WHAT filter? There isn't one.Do you really think that filter would put in danger speakers... ? I hope you don't.
It probably wouldn't destroy the tweeters but my dogs would not like the ultrasound.
WHAT filter? There isn't one.Do you really think that filter would put in danger speakers... ? I hope you don't.
Does this DAC employ ANY filter at all, though? According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinc_filter for there to be a sinc function operating on the output there needs to be a DSP filter that performs this transform. Amirm says "essentially no filtering" on his graph at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-avr-dac-filter-audio-measurements-png.86253/
I wouldn't want to run expensive speakers with expensive tweeters on this AVR, it sends a LOT of ultrasonic noise to the speakers. Once it blew out a few thousand dollars of high-end tweeters I'd definitely get that sincing feeling
Thanks but I’m mainly an A4L buyer. I picked up a 3400 back then and I’ll get a 36 or 45 when it’s time to put my Atmos height speakers in.I have no idea how much you are looking to spend or what features you're looking for, or whether you are amenable to gear that came out a couple of years ago, but if you are value-oriented, I just thought that I'd mention that Crutchfield presently has an outstanding deal on the Denon AVR-X4500H. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX4500/Denon-AVR-X4500H.html
Thanks but I’m mainly an A4L buyer. I picked up a 3400 back then and I’ll get a 36 or 45 when it’s time to put my Atmos height speakers in.
SINAD value used is the one from the Dashboard that has a 22.4 kHz filtering for measurements. In other words, it already has the filtering that AVR does not have. In that regard, that SINAD is independent of the filter performance. So fixing that won't change its standing.
None are here for testing. A fancy processor is here for testing though!
Off topic, but how I wish HDTV and other displays had stuck with RGB. It would have prevented the hostage taking of the ever escalating HDMI standards that are a cash cow. That provide little if any value to the consumer. RGB or at least a simple digital standard and have sound run on its own separate digital connection. ARC be damned.
I’ve picked the last one up in a store nearby for only 477 euros....! Amazing deal.I have no idea how much you are looking to spend or what features you're looking for, or whether you are amenable to gear that came out a couple of years ago, but if you are value-oriented, I just thought that I'd mention that Crutchfield presently has an outstanding deal on the Denon AVR-X4500H. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX4500/Denon-AVR-X4500H.html
For me personally, one of the most significant advantages of HDMI is the avoidance of thick bundles of cable.
SINAD won't change with DSP on.
I agree but except with this: there is no Denon AVP (preamp only) available that I know of, so there is no Denon counterpart for the Marantz AV770x/880x series.The market will decide. Making the Marantz branded device identical to the Denon is a waste of their time. Sadly the easiest way of differentiating the product is to change the sound. People buy into this. So in that respect United Sound are not actually wrong. They are up front about it, which is more than you can say for a great many audiofool brands. Not for ASR denizens, but US will sell you the Denon version so everyone should be happy.
The two receivers measure differently. Given that fact, there are only two possibilities: the differences are audible or they are not. If we assume they are audible, then subjectively it’s to be expected that people will have a preference for one or the other. (Even if this preference is “wrong”.) if it’s not audible then it’s merely a difference of money and aesthetics..
So that is my purely subjective take: I put a well-reviewed Denon X6700 and a less-well-reviewed Marantz SR7013 side by side for two weeks, and despite the ASR measurements seeming to indicate that the Denon should be clearly superior, my ears preferred listening to the Marantz. That includes all the audio adjectives like sharp and round that drive ASR folks bananas, so take it with as many grains of salt as required.
Denon engineers to to get a green light to build a 16 channel Digital in only AVP. If they can get the X8500 to 103 Sinad I would be very curious what they could get SINAD to on an AVP if they dropped all the analog inputs, and didn't have to deal with all those internal amps (13 in the case of the X8500). On the Denon/Marantz side of things it is a shame to be limited to the relatively poor measuring 7705/8805 when obvoiusly the Denon side of things could bring out a much better measuring product. At this point, there is no reason to complain about Marantz as it is obviously a choice by them to measure they way they do.I agree but except with this: there is no Denon AVP (preamp only) available that I know of, so there is no Denon counterpart for the Marantz AV770x/880x series.
On Amazon, the refurb 4500’s don’t seem to have a strong reputation.You motivated me to look at accessories4less, and they have the X4500H for $200 less than Crutchfield. That's a great value. They also have several of the Yamaha AVRs in the same rough price bracket at steep discount.
It's unlikely that music will cause damage to tweeters as high frequency content doesn't have much energy in it, but playing a full scale 20kHz signal might.
I’ve picked the last one up in a store nearby for only 477 euros....! Amazing deal.
Denon engineers to to get a green light to build a 16 channel Digital in only AVP. If they can get the X8500 to 103 Sinad I would be very curious what they could get SINAD to on an AVP if they dropped all the analog inputs, and didn't have to deal with all those internal amps (13 in the case of the X8500). On the Denon/Marantz side of things it is a shame to be limited to the relatively poor measuring 7705/8805 when obvoiusly the Denon side of things could bring out a much better measuring product. At this point, there is no reason to complain about Marantz as it is obviously a choice by them to measure they way they do.
They definitely made it clear that the Marantz team tuned the AVPs/AVRs to have a different sound than Denon. Problem is, aside from the slow roll off filters effects, I can't see how they could sound different, when considering the following facts:
- flat response from 20 to 20,000 Hz, except the roll off due to the deliberate choice of the slow roll of dac reconstruction filter, that does not affect analog inputs, and should have zero to negligible effects on higher sampling frequency digital source.
- low distortions, higher than Denon's but still low enough that they should not sound noticeably different.
- IMDs measured similar to Denon's.
- SNR/DR measurements were not that different.
- the HDAM's is an extra buffer stage at the end of the pre out signal chain, it is a buffer, not an equalizer or tone control.
- power amp section look identical (I haven't seen the 2020 models), even the rail voltages and bias look the same.
May be I missed something, doubt it but always possible as I have not analyzed every page of the schematics in great detail, just the block diagrams and the power amp schematics. It just seems that there is no clear evidence that they would sound that different except under some conditions when using digital inputs, because of the different filter choice.
If they do sound different, how did the Marantz team know what kind of difference people prefer, why wouldn't they just let the amp amps as accurately as possible, and leave the tuning to the users? Also, whatever they did to the FR, wouldn't Audyssey mess it up anyway? Or if direct/pure direct is used, for analog inputs, the only difference is an extra buffer stage, and for digital inputs, the reconstruction filter, that should only have effect on 44.1 kHz and may be even 48 kHz sampling frequency but not higher.
I think people heard the difference because they have been told, and expected the difference. If they did not know which one they were listening to, like in a DBT, I would bet money on the safe side, that they could not ID which is which. I have both, roughly 50/50, and I could not say I hear a difference no matter how hard I tried, but then I am not easily influenced by hearsay, not overly prone to expectation bias, at least that's what I think.
By the way, I am all for Denon to build an AVP, even if they wouldn't drop the analogs, but I always thought it would be wishful thinking because it would almost definitely hurt Marantz AVP sales.