Is ICONOCLAST cable a "better" cable?

[Cuniberti]

Thanks for taking the time to summarize, @amirm

I'm fairly new here too @Cuniberti, it can be a tough crowd, especially in 'cable' threads. Moral of the story at ASR is; data or it didn't happen.

I get that and I wouldn’t buy anything without a measurement. I’m not talking sides here and Iconoclast published the data. I found it interesting that the guy was honest about the fact that his cable was over engineered and all that was left was subjective listening. That part I don’t like because a blind test could sort that out.

 

[JSmith]

The moronic attacks

I can't actually believe you complain about rudeness and then go and post this... no one at any stage of this thread has used personally offensive terms like "moronic". Apologies if you feel you have been attacked, however I urge you to look at this from the other side of the coin and see the questions posed have been quite reasonable given the circumstances and such a long winded video without summary, further keeping in mind shill accounts and posts happen here at times.

72 mins is silly, best to keep YT videos as brief as possible IMO.



JSmith

 

[HiFidFan]

I get that and I wouldn’t buy anything without a measurement. I’m not talking sides here and Iconoclast published the data. I found it interesting that the guy was honest about the fact that his cable was over engineered and all that was left was subjective listening. That part I don’t like because a blind test could sort that out.

Yup.

I have no reason to doubt that your intentions for posting the video were solid. Maybe I'll get around to watching it in its entirety one of these days.

You should stick around, I've learned a lot here in my short time as a member.

 

[diddley]

Thanks for the summary Amir and the effort.

 

[Chrispy]

Honestly I didn’t know, I’m new here. I don’t think I will post again. The moronic attacks and rudeness is something I don’t need.

So your vague post yields whether you can withstand scrutiny? LOL Don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out....

 

[Cuniberti]

I can't actually believe you complain about rudeness and then go and post this... no one at any stage of this thread has used personally offensive terms like "moronic". Apologies if you feel you have been attacked, however I urge you to look at this from the other side of the coin and see the questions posed have been quite reasonable given the circumstances and such a long winded video without summary, further keeping in mind shill accounts and posts happen here at times.

72 mins is silly, best to keep YT videos as brief as possible IMO.

JSmith[

Please stop.

 

[Cuniberti]

So your vague post yields whether you can withstand scrutiny? LOL Don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out....

LOL is right.

 

[JSmith]

It appears there is data on these cables... a shame the OP didn't bother to post same;

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/index.htm

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/bavpoweranalysis.pdf

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/shieldsandgrounding.pdf

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/vpandimpedance.pdf

I thought this was interesting...

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/speaker/index.htm

Conductor Options:

There are three options available for the conductor composition. Note that the difference between these is NOT a difference in design -- nothing about the electromagnetic properties of the design is affected by the choice of conductor. Regardless of the material choice, the internal structure is the same, the manufacturing process is the same, and the termination methods and hardware are the same, with the full benefits of Galen Gareis' design work in each.

The conductor choices for speaker cable are TPC, OFE and SPTPC. TPC is Electrolytic Tough-Pitch Copper, widely used in communications cable of all sorts. OFE is Oxygen-Free Electrolytic Copper (99.99% pure). SPTPC is Silver-Plated Electrolytic Tough Pitch Copper. The outer jacket color is red/black for TPC, blue/black for OFE or SPTPC.

If that is the case, then why even offer this "option"?



JSmith

 

[Mnyb]

why give yet another expensive cable the time of the day , in any form or fashion ?

I liked Blue Jeans Cable and the iconoclast is not new its been on sale at blue jeans cable for a couple of years.

Soo imo BJC jumped the stark with this cable , did they not ? Basically all his cred built up over the years lost.

I’m sure our new member has fashinating insight on stuff i’m really curious about . I would really like to know “how the sauce is made”

At the moment no audio forum in the world is in need of yet another cable tread . OP seems to be the kind of guy that could have contributed with 1000’s of very interesting treads I be happy and thankful to read.

Why this topic ?

 

[Loathecliff]

The question is, who are these minority of people that can tell the difference? I mean, is there a test they take that shows they can hear better cables?

Wise parents and teachers of old would use an Oxometer to test their charges.
High readings were best avoided.
Now it doesn't seem to matter.

What tedious times we are in.

 

[Cuniberti]

why give yet another expensive cable the time of the day , in any form or fashion ?

I liked Blue Jeans Cable and the iconoclast is not new its been on sale at blue jeans cable for a couple of years.

Soo imo BJC jumped the stark with this cable , did they not ? Basically all his cred built up over the years lost.

