Genelec S360 Review (Studio Monitor)

[thewas]

The 1237 would give you enjoyment that is far beyond the 8631.

Please don't do that to PJ5k, breaking his bubble that the perfect loudspeaker exists, this way he will never buy one.

Seriously now that you find them more euphonic can be even seen in the sound power of both, the 8361 has a slight bump in the presence region

while the 1237 rather a dent, such makes loudspeakers more euphonic like you say.

I know definitely which one of from those two I would choose for music enjoyment.

 

[HairyEars]

Euphonic = less detailed , less instrument separation?
Or something else ?

None of above. Euphonic means 'pleasing to the ear.'
From Greek euphōnia, ‘well sounding.’

 

[bodhi]

But hey, test for yourself. If you reach the same conclusion, perhaps you can be the bright brain to discover the missing sound signature measure that will finally solve that puzzle.

There is no puzzle. You feel certain way for some reason or another and that's it. Why would anyone be interested in deciphering why some random person thinks A is better than B?

Nothing wrong with feeling that way, unless you add things like "The 1237 would give you enjoyment that is far beyond the 8631."

 

[sharock]

I thought it was long agreed the metallic sound was due to aluminium cabinets?

 

[HairyEars]

There is no puzzle. You feel certain way for some reason or another and that's it. Why would anyone be interested in deciphering why some random person thinks A is better than B?

Nothing wrong with feeling that way, unless you add things like "The 1237 would give you enjoyment that is far beyond the 8631."

A classic case of a person who's absolutely certain 2 simple graphs describe a speaker to its finest timbre.
Ignorance is a bliss.

"Why would anyone be interested in deciphering why some random person thinks A is better than B?"
If you're not interested, don't reply -- as simple as that.

"The 1237 would give you enjoyment that is far beyond the 8631."
Since I've experienced both monitors in the same room, I'm entailed to that opinion.
Have you?

 

[Blockader]

How's the 8361 midrange vs the KH420?
Is there a big difference a big difference too regarding the soundstage ? Thanks

The midrange of the 8361 is more forward compared to the KH 420 in the same room setup.

Regarding soundstage, it's largely influenced by the room's dimensions, the acoustic treatment of the walls, and the speakers' directivity. Both speakers we're discussing have nearly perfect directivity, so the acoustic treatment in my room plays a major role in shaping the soundstage.

So, it's worth mentioning how my room is treated. The front wall is lined with 20cm thick absorbers, and the ceiling's first reflection points have similar 20cm thick large bass traps. However, there's no treatment for side wall reflections and I do not plan to. I'm planning to add 2D diffusers for the rear wall reflections this summer.

Removing the front wall absorbers collapses the soundstage, causing sounds to lose their distinct spatial positioning. Taking out the ceiling absorbers significantly reduces clarity and sense of depth. These observations apply to both the Genelecs and Neumanns.

With all the absorptive treatments in place, both speakers have excellent layering and precise imaging((good in delivering a sense of precision) for farfield listening. It's doubtful I could distinguish between the two in a blind test. While listneing nearfield, the Genelecs might have slightly better on-axis imaging and a more compact on-axis soundstage. My wife helped me with a quick blind test, but it wasn’t conclusive since she lost interest pretty quickly.

I listen to electronic music mostly however for classical music or ambient music, subjectively speaking, lack of room treatment makes them sound a bit more dreamy and immersive. And if you are into such music, I would recommend spekaers like Ascend Acoustics 2EX instead of Genelecs.

 

[Blockader]

A classic case of a person who's absolutely certain 2 simple graphs describe a speaker to its finest timbre.
Ignorance is a bliss.

"Why would anyone be interested in deciphering why some random person thinks A is better than B?"
If you're not interested, don't reply -- as simple as that.

"The 1237 would give you enjoyment that is far beyond the 8631."
Since I've experienced both monitors in the same room, I'm entailed to that opinion.
Have you?

It is possible to explain everything with simple graphs. That's a big part of the science.

Flush mounting 1237s can really make them shine. I've personally experienced how a flush-mounted 1236 delivers incredibly clean and impactful bass, probably rivaling that of SBA/DBA setups. This cleaner bass tends to mask the midrange less compared to traditional, non-flush-mounted speakers.

But if 1237s are not flush mounted, I listened to them and they sound very similar to KH 420 but in a more wacky way.

 

[dagfinn]

How can the older design of the 1237 sound better than a newer design like the Ones that also measures better ?(I assume )

Some designs become timeless, when done properly you can't improve them much. The DCW is well tested over time, and works really well. DCW vs coaxial can be a matter of preference, and hearing both together the way to compare them. The W371 has a 15", so has 1238a . Have to agree with @HairyEars, a graph doesn't tell the whole story, it's just a starting point. There's no single graph describing point source, coaxial imaging qualities - yet. For imaging - coaxial is best, for musical pleasure other designs offer delights too . I've had a few "aha"-moments since rigging to realtime AB(CD) switching and listening to some well known speakers next to each other. The differences are much bigger than I expected, my sonic memory is way worse than I tought.

 

[bodhi]

A classic case of a person who's absolutely certain 2 simple graphs describe a speaker to its finest timbre.
Ignorance is a bliss.

No, I'm not certain of anything. But if we go with the idea that measurements can fail this clearly then why are we even here?

Then again we have you, who are convinced that your personal opinion is better descriptor of the speakers than the measurements. A true classic.

"Why would anyone be interested in deciphering why some random person thinks A is better than B?"
If you're not interested, don't reply -- as simple as that.

