Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[Bear123]

I'd like to ask if someone can summarize the best configurations for listening to 2 channel music vs. multi-channel home theater and how one might set up those two different scenarios for best quality.

Here is what I'm thinking about setting up but want to get clarity. So please educate me on the below idea.

2) For 2 channel or 2.1 channel music avoid using the AVR DAC and amps. Use it for audessey and pre-amp.

• use separate streaming endpoint or transport of your choice.
• use external DAC of your choice
• Analog in to AVR
• Use audessey room correction and eq software second memory slot for 2 channel configuration
• Use front L/R pre-outs
• use 2 channel external amp of your choice

This seems like a heck of a lot of trouble and expense for what will make no real life audible difference, other than the use of a good external amp if you need more power.

 

[Beershaun]

It also seems to work if the source sent the audio over as Stereo over HDMI from what Amir has posted.

But I disagree with the second statement. Quite a lot of video content has 2.0 audio only.

I also agree 2ch audio over HDMI should get scrutiny and perform well. Music listening via streaming services have become the most popular way to listen to music and people who want the convenience of an all-in-one solution will use these with streaming media devices to stream music from their app of choice primarily via HDMI

 

[amirm]

You haven't answered the question. In 11CH mode the X3600 didn't clip until close to 4V for the LR channels? And the X4700 clips at 1.1V? Call it 11CH or full pre-amp, not sure it matters.

Here is the 4700:

As you see, you can push it to 3.6 volts but after that, it severely clips the output from pre-out.

 

[zelig]

Kudos to both Amir and Denon for putting this right. It's good to know that the world is not just quite as sh!t as it was a week ago!

 

[amirm]

Someone asked at what volume setting you get 1.4 volt/optimal SINAD from pre outs with amps off. The answer is 79 (+- 0.5).

 

[Beershaun]

This seems like a heck of a lot of trouble and expense for what will make no real life audible difference, other than the use of a good external amp if you need more power.

Well a much better engineered separate DAC and power supply is cheap if you look at the top quartile of Amir's chart there are a bunch of options. So figuring out if there is a way to take advantage of that improvement while using the DSP of the AVR and then choosing a separate amp. But you are right it is much too complicated in this case and not worth the effort.

 

[theglobalelite]

There are two different scenarios; 11CH mode, disconnects LR channels for use with external amp and pre-amp mode which disconnects all internal amps meaning you must use external amps for all your channels. These settings are found in the amp assign menu. You can choose actual speaker config in the speaker set up menu so it doesn't through Audyssey off (only measures the speakers you actually have connected).

If switch to 11CH mode, but only use 5, 7 or 9 channels with extraneous channels set to off, then I get a tiny bit of that noise introduced amir measured originally? Do I get less noise the more channels I use? (My current plan is to use 7 with externally amped L&R)

 

[Xyrium]

This is fantastic news. Though I've always been a fan of Denon products, especially their integrateds, this fully restores my faith in them. It's not just the new results, but their willingness as a company to step up and investigate the issue. That's huge....nodding slow hand clap.

From what I see here, this AVR takes out the recently-reviewed NAD 268, now doesn't it?

 

[amirm]

If switch to 11CH mode, but only use 5, 7 or 9 channels with extraneous channels set to off, then I get a tiny bit of that noise introduced amir measured originally? Do I get less noise the more channels I use? (My current plan is to use 7 with externally amped L&R)

If you have enabled at least the number of channels your source generates, then you are good. Going down in channel count is what causes the problem.

 

[MZKM]

If you have enabled at least the number of channels your source generates, then you are good. Going down in channel count is what causes the problem.

But Atmos is 35 channels !!!

 

[YSC]

I have to show my respect here, as a free reviewer it’s so easy to insist on your previous findings and call it a day, maybe bashing Denon trying to find excuse to disregard your measurements. But spending numerous time and effort with them to sort out the problem and post it up is very respectable

 

[tparm]

Here is the 4700:

View attachment 71694

As you see, you can push it to 3.6 volts but after that, it severely clips the output from pre-out.

Thanks for clarifying Amirm.

 

[amirm]

But Atmos is 35 channels !!!

That is internally decoded in the AVR though.

 

[amirm]

@peng asked me to load down the pre-out and measure. I thought it would be more useful to just give the output imepedance:

It is fairly high output impedance. So don't load it down below 12 k Ohm.

When I tried it with severely low 600 ohm load, it naturally dropped a lot of output level but distortion remained good:

 

[amirm]

Last call for measurements before I pack this unit.

 

[John Galt]

Last call for measurements before I pack this unit.

Airplay, does it measure just like HDMI?

 

[amirm]

Airplay, does it measure just like HDMI?

Yes, I tested it with Roon and get the same performance as HDMI. Note that Airplay is 16 bits so the best it can do, is what this AVR does (SINAD of 96 dB).

 

[valerianf]

Let us look at the practical case when the FR and FL channel have the internal power amplifiers disconnected and the Center channel use the internal power amplifier.
If I go up with the volume knob until the first channel start to clip it will be the FR and FL for a volume set to 79.
Is there a way to make the channel FR and FL clip at the same level than the Center channel?
Not all the front channels are equal when some have their internal amplifier disconnected!

 

[amirm]

Is there a way to make the channel FR and FL clip at the same level than the Center channel?

??? They should all clip at the same level since they have the same amplifiers.

 

[usul]

Don't know if you can test this.. I may have found a bug.

I had the X4700H for a few days to play with.

I used the Audyssey app to take readings.
I saved the final curve I liked..
Uploaded curve into memory 1 and also memory 2.

Played a 2 channel music source while switching between both memories.

To my surprise, the soind quality was different.

Memory 1 seemed little louder and more dynamic and lively..
Memory 2 seems lower level volume and soind was more laid back
I made sure all settings were set to same on both memories.

It might be a bug, but maybe this is something you can see with measurement tools?

If it is a bug, maybe you can relay to Denon..

Thanks