Consensus on the best mid-fi Hifiman to get these days?

[Jose Hidalgo]

Try to find a second hand HD580. That'll get you 95% of a HD600 for a fraction of the cost. I think the HD580 represents the best value in headphone audio right now, IF you can find one. I picked mine up second hand for about $70.

95%? That is of course your subjective opinion, but objectively the HD 580 doesn't play in the same league as the HD 600. Need proof? Take a look at Oratory's EQ for the HD 580 : https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed6u2hu3gqg1x83/Sennheiser HD580 precision.pdf?dl=0
He needs -14.5 dB of preamp just to get the bass to decent levels. The HD 600 needs only -5.5 dB.

If the OP is ready to pay large amounts for his system (in the $800 range), we can safely assume that he cares enough about sound quality (and other criteria like build quality and comfort) to not be interested by lesser stuff. We could easily suggest other "cheaper and popular" cans like the Fidelio, really good for their price, but just like the HD 580, they don't play in the same league.

Plus honestly, I don't think it's fair to compare the plasticky thing on top with the more serious metal stuff on bottom. It's like the top one is for children and the bottom one for adults. OK, just kidding but you get my point.

 

[Vict0r]

95%? That is of course your subjective opinion, but objectively the HD 580 doesn't play in the same league as the HD 600. Need proof? Take a look at Oratory's EQ for the HD 580 : https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed6u2hu3gqg1x83/Sennheiser HD580 precision.pdf?dl=0
He needs -14.5 dB of preamp just to get the bass to decent levels. The HD 600 needs only -5.5 dB.

If the OP is ready to pay large amounts for his system (in the $800 range), we can safely assume that he cares enough about sound quality (and other criteria like build quality and comfort) to not be interested by lesser stuff. We could easily suggest other "cheaper and popular" cans like the Fidelio, really good for their price, but just like the HD 580, they don't play in the same league.

Plus honestly, I don't think it's fair to compare the plasticky thing on top with the more serious metal stuff on bottom. It's like the top one is for children and the bottom one for adults. OK, just kidding but you get my point.

I have a bunch of Sennheisers, and sometimes I ask myself why I shelled out on the HD600 when my HD580 sounds as great as it does. But you're right ofcourse, that's just my subjective opinion. I'm sure they measure differently.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Then maybe you should sell your HD 590 and your HD 600. But will you ?
I'm thinking about selling my Sundara (just thinking for the moment). Sonically it's really close and nearly as good as the HD 600, but comfort-wise I definitely prefer the Senn. So since they have pretty much the same sound, maybe the Sundara should go someday. I don't know yet.

 

[Vict0r]

Then maybe you should sell your HD 590 and your HD 600. But will you ?
I'm thinking about selling my Sundara (just thinking for the moment). Sonically it's really close and nearly as good as the HD 600, but comfort-wise I definitely prefer the Senn. So since they have pretty much the same sound, maybe the Sundara should go someday. I don't know yet.

Hahaha, the 590 is a vintage rarity that I'll never part with. I use it on my digital stage piano because it's so incredibly comfortable.

I could sell the HD600, but my HD580 is more than two decades old so I need a backup when that thing finally gives up the ghost.

 

[shaney777]

Hifiman followed up is now offering to replace the headphone free of charge. I don't know if they came across my two forum posts or what.

 

[Svperstar]

Hahaha, the 590 is a vintage rarity that I'll never part with. I use it on my digital stage piano because it's so incredibly comfortable.

View attachment 157500

I could sell the HD600, but my HD580 is more than two decades old so I need a backup when that thing finally gives up the ghost.

Love the 590, I had a pair that broke back in like 2010 and in 2019 I won an Ebay auction for another that actually came in the original box.

 

[Svperstar]

Plus honestly, I don't think it's fair to compare the plasticky thing on top with the more serious metal stuff on bottom. It's like the top one is for children and the bottom one for adults. OK, just kidding but you get my point.

