Has civility on ASR declined recently?

[LightninBoy]

I haven't noticed civility declining. But I've never minded on-topic conversations with strong opinions being expressed as long as the focus is on the ideas not the person. That's the best way to learn.

That said, this forum could use an injection of empathy, diplomacy, and patience when engaging with new posters with a subjective background and mindset. But that's not new, its been the case since I've joined a few years ago and I think we've gotten slightly better.

 

[AdamG]

It’s been quite of late. However, when Amir gives a headless panther to some incredibly expensive piece of kit. We get flooded with new members here only to Troll, and create as much disorder and turmoil as they can till they run out of rope. But, as @BDWoody said above, the Senior Members do a great job of self-policing threads. There is little doubt that Brad and I could keep up without the strong and committed Membership core we are lucky to have. The Maturity level here is far far above that in any other Forum I have experienced.

Trolls don’t last long here. Period!

 

[_thelaughingman]

I haven't noticed civility declining. But I've never minded on-topic conversations with strong opinions being expressed as long as the focus is on the ideas not the person. That's the best way to learn.

That said, this forum could use an injection of empathy, diplomacy, and patience when engaging with new posters with a subjective background and mindset. But that's not new, its been the case since I've joined a few years ago and I think we've gotten slightly better.

Sad but true, something we all lack at times is the ability to empathize and engage in a meaningful way without condescension.

 

[_thelaughingman]

It’s been quite of late. However, when Amir gives a headless panther to some incredibly expensive piece of kit. We get flooded with new members here only to Troll, and create as much disorder and turmoil as they can till they run out of rope. But, as @BDWoody said above, the Senior Members do a great job of self-policing threads. There is little doubt that Brad and I could keep up without the strong and committed Membership core we are lucky to have here. The Maturity level here is far far above that in any other Forum I have experienced.

Trolls don’t last long here. Period!

We don't let trolls fester like sores here. "No No. you no welcome to bring your baseless vitriol here".

 

[Phorize]

It's worse lately. The EV thread isn't helping any.

I’ve studiously avoided that thread, just because it started with an earnest plea for ‘no politics’ and we all know what happens after that.

 

[tmtomh]

To echo what I think is the emerging consensus in the thread so far, I have noticed an increase over the past year in new members who seem to have no idea what this place is about (or as noted above intentionally don't care and think they can "convert" or out-argue us). So the number of unpleasant encounters between folks with that attitude/agenda and the existing membership has increased, at least in my perception.

But the overall tenor of the forums has not changed in my perception. It's always been somewhat prickly but IMHO more civil (and rational) than most audio/audiophile forums.

 

[JaccoW]

I’ve studiously avoided that thread, just because it started with an earnest plea for ‘no politics’ and we all know what happens after that.

Same here. I like keeping up to date on the latest tech in that field but I know a thread that can go to 25 pages in less than a week is not simply a list of facts and everybody agreeing.

 

[Ron Texas]

I’ve studiously avoided that thread, just because it started with an earnest plea for ‘no politics’ and we all know what happens after that.

I should have run the other way.

 

[Raindog123]

And a few things I find unquestionably silly, like letting us members quality-vote products we have no experience with, that actually devalues the forum and it's intentions.

I interpret it as @amirm ’s way to self-calibrate. As in “Am I too harsh or too soft..?” “How would _you_ judge this device, based on the numbers in front of you?” Even if as a temporary feature.

 

[Doodski]

I should have run the other way.

I thought you did well. Clean sentences and to the point. You always have good info as far as I'm concerned. It (EV thread) does seem to have taken a turn. I requested some moderation accordingly from a moderator.

 

[Doodski]

members quality-vote products we have no experience with

I find that a bit off too.

 

[Timcognito]

All this said, digital devices not only about SINAD and THD only. That's just what Amir wanted to make the site about, measuring. But remembering the Node post the DAC measured mediocre and BluOS UI, mile wide and deep features, lifetime curatorship and varied connectivity were ignored. But those features exist and are the reason that a lot of people like it, much to the ire of so called "objectivist" posters. The Ob/Sub-ob thing is bound to cause tension. I'll say Amir was very firm and civil in holding his ground.

