DACs that better compensate for noise

[solderdude]

I will try again, downsampling same file.

This time mention the original file, post a small excerpt. Note the MP3 encoder settings and post the excerpt with the MP3.
Next use ABX comparator and show the log.

 

[pkane]

Although i don't get out a voltmeter, i listen for "differences in amplitude". Like if i put the loudest part of the music at the level that is most comfortable to "my" hearing, and then listen for the faint background instrument at it's highest and lowest volume levels and how much they differ. This is just what i do, and it is only for my own purposes...it is sufficient for me...but of course no one else.

That’s really inaccurate. Level differences as low as 0.1dB have been shown to make a difference in preference testing. You can’t set levels that closely by casual listening. Just one more variable to pay attention to that results in a biased outcome if ignored.

 

[Frank Dernie]

send it to me...i will send you a self addressed box (smile)..i will even send it back. I would love to save myself the money of trying a qutest.

Are you in the UK?

 

[wineandmusic]

That’s really inaccurate. Level differences as low as 0.1dB have been shown to make a difference in preference testing. You can’t set levels that closely by casual listening. Just one more variable to pay attention to that results in a biased outcome if ignored.

fair enough...
what is refreshing is that there are beliefs so much different than the other site, that more closely match my own beliefs.
I still am not willing to do "blind" level match testing or whatever that entails, but I will work harder to convince myself one way or the other now, and if I am able to convince myself one is decisively better, i will explain exactly in detail what i have found, and then anyone that cares to, can do a "more professional" test with what i find. Of course, it is possible, that once i put more effort into finding a difference, that I may come to the same conclusion that there is no difference, and this is a moot point. For me, if it is not an "easily" identifiable difference, it is not worth the money, and right now the qutest is the only dac that really has my interest.

 

[wineandmusic]

Are you in the UK?

oh, nvm then (grin).

 

[wineandmusic]

This time mention the original file, post a small excerpt. Note the MP3 encoder settings and post the excerpt with the MP3.
Next use ABX comparator and show the log.

Not doing that....happy to post the file and my findings though.
Since you are here, i would like some clarity about your statements about some dacs sound different.
Are you of the contention that all dacs that have green charts for amirs two tests will sound exactly alike and that only dacs that are poorly designed sound different (or purposely designed to sound different). Likewise, do you believe all amplifiers that Amir measures well sound exactly alike?

 

[solderdude]

It's hard to convince someone when he/she is already convinced.

 

[solderdude]

Not doing that....happy to post the file and my findings though.
Since you are here, i would like some clarity about your statements about some dacs sound different.

Are you of the contention that all dacs that have green charts for amirs two tests will sound exactly alike?

I had already replied.
Perhaps reading and above all interpreting correctly what I wrote helps.
Another suggestion is to read (and also interpret correctly what was written) in the many DAC and perception threads on this website.

 

[wineandmusic]

It's hard to convince someone when he/she is already convinced.

I am not convinced of anything, pro or con.

which is why i asked for clarity... i would like some clarity about your statements about some dacs sound different.
Are you of the contention that all dacs that have green charts for amirs two tests will sound exactly alike and that only dacs that are poorly designed sound different (or purposely designed to sound different). Likewise, do you believe all amplifiers that Amir measures well sound exactly alike?

 

[wineandmusic]

I had already replied.
Perhaps reading and above all interpreting correctly what I wrote helps.
Another suggestion is to read (and also interpret correctly what was written) in the many DAC and perception threads on this website.

if you don't want to say all green zone dacs, do you think a qutest will sound exactly the same as a topping that measures well. I seriously want to know your belief.

 

[solderdude]

I already replied to the questions about DACs.
Please search for my replies

if you don't want to say all green zone dacs, do you think a qutest will sound exactly the same as a topping that measures well. I seriously want to know your belief.

What I 'believe' is something you can't accept as long as you haven't done any tests properly matched, 'blind' and showing statistical relevance.
You will probably never do that because it magically takes away abilities you are convinced you have.

Besides I am not a SINAD chart apostle.

 

[Jimbob54]

 

[wineandmusic]

What I 'believe' is something you can't accept as long as you haven't done any tests properly matched, 'blind' and showing statistical relevance.
You will probably never do that because it magically takes away abilities you are convinced you have.

I don't understand why you can't say your belief? I can accept it. As a matter of fact if you would say it, and i didn't see a lot of rebuttals, It would likely end my desire to even spend $1800 to try a qutest. If someone with your apparent knowledge can confidently say that a $1800 qutest will sound the exact same as a $300 topping, even if you were wrong and the difference was "very marginal", then I have ZERO desire to even try it.

I have no problems repeating my beliefs, why would you?

 

[solderdude]

Because I do not believe things until I actually tried it myself, tested properly.
Measurements suggest they will sound the same but only in a well conducted blind test.
They will sound quite different when compared sighted. That last part is my conviction (not just a belief) and is based on 30+ years in audio and electronics design, service in A/V equipment and measuring/debugging electronics.

My opinion is that even when I would say you do not need to loan/buy/try the qutest you will anyway.
Reasons: A you don't seem to take my posts seriously and B it will always be nagging in your mind anyway.

I recognize a lost cause when I see one.

 

[Jimbob54]

I don't understand why you can't say your belief? I can accept it. As a matter of fact if you would say it, and i didn't see a lot of rebuttals, It would likely end my desire to even spend $1800 to try a qutest. If someone with your apparent knowledge can confidently say that a $1800 qutest will sound the exact same as a $300 topping, even if you were wrong and the difference was "very marginal", then I have ZERO desire to even try it.

I have no problems repeating my beliefs, why would you?

He has said his view on this subject many many times. As have many others. I believe you want the quote/headline that someone respected around here agrees with your very specific wording that they "sound exactly the same".

Obtain the Qutest, come back and tell us you couldn't perceive a difference, you'll get a "yup".

Come back and tell us you heard any difference. Guess what: "uh huh"

 

[SIY]

Come back and tell us you heard any difference. Guess what: "uh huh"

Unless tested ears-only and level matched with a significant identification of differences. Then we have something interesting.

 

[Jimbob54]

Unless tested ears-only and level matched with a significant identification of differences. Then we have something interesting.

A bone fide Golden Ears! By their own admission in their latter years too. A rare find!

 

[solderdude]

As soon as he starts comparing with 'proper controls' his magic abilities will magically disappear, as were mine, many many years ago.
Funnily enough sometimes the magic pops up relentlessly and have to use the 'magic removal' tools again. It always sets me straight. Even when there are actual differences while using the 'de-magicfier'.

This is the main reason audiophiles/audiophools won't test blind properly (there is magic in that last word).
It removes abilities they were convinced they possessed.

 

[A Surfer]

I try not to be resentful of people who refuse to test, but they get so angry when people suggest that they test and often I find they get rather aggressive in their defensiveness. Just once I would like to encounter one person who says sure, how do I test properly, this sounds interesting.

 

[Jimbob54]

I try not to be resentful of people who refuse to test, but they get so angry when people suggest that they test and often I find they get rather aggressive in their defensiveness. Just once I would like to encounter one person who says sure, how do I test properly, this sounds interesting.

I'm less certain than you on both the points they were seeking to make, motivations and even demeanour. Went from USB noise rejection to dac differentiation via green zones to buying (or not) a very expensive piece of kit if a penguin on the Internet said a few magic words.