Question is what condition were his 580s in? Ear cups? They were first released in 1993 and have had revisions. I have had a couple pairs and swapped drivers multiple times. The 580 and 6XX have way more in common then different. Basically the same headphone.

 

[Robbo99999]

Question is what condition were his 580s in? Ear cups? They were first released in 1993 and have had revisions. I have had a couple pairs and swapped drivers multiple times. The 580 and 6XX have way more in common then different. Basically the same headphone.

C'mon, the HD580 and HD650 (in other words HD6XX) are not even close to "basically the same headphone":

 

[Svperstar]

C'mon, the HD580 and HD650 (in other words HD6XX) are not even close to "basically the same headphone":
View attachment 160199

That is just one measurement. When swapping between the 580 and 650 the first thing you notice is how similar they are, not any differences. 85-90% the same.

 

[Robbo99999]

That is just one measurement. When swapping between the 580 and 650 the first thing you notice is how similar they are, not any differences. 85-90% the same.

What you see in that screenshot in my last post is an average of a number of units of each of the headphones. I'm quite certain that Oratory has measured many HD650 and probably more than one HD580.....for instance I think I remember him saying he's measured 11 units of HE4XX for example, something like that....so he tries to measure as many units as he can, so it's not just one measurement, besides it's a massive difference in the tonal tilt of the headphones, you can see the HD580 has way more treble & way less bass, so even if it was based on one measurement you could categorically say that these two models of headphones are not "basically the same headphone", especially with the low unit to unit variation which Sennheiser is known for (Oratory has commented that Sennheiser have low unit to unit variation, he should know, he measures them). The HD580 and the HD650 (HD6XX) are totally different headphones, it's quite obvious when you know what goes into these measurements.

 

[Svperstar]

The HD580 and the HD650 (HD6XX) are totally different headphones, it's quite obvious when you know what goes into these measurements.

I'm curious. Do you currently own the 580 and 6XX or 650 right now? If you do I recommend swapping back and forth with your favorite song or album. Then try and tell me they are "totally different". Even Sennheiser wouldn't tell you that they are.

 

[Robbo99999]

I'm curious. Do you currently own the 580 and 6XX or 650 right now? If you do I recommend swapping back and forth with your favorite song or album. Then try and tell me they are "totally different". Even Sennheiser wouldn't tell you that they are.

It doesn't matter that I don't own both headphones, I know through EQ experimentation on my own headphones that the difference between the measurements of the two headphones I showed you (HD580 & HD650) are so great in constant tonal tilt (from bass through to treble) that they would sound totally different. You don't need to own the headphones to know this. In fact it's the measurements that tell the most truth rather than subjective assessments that can be more problematical to run accurately, this is a measurement based site as a core.

 

[Vict0r]

I did say that my old HD580 sounds a lot like my old HD600. I have no idea how the HD580 compares to a HD650 or HD6XX. Maybe that's why?

 

[Svperstar]

It doesn't matter that I don't own both headphones

Yeah it really does.

If you want two headphones that sound totally different, try the Audeze LCD-2 and the Hifiman Arya. Two different companies with two completely different "house sounds". I enjoy them both and go back and forth. They aren't even remotely similar.

If you swap between the 580 and 6XX you will notice that the 6XX does have more bass and the 580 is a bit brighter but that can be EQed, they still retain the 580/600/650 signature sound that family is known for. No amount of EQ will get the LCD-2 sounding like an Arya and the idea is laughable.

The 580 and 6XX are not identical but at the end of the day they are basically the same thing.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yeah it really does.

If you want two headphones that sound totally different, try the Audeze LCD-2 and the Hifiman Arya. Two different companies with two completely different "house sounds". I enjoy them both and go back and forth. They aren't even remotely similar.

If you swap between the 580 and 6XX you will notice that the 6XX does have more bass and the 580 is a bit brighter but that can be EQed, they still retain the 580/600/650 signature sound that family is known for. No amount of EQ will get the LCD-2 sounding like an Arya and the idea is laughable.

The 580 and 6XX are not identical but at the end of the day they are basically the same thing.

