Uncoloured phono cartridges

[Helicopter]

I've had good experiences with all my purchases made through them.

So far so good. 42 minutes to get a tracking number.

I don't normally rip businesses publicly based on an isolated transaction, but in this case, it was HiFi Heaven's policy that was the problem, not an error or a negative service interaction. To the contrary, they were quick and courteous in responding to my cancellation request.

 

[watchnerd]

I just made the mistake of checking eBay prices for the A-T 150MLX. I think I’m selling my spare one...

Yeah, it's pretty nutso.

It's a good cart, but I don't think it's worth $1000-1500 that I've seen for brand new ones.

The AT-ML170 is equally bad when the unobtanium NOS versions appear.

 

[Helicopter]

Yeah, gold-plated boron cantilever. Probably good marketing to replace it with something less shiny. The tactic can create a perception of scarcity across their premium products when this happens with price and demand. Kinda like when game consoles get released, and now some video cards, firms limit the supply deliberately to stir up their customer base into an irrational frenzy.

I might try an LPGear MicroRidge for my AT-440MLb body at some point. I am guessing the body is more similar to the 5XX bodies than the styli are, and if/when I get a new body, I may spring for the 740ML.

I am also curious about the Vessel cartridge with a ruby cantilever and nude super Vivid Line Contact stylus. Someone on the interwebs speculated these are Nagaokas I think, and I really like the bonded aluminum cantilever version of this stylus for my Pickering/Stanton blob body MI cartridges.

Of course I need to get the OC9XML set up before I order anything else, because I may lose my ability to 'do' MMs after the change. That certainly happened with ellipticals back when I got the 440MLb. If I run into that, maybe I'll try the LPGear Bin cartridge, or another AT MC.

 

[watchnerd]

Yeah, gold-plated boron cantilever. Probably good marketing to replace it with something less shiny. The tactic can create a perception of scarcity across their premium products when this happens with price and demand. Kinda like when game consoles get released, and now some video cards, firms limit the supply deliberately to stir up their customer base into an irrational frenzy.

I might try an LPGear MicroRidge for my AT-440MLb body at some point. I am guessing the body is more similar to the 5XX bodies than the styli are, and if/when I get a new body, I may spring for the 740ML.

I am also curious about the Vessel cartridge with a ruby cantilever and nude super Vivid Line Contact stylus. Someone on the interwebs speculated these are Nagaokas I think, and I really like the bonded aluminum cantilever version of this stylus for my Pickering/Stanton blob body MI cartridges.

Of course I need to get the OC9XML set up before I order anything else, because I may lose my ability to 'do' MMs after the change. That certainly happened with ellipticals back when I got the 440MLb. If I run into that, maybe I'll try the LPGear Bin cartridge, or another AT MC.

I only have boring regular boron.

 

[JP]

Yeah, it's pretty nutso.

It's a good cart, but I don't think it's worth $1000-1500 that I've seen for brand new ones.

The AT-ML170 is equally bad when the unobtanium NOS versions appear.

Reminds me I need to measure my 180.

 

[watchnerd]

Reminds me I need to measure my 180.

Now you're just showing off...

 

[JP]

Little.

 

[TimW]

Lot of talk about the MicroLine Audio Technica carts here, what do you guys think of the Shibata versions?

 

[watchnerd]

Lot of talk about the MicroLine Audio Technica carts here, what do you guys think of the Shibata versions?

I have two:

ART9XA
AT33SA

They track nicely and, as expected, can play CD-4 LPs.

 

[Helicopter]

Lot of talk about the MicroLine Audio Technica carts here, what do you guys think of the Shibata versions?

Most people use them for stereo. It is only worth paying extra for one to use quadraphonic gear and records. I will get one for that eventually, but I need to get the decoder and records first. I am glad there is demand for them because I like quadraphonic receivers.

It is strange they are positioned above Microline in AT and Ortofon lines because they are not better. It must be the cool-sounding word.

 

[watchnerd]

It is strange they are positioned above Microline in AT and Ortofon lines because they are not better. It must be the cool-sounding word.

AT puts the SLC styli even higher, at the top.

Some (including AT) say Shibata has better bass than other advanced styli, but I dunno about that...there are so many other variables.

When I compare my AT33EV vs AT33SA, it sounds to me more like "elliptical" vs "not elliptical / advanced", as opposed to any Shibata-specific sound.

And the AT33SA and ART9XA don't sound super similar, even though they both use Shibata....

*shrug*

 

[Helicopter]

AT puts the SLC styli even higher, at the top.

Some (including AT) say Shibata has better bass than other advanced styli, but I dunno about that...there are so many other variables.

When I compare my AT33EV vs AT33SA, it sounds to me more like "elliptical" vs "not elliptical / advanced", as opposed to any Shibata-specific sound.

And the AT33SA and ART9XA don't sound super similar, even though they both use Shibata....