To me it's like having a site about phones where all you measure is how clear and strong your signal is and not the screen, camera, navigation, internet, texting, DAC, connectability, battery life.... it's not 1980 anymore. Some of those analogous things can be measured (but are rigorously ignored) and some are features with preferences of relative importance to the user. Having a rule to measure first should not curtail discussion of all aspects of the device.

Most here are serious, civil and passionate about topics and some even apologise for any mistakes it their posting. There are bound to be a few bad asses causing stink. I for one am totally enjoying myself and learning a lot, being an ME and having been the hobby since I was 17.

 

[Timcognito]

We should vow to be like Canada and Denmark

 

[Robin L]

I've been here a little over two years. There's always a subjectivist showing up here who is deep into audiophoolery. I once was, I later realized that much of the snake oil I was drinking actually got in the way of listening to music. What I lack in technical knowledge [this Forum is blessed with many folk who know what they are talking about on a deep level] I make up for in both long-term experience and the knowledge that I just might be wrong. People with neither technical knowledge or experience show up here all the time, regurgitating subjective responses to sound that are disconnected from reality. So there is a fair amount of debunking going on here constantly. When a poster constantly returns with subjective impressions that are not backed up by actual data, elbows can get sharp.

Something I like here is that one can express an audio heresy while acknowledging that the data won't back them up, but are sufficiently eloquent and restrained to allow that someone else's reaction is also valid. Face it---we do in fact hear things differently, seek different things out of audio reproduction, not to mention all the folks here who have been in pro audio for decades, know the ropes, know what happens to a recording from inception to its final death from brickwalling. I had to be pulled very hard, over a long time, away from such things as High-End wire, or A/C filtering, or concern about resolution of Digital Formats, or "the inherent superiority of analog" anything.

I used to seek "the Absolute Sound". I now realize that you can't get there from here.

 

[Thunder22]

ASR is very civil. I've only been taking part for less than a year, so a small sample size. Wealth of knowledge, great teachers, patience, is what I think when I think of ASR and it's contributors. I am happy to be a part of it and excited to keep learning.

 

[Ron Texas]

I thought you did well. Clean sentences and to the point. You always have good info as far as I'm concerned. It (EV thread) does seem to have taken a turn. I requested some moderation accordingly from a moderator.

Thank you greatly. I should probably stay away from this kind of stuff because people get emotional

 

[LightninBoy]

All this said, digital devices not only about SINAD and THD only. That's just what Amir wanted to make the site about, measuring. But remembering the Node post the DAC measured mediocre and BluOS UI, mile wide and deep features, lifetime curatorship and varied connectivity were ignored. But those features exist and are the reason that a lot of people like it, much to the ire of so called "objectivist" posters. The Ob/Sub-ob thing is bound to cause tension. I'll say Amir was very firm and civil in holding his ground.

That is a strawman. Objectivists do not believe measurements trump feature set. That is not the objective/subjective divide.

Also, Amir focuses on measurements because there are literally hundreds of other sources that describe features.

 

[Doodski]

Thank you greatly. I should probably stay away from this kind of stuff because people get emotional

That was getting stupid with the bickering. Nothing to get emotional about I figure. Emotional is for lovers and fighters and not rational empirical thinking peeps sitting in front of a screen. The moderator swung his, "Hammer of Thor" and took care of that stuFF toot sweet. I am a big believer of letting nature run it's course and letting people sort stuff out but that was harsh and it was disrespectful of the thread and ASR.

 

[Timcognito]

Also, Amir focuses on measurements because there are literally hundreds of other sources that describe features.

Yes that is true and basically Amir said that what he measures is important to him and significant. He is trying to get good database to help others get good sound. Not looking at something in total is a mistake IMO. If one believes that people here are generally more informed than the those other sites that are constantly trashed by many here, and to ask us to then go back to those sites seems a bit off. Certainly the experts here can weigh in other features not measured by Amir and others. Features and other unmeasured performance, their relative importance and lack thereof is important to many.

 

[pozz]

I think the one thing I'd criticize is the tendency to pile on. One person writes something, then has to reply to ten people or more in the midst of a larger discussion. Very, very hard for new members to find their bearings.

I haven't noticed any recent change in atmosphere. I tend to ignore a lot of threads, though.