I’m sure our new member has fashinating insight on stuff i’m really curious about . I would really like to know “how the sauce is made”

At the moment no audio forum in the world is in need of yet another cable tread . OP seems to be the kind of guy that could have contributed with 1000’s of very interesting treads I be happy and thankful to read.

Why this topic ?

Because I’m up dating my studio and home system and looking at cables. A came across the video and found it interesting. I thought posting it would lead to some insight but was sadly mistaken. I should have just contacted Amrim privately for his thoughtful opinion I respect.

 

[Slayer]

Because I’m up dating my studio and home system and looking at cables. A came across the video and found it interesting. I thought posting it would lead to some insight but was sadly mistaken. I should have just contacted Araim privately for his thoughtful opinion I respect.

John, try not to take offense with some of the comments. Somehow it seems there may have been some miscommunications or intent.
On a side note, I have enjoyed your onemic recordings.

 

[HiFidFan]

Because I’m up dating my studio and home system and looking at cables. A came across the video and found it interesting. I thought posting it would lead to some insight but was sadly mistaken. I should have just contacted Amrim privately for his thoughtful opinion I respect.

Insight on speaker cables? 12 AWG OFC. I prefer bare wire connection, but choose whatever floats your boat (nanna, spade, ring. . .). I hear BJC makes some nice ones I just use high quality 'zip cord'

Interconnects? BJC & Worlds Best Cable are well made, pretty fairly priced, and all the cable you or your system will ever need.

Of course you can always DIY too

 

[Mnyb]

You have passive speakers in a studio I thought active dominated the latest decades . Keep the speaker cables short have the power amp close, then you probably already have some speakerwire around somewhere that would fit with new clean termination.

You can look at the LCR parameters and for a very very long speaker cable you can reach audible limits , especially combined with some speakers with pathological design with impedance dips <1 ohm.
But with the prices suggested for the iconoclast you have financed the power amp by moving it closer to the speakers and then you don’t need an electrically “perfect” cable good enough is perfect then.
( reminds me of the old joke , why do British houses have the water pipes on the outside ? So that can be repaired when they freeze )

Many home audiophiles have these expensive kind of cables in 2-3 meter lengths ? Where the influence is very minimal.
Perplexing enough many audiophiles can only afford the short length

 

[Emlin]

He argues that timing and phase was addressed in his Iconoclast cable vs the Belden offerings, thoughts?

Yes, it's impossible. Next...

 

[Emlin]

Because I’m up dating my studio and home system and looking at cables. A came across the video and found it interesting. I thought posting it would lead to some insight but was sadly mistaken. I should have just contacted Amrim privately for his thoughtful opinion I respect.

And after all your self-declared experience over many years at the top of the music industry, you had never considered cables. How do you think you got where you have if they made a difference? Surely competitors with better cables would have done much better than you.

 

[Grumple]

What gear have you purchased that has come with balanced interconnects?

None. I don't have any balanced connections and so far never have. But I certainly wouldn't pay $160 for one.

 

[mansr]

It appears there is data on these cables... a shame the OP didn't bother to post same;

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/index.htm

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/bavpoweranalysis.pdf

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/shieldsandgrounding.pdf

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/vpandimpedance.pdf

I thought this was interesting...

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/speaker/index.htm


If that is the case, then why even offer this "option"?



JSmith

A few years ago, when this brand was first launched, I went over those "papers." There is nothing exciting in them, mostly the usual factually correct but utterly irrelevant stuff. I got into an argument over it with Mr Gareis himself over at Audiophool Stool. He was quite nasty.

 

[solderdude]

All cables measure different. They all have somewhat to substantially different inductance, capacitance and resistance per length.
That doesn't mean it also is audible.
interlink cables lend themselves perfectly for electrical nulling (when not too long).
The same can be said for speaker cables.
In case of the latter we can often clearly 'measure' differences which is logical and easy to explain.
Under what differences this becomes audible depends on many factors.
In the majority of cables this is not an issue with lengths around a few meters and gauges that are thick enough.

For interlinks capacitance matters when the output resistance of the source is unusually high.
For speakers the resistance component should be low. Capacitance must not be too high either (running in nF) as some amps may not like that.

 

[Sukie]

Because I’m up dating my studio and home system and looking at cables. A came across the video and found it interesting. I thought posting it would lead to some insight but was sadly mistaken. I should have just contacted Amrim privately for his thoughtful opinion I respect.

The problem is that YouTube videos about expensive cables tend to be "trigger points" on this forum. It would have been useful if you'd given a brief summary of how this video is not a sales-pitch but an attempt to explain/unpack and even debunk.