*shrug*

I suppose Shibata is also no worse than ML and has more (quad) capability, and a cooler name, and they want to keep the stair stepped pricing going even though these and SLC are all made the exact same way, with laser cut nude diamonds.

Eventually, I hope we can really measure and show the similarities and differences using the different types by comparing pairs or trios in product lines.

 

[watchnerd]

I suppose Shibata is also no worse than ML and has more (quad) capability, and a cooler name, and they want to keep the stair stepped pricing going even though these and SLC are all made the exact same way, with laser cut nude diamonds.

Eventually, I hope we can really measure and show the similarities and differences using the different types by comparing pairs or trios in product lines.

What I really need to get is a Replicant stylus.

The theory of why it's great makes some sense, but I somehow suspect it's less true in reality and/or a bitch to align.

 

[Helicopter]

What I really need to get is a Replicant stylus.

The theory of why it's great makes some sense, but I somehow suspect it's less true in reality and/or a bitch to align.

Yeah, it seems like the execution is really just a slight modification of another advanced shape. The tail end is trimmed perpendicularly to the groove, but I don't see conceptually how that would change the sound reproduction. I doubt the alignment would be nearly as painful as finding out the ART9 sounds better. I would demo it with some good headphones if I wanted to hear how it compares.

 

[watchnerd]

Yeah, it seems like the execution is really just a slight modification of another advanced shape. The tail end is trimmed perpendicularly to the groove, but I don't see conceptually how that would change the sound reproduction.

Well, supposedly, it exactly replicates the shape of the cutter head.

Which intuitively, would seem like it should be an ideal shape.

But intuition may be entirely wrong for some non-obvious reasons.

 

[Helicopter]

Well, supposedly, it exactly replicates the shape of the cutter head.

Which intuitively, would seem like it should be an ideal shape.

But intuition may be entirely wrong for some non-obvious reasons.

Yeah, but AT says the same thing about ML, and the only difference I see in zoomed photos that makes it look more like a cutter head is the right angle cut on the back, which I can't imagine makes any performance difference.

From Audio Technica EU:

This AT440MLb cartridge is equipped with Audio-Technica’s patented Dual Magnet cartridge design and delivers “practically identical to the cutter head” performance.

The AT440MLb features a MicroLine™ shaped, diamond tip for improved high frequency response with less wear and distortion than conventional linear contact styli. The MicroLine™ stylus almost exactly duplicates the shape of the cutting stylus used to produce the original master disc. This enables it to track portions of the groove other styli cannot reach, resulting in extremely accurate tracing of high frequency passages and ruler-flat frequency response within the audible range. The AT440MLb also features Audio-Technica’s unique Para-toroidal Signal Generator. This unique signal generating system is composed of a unified, laminated coil core wound with a single piece of wire. Internal mechanical and electrical connections are eliminated, minimising magnetic losses and ensuring better signal transfer. A gold plated beryllium cantilever improves stability whilst the dual magnet system offers excellent channel separation.

• Dual magnet cartridge design
• Para-toroidal generator coil circuit
• Micro linear stylus
• PCOCC wire
• Gold plated connectors

“Most advanced design”
The MicroLine™ stylus represents the latest and most advanced design, with a shape that produces better high frequency response with less wear or distortion than with earlier configurations.

 

[Helicopter]

Oh, I took some VM95ML photos:


Maybe you can see some wear in the second reflection dot down right below the point.

It seems impossible to get a good focus with this view similar to what Shure recommends for inspection of wear.

 

[watchnerd]

Oh, I took some VM95ML photos:


Maybe you can see some wear in the second reflection dot down right below the point.
View attachment 106474
View attachment 106475
View attachment 106476

It seems impossible to get a good focus with this view similar to what Shure recommends for inspection of wear.
View attachment 106477

Yeah, maybe there is some wear near the reflection point?

Or maybe it was always like that, a slight defect in manufacture?

And is it consequential or audible?

I'm going to never look at my styli close up under a microscope again.

It just feeds audiphilia nervosa....

 

[Helicopter]

Yeah, maybe there is some wear near the reflection point?

Or maybe it was always like that, a slight defect in manufacture?

And is it consequential or audible?

I'm going to never look at my styli close up under a microscope again.

It just feeds audiphilia nervosa....

I am just taking microscope photos to learn, not to worry about imperfections. I doubt I have ever worn out a stylus, though maybe I got past peak performance with the 440MLb because swapping it for the bonded Pickering LP Gear Vivid Line improved things. That could also just be the FR. Maybe I will wear out MC carts because they cost more.

 

[watchnerd]

I am just taking microscope photos to learn, not to worry about imperfections. I doubt I have ever worn out a stylus, though maybe I got past peak performance with the 440MLb because swapping it for the bonded Pickering LP Gear Vivid Line improved things. That could also just be the FR. Maybe I will wear out MC carts because they cost more.

But once you look you can't unsee.....