frequency where the driver loses its pistonic movement(linear behavior) can be potentially very high.
Diamond coated beryllium: That breakup frequency can be even higher than normal beryllium.

Does it matter? No. Purifi's aluminum tweeter has high enough breakup frequency and state of the art directivity control and linearity.

For those who are not very good at engineering, making a well behaving tweeter with beryllium can be easier. Diamond coated beryllium can make it even easier.

Tweeters constructed from extremely stiff materials like diamond and beryllium may only offer measurable improvements over those made from aluminum or titanium when playing music at very high frequency sampling rates. For example, a diamond tweeter could potentially achieve a higher breakup frequency. This can reduce the likelihood that distortion caused by content above 20 kHz folds back into the audible range through intermodulation distortion.(I will call it IMD) However, the practical benefits of this are debatable. Simple notch filters can solve IMD issues in aluminum or titanium drivers, and the levels of IMD involved are usually far beyond what is audible. Moreover, there is little justification for using a 96 kHz sampling rate or higher in terms of audible improvements.

 

[Sokel]

And this is spectral content of different types of music.

The spectral content of actual music aligns closely with KH 420's max SPL vs frequency graph. Typically, music shows 30-40 dB higher SPL in the bass frequencies and 20-30 dB higher in the midrange compared to the treble. This pattern more or less mirrors the max SPL versus frequency characteristics of these speakers.

For instance, if you pair the KH 420 speakers with large subwoofers capable of delivering 120 dB around 30-40 Hz, you can achieve a system that is capable of 120-130 dB, despite the tweeter's dramatic roll-off in maximum SPL above 10 kHz.

The reason why I joined this conversation was that I wanted like to clarify any confusion regarding the CTA 2034 standard and its representation of maximum SPL. It's important to understand that the max SPL according to CTA 2034 does not represent the maximum SPL that speakers can maintain across the entire frequency range with continuous signals. This standard provides specific insights but should not be interpreted as a measure of continuous performance across all frequencies. Dome tweeters can't reach to 100-106db in fair conditions using continuous sine waves, however to become a 120-130db capable speaker the real bottleneck is the bass max SPL, not the treble max SPL usually. I hope it's clear now.

Thanks for that,is exactly what I said about the Magicos.
It's not unusual to reach their stated with such a tweeter at the time they have all this woofer ability,that's all the conversation was about.

 

[Ze Frog]

Very nice looking speakers, still even if I won the Euro millions I don't think I could justify the outlay required. I'd be extremely embarrassed walking in somewhere and handing over that kind of cash for a speaker or explaining to a guest when they eventually ask.

 

[juliangst]

Are there any disadvantages of using a compression driver with a waveguide instead of a normal dome tweeter?

With cost no object speakers like the magico I would want them to have no limitation whatsoever. Even though the treble is a lot lower in level than the bass and mids with all music, it would still be nice to have low distortion at high SPL (and less stress on the tweeter's voice coil).

 

[Ze Frog]

Are there any disadvantages of using a compression driver with a waveguide instead of a normal dome tweeter?

With cost no object speakers like the magico I would want them to have no limitation whatsoever. Even though the treble is a lot lower in level than the bass and mids with all music, it would still be nice to have low distortion at high SPL (and less stress on the tweeter's voice coil).

Main advantage it usually it's potential output and in some cases and advantage with transients.Also the waveguide can afford more control over dispersion characteristics, but that is true whatever tweeter type using a waveguide. Personally something this expensive I would be wanting something more exotic if for no other than at that kind of money I would be expecting something that just isn't found on a $1000 pair of bookshelves.

 

[Pearljam5000]

If I had that kind of $$$
I'd get the the Vivid Audio Moya M1 over the M7
They just look much cooler

 

[Sal1950]

Very nice looking speakers, still even if I won the Euro millions I don't think I could justify the outlay required. I'd be extremely embarrassed walking in somewhere and handing over that kind of cash for a speaker or explaining to a guest when they eventually ask.

Why? Would you be embarrassed to buy/drive your new Ferrari too?
If I hit that lotto, I'd get it all.

If I had that kind of $$$
I'd get the the Vivid Audio Moya M1 over the M7
They just look much cooler

Humm, beauties in the eye and all that.
I will say the new Moya's are a lot less completely fugly than the Giva models.
I'd break both arms & legs of anyone who even tried to carry them in my house. ROTF----

 

[Ze Frog]

Why? Would you be embarrassed to buy/drive your new Ferrari too?
If I hit that lotto, I'd get it all.


Humm, beauties in the eye and all that.
I will say the new Moya's are a lot less completely fugly than the Giva models.
I'd break both arms & legs of anyone who even tried to carry them in my house. ROTF----

Yeah, not sure why. I'm not really a Ferrari guy either and wouldn't own one if I could afford. I don't really get the flashy 'look at me' thing, same reason I find social media really oddball and will probably die a lonely old man because I hate the modern Instagram begging for attention types of women, lol. I'm just an oddball, always hated the idea of standing out, being famous or in the public eye, lol, I'm more an old fashioned recluse that's happy with relatively minimal things be that friends, material items etc etc. I see why people do such things, just something I would find repulsive doing myself and I'd feel extremely awkward.

 

[pablolie]

Anyone that wants to sell me one (or two) 100k sub to go with my 400k full range speakers better be prepared for my laughter in response. It seems an admission you are wasting money on full range speakers because they are impossible to integrate into real world rooms and need a sub as much as a cheaper bookshelf.