I think you're crazy to say the HD580 & HD650 are basically the same headphone, I've shown you how the frequencies responses are wildly different re tonality.....I mean you can think what you want, so I can't convince you anymore. People should know they're totally different headphones, I'll post it again for the readers (not for you, we have finished our discussion):

 

[Svperstar]

I think you're crazy to say the HD580 & HD650 are basically the same headphone, I've shown you how the frequencies responses are wildly different re tonality.....I mean you can think what you want, so I can't convince you anymore. People should know they're totally different headphones, I'll post it again for the readers (not for you, we have finished our discussion):

They are so similar that even the parts are 100% interchangeable. Its amusing to me that you are trying to educate me on how the 580 and 650 sound when I have been listening to them for almost 20 years now and by your own admittance you do not even own them. I can go home right now and swap between the 580 and 6XX(both with pads replaced in the last couple years to be complete fair they should both have identical pads swapped at the same time as pads make a big difference with seal) on two different amps and EQ them all day, whereas you are just reading a graph and think that means you know how they sound.

 

[Robbo99999]

They are so similar that even the parts are 100% interchangeable. Its amusing to me that you are trying to educate me on how the 580 and 650 sound when I have been listening to them for almost 20 years now and by your own admittance you do not even own them. I can go home right now and swap between the 580 and 6XX(both with pads replaced in the last couple years to be complete fair they should both have identical pads swapped at the same time as pads make a big difference with seal) on two different amps and EQ them all day, whereas you are just reading a graph and think that means you know how they sound.

I've said I know how the tonality would be different based on EQ experiments I've done on my own headphones - the massive tonal tilt differences all the way consistently through from bass through to treble would mean they would have completely different tonality & bass level. I prefer to take measurements on matters of frequency response a lot more seriously than a random person on the internet saying that the HD580 & HD650 are "basically the same headphone" based on their own listening. But yeah, I would say your listening impressions are innacurate or that there is a defect in one of your headphones that causes them to sound similar (the latter being less likely). I will leave you now with that post no matter what you respond with, I've already said all that needs to be said re "Are HD580 & HD650 basically same headphone", lol, really.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

There's basically nothing to discuss here :

• We have two people (Robbo and me) arguing that the 580 and the 600 are quite different, and showing clear evidence for that : frequency plots (by a world-class headphone expert on top notch equipment), huge EQ preamp difference to compensate for lack of bass (first post of this page)...
• And then we have two other people (Vict0r and Svperstar) arguing the opposite, and bringing NO PROOF at all besides their own subjective impressions and personal experience. Which based on the frequency plots can only show an issue with hearing abilities, ear training, or booze (just kidding ).

Whether Vict0r, Svperstar or anybody else can hear the difference is irrelevant. Not only that difference is real, but it's a big one.

I don't claim to have great ears. Nobody should actually. So I simply trust plots, when they're made by reliable people. And so should everybody. Once again, we are on ASR here. Scientific evidence has been brought, so we shouldn't discuss this any longer.

 

[Svperstar]

rguing that the 580 and the 600 are quite different, and showing clear evidence for that : frequency plots (by a world-class headphone expert on top notch equipment), huge EQ preamp difference to compensate for lack of bass (first post of this page)...

The 580 & 600 are "so different" that if you order replacement drivers Sennheiser will send you identical drivers for either model. Also all of the replacement parts are identical besides color and in the case of the 600 having metal grilles. Identical drivers in an identical housing sitting like 1/3 of an inch from your ear....

Here is a fun thing to do. Take the grilles completely off of your Senns and tell me if you can hear anything different....

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

There's no point in discussing with you. If drivers and housing (and damping, did you forget that part ?) are identical as you say, surely plots should be almost identical. Which they aren't at all. So something's definitely wrong with your reasoning. I'll let you find out eventually.

You can say whatever you like, but it won't change the hard truth. Just know that such "tell me if you can hear the difference" BS won't get you far on an objectivist site like ASR, as you should know. Having made my point perfectly clear, I'm not discussing this with you anymore. End of discussion.