Oh, you misunderstood. What I'm not interested in are your preferences in context of comparing these two speakers. I'm interested in claims that include A is better than B event though B measures better, due to some unidentified factors.

You see, you didn't only say that you preferred A. You claimed that somebody else would find A "far better" because you think so.

Since I've experienced both monitors in the same room, I'm entailed to that opinion.
Have you?

Not in the same room, no, but separately. From what I remember, I don't think I could have a clear preference between them. Why are you bringing this up constantly, what does it even matter? Do we also need to compare hearing tests and Harman How to Listen scores?

 

[HairyEars]

Removing the front wall absorbers collapses the soundstage, causing sounds to lose their distinct spatial positioning. Taking out the ceiling absorbers significantly reduces clarity and sense of depth. These observations apply to both the Genelecs and Neumanns.

Excellent. Acoustic treatment is the way to go.
Once you've treated the back wall, the absorbers on the front wall will be less crucial, as they now deal with the secondary reflections from the back wall.
At that point, bass traps along that wall will be more important.

Regarding auditioning the freestanding 1237, was that in a well-treated room?

 

[HairyEars]

No, I'm not certain of anything. But if we go with the idea that measurements can fail this clearly then why are we even here?

Then again we have you, who are convinced that your personal opinion is better descriptor of the speakers than the measurements. A true classic.



Oh, you misunderstood. What I'm not interested in are your preferences in context of comparing these two speakers. I'm interested in claims that include A is better than B event though B measures better, due to some unidentified factors.

You see, you didn't only say that you preferred A. You claimed that somebody else would find A "far better" because you think so.



Not in the same room, no, but separately. From what I remember, I don't think I could have a clear preference between them. Why are you bringing this up constantly, what does it even matter? Do we also need to compare hearing tests and Harman How to Listen scores?

Too much to go over, and I don't think it will penetrate.
Feel free to ignore my comments, because that's exactly what I'm going to do with yours.

 

[dasdoing]

I actually own both

probably not at the same place/distance though, right?

 

[YSC]

Excellent. Acoustic treatment is the way to go.
Once you've treated the back wall, the absorbers on the front wall will be less crucial, as they now deal with the secondary reflections from the back wall.
At that point, bass traps along that wall will be more important.

Regarding auditioning the freestanding 1237, was that in a well-treated room?

actually you've been missing a rather important point: The Ones are co-axial and the KH420 or the 3 way Genelec Mains arn't. although all these have basically perfect horizontal directivity, they have different beam width and except co-axial, having vertical directivity mismatch, so in a real room with vertical reflective surfaces it could shape the FR quite a bit, I don't bother find exact graphs here but IIRC the ones estimated in room response generally shows a much lower downward slope compared to other speakers, which in turn could create a overall brighter/metallic feel to one's ear, especially when one didn't burn in the brain for the sound, it would have less bass/mid presence/weight and more highs. though I am only using the low end 2 way 8030C, IMO the ones excels in that the directivity is essentially perfect, so it will be easy to dial in with a gentle slight on axis downward sloping profile and see if that's where the metallic feel comes from.

 

[Pearljam5000]

A great minimalist system

 

[HairyEars]

actually you've been missing a rather important point: The Ones are co-axial and the KH420 or the 3 way Genelec Mains arn't. although all these have basically perfect horizontal directivity, they have different beam width and except co-axial, having vertical directivity mismatch, so in a real room with vertical reflective surfaces it could shape the FR quite a bit, I don't bother find exact graphs here but IIRC the ones estimated in room response generally shows a much lower downward slope compared to other speakers, which in turn could create a overall brighter/metallic feel to one's ear, especially when one didn't burn in the brain for the sound, it would have less bass/mid presence/weight and more highs. though I am only using the low end 2 way 8030C, IMO the ones excels in that the directivity is essentially perfect, so it will be easy to dial in with a gentle slight on axis downward sloping profile and see if that's where the metallic feel comes from.

Again, room-treatment is the solution--if one wants to get a good sound.
It's not science, merely my empirical findings, but the Genelec mains are better sounding than the coax in a well treated room. Not so when the room is untreated.

 

[Curvature]

View attachment 364154
A great minimalist system

Where did you get the picture?

 

[HiMu]

Where did you get the picture?

Genelec brings music and movies to life for Norwegian audiophile - Genelec.com

Genelec enthusiast chooses custom solution for home TV setup.

www.genelec.com

 

[LTig]

Genelec brings music and movies to life for Norwegian audiophile - Genelec.com

Genelec enthusiast chooses custom solution for home TV setup.

www.genelec.com

In a 15 sqm room? This is insane.

 

[Pearljam5000]

In a 15 sqm room? This is insane.

Why?

 

[YSC]

Again, room-treatment is the solution--if one wants to get a good sound.
It's not science, merely my empirical findings, but the Genelec mains are better sounding than the coax in a well treated room. Not so when the room is untreated.

also, again room treatment didn't eliminate reflections, it makes it more controlled, not anechoic chamber, so the predicted in room response is still relevant (or more relevant as it is the PIR of a somewhat treated room, not a room full of high reflection surfaces), so the vertical dispersion do also affect the in room sound.

As such, the lower sloping down of the Ones could still be the factor of it sounding to have less body or harsher due to the less tamed highs, you won't know if you just plug and play and not even experimenting of say, tuning in the Ones with a mild roll off curve and see if that actually fixes the issues compared to the mains multiway speakers