 

[Axo1989]

Anyone that wants to sell me one (or two) 100k sub to go with my 400k full range speakers better be prepared for my laughter in response. It seems an admission you are wasting money on full range speakers because they are impossible to integrate into real world rooms and need a sub as much as a cheaper bookshelf.

Fair enough I guess. Mr Magico's explanation for deployment of said subs was accurate however. While I'd have to have a lot more money to spare (and spend on more important things and causes) than a mere half million of so, were that unlikely possibility to eventuate, I'd bundle the subs with my order without demurring.

 

[Jmsent]

Is the above Ellipticor's chart wrong?
I thought of audioexpress as honest in general.

From what I can see in the text, it look like that measurement was taken with the mic at 10cm distance from the tweeter diaphragm

 

[Jmsent]

How much difference does it make that it's a diamond coated beryllium tweeter and not a standard aluminum or titanium one ?View attachment 364844

When I worked at SEAS, we sent some of our metal dome tweeters to the company that provided the vapor deposition diamond coating. When we measured them against the standard metal dome, we saw absolutely no difference in performance. I suppose it's possible that Magico is using a different process, but it's hard to see how vapor depositing a tiny coating of diamond to a beryllium dome is going to make any kind of audible difference. John Dunlavy and others before him used to call this kind of stuff "floobydust".

 

[Jmsent]

Beryllium: Potentially higher breakup frequency, the frequency where the driver loses its pistonic movement(linear behavior) can be potentially very high.
Diamond coated beryllium: That breakup frequency can be even higher than normal beryllium.

Does it matter? No. Purifi's aluminum tweeter has high enough breakup frequency and state of the art directivity control and linearity.

For those who are not very good at engineering, making a well behaving tweeter with beryllium can be easier. Diamond coated beryllium can make it even easier.

Tweeters constructed from extremely stiff materials like diamond and beryllium may only offer measurable improvements over those made from aluminum or titanium when playing music at very high frequency sampling rates. For example, a diamond tweeter could potentially achieve a higher breakup frequency. This can reduce the likelihood that distortion caused by content above 20 kHz folds back into the audible range through intermodulation distortion.(I will call it IMD) However, the practical benefits of this are debatable. Simple notch filters can solve IMD issues in aluminum or titanium drivers, and the levels of IMD involved are usually far beyond what is audible. Moreover, there is little justification for using a 96 kHz sampling rate or higher in terms of audible improvements.

In speaking with the folks at both SEAS and ScanSpeak at Axpona last week, it looks like the era of beryllium dome tweeters may be coming to a screeching halt. Materion, the company that supplies the dome for these tweeters has now raised the price of a single diaphragm by a very substantial amount, and they have also stopped supplying the material in the thickness that was originally being used. https://www.scan-speak.dk/scan-speak-newsletter-aug23-alert/

 

[Sal1950]

I don't really get the flashy 'look at me' thing, same reason I find social media really oddball and will probably die a lonely old man because I hate the modern Instagram begging for attention types of women, lol. I'm just an oddball,

Humm, you afraid of gettin laid too?
They got this blue-ointment stuff to protect from the bugs now also. LOL

Yeah, not sure why. I'm not really a Ferrari guy either and wouldn't own one if I could afford. I don't really get the flashy 'look at me' thing,

A good analogy, these Magico speakers and a Ferrari auto, at their root aren't about being a "flashy 'look at me' thing".
They are about performing a task at the extreme levels of performance. The fact that they end up being extremely expensive or having a certain physical look is besides the point.
Now if you were to talk about wearing a high end Rolex watch or huge flashy diamond ring, I'd agree with you.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1648992288826183680

 

[Ze Frog]

Humm, you afraid of gettin laid too?
They got this blue-ointment stuff to protect from the bugs now also. LOL


A good analogy, these Magico speakers and a Ferrari auto, at their root aren't about being a "flashy 'look at me' thing".
They are about performing a task at the extreme levels of performance. The fact that they end up being extremely expensive or having a certain physical look is besides the point.
Now if you were to talk about wearing a high end Rolex watch or huge flashy diamond ring, I'd agree with you.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1648992288826183680

Yeah, nothing wrong with any of that, it's just who I am I guess. I think rather oddly though, maybe it's from my beginnings in this world. I just couldn't fathom spending hundreds of thousands of even tens of thousands on Hi-Fi, plus to be honest it's that scenario of would it benefit these tired old ears. I'm the kind of person I need to know that what I'm paying for is as described and genuinely going to be a marked improvement as I go up in cash or time investment. Plus I've always been drawn towards the underdog, the less is more sort of philosophy as well. I don't really understand brand cache or fashion either. Another part of it is likely my neuro divergent side due to Autism and Asperger's which kind of makes me see things a bit differently compared to a 'normal' type person I guess. My life view is very set in stone and driven in a way money and wealth really wouldn't change me much. I do the Euro millions occasionally but always hope I'd just win the £1 million raffle part of which 80% would likely go into kids savings accounts for when they are older. Lol, I'd be fearful of winning £100 million and so it's something I do rarely and when the jackpot is smaller. That's a weird thing I know, I mean most people would love untold wealth, but I'd hate the responsibility and to be honest it would just be numbers in my account. Don't get me wrong, I'd do a few things and buy a few things, like maybe I'd go crazy and buy a pair of Genelec the ones, and maybe treat myself to a new car, lol, which would believe it or not be a Suzuki Jimmy, bloody love those things. After that and a few smaller bits I'd have no use for vast quantities of cash. There are probably others the same, albeit we are likely a rather fringe group.