Passive vs active DSP speakers KEF and Genelec

[Ron Texas]

Genelec 8361A, US price, $4995 each plus sales tax, about 7%, plus new stands due to their large size and mass. They have a lot of competition form the best passive speakers with subs and reasonably priced electronics at that price. Probably a different calculus in Europe.

 

[watchnerd]

Genelec 8361A, US price, $4995 each plus sales tax, about 7%, plus new stands due to their large size and mass. They have a lot of competition form the best passive speakers with subs and reasonably priced electronics at that price. Probably a different calculus in Europe.

Not to mention the lack of good looks for $10k.

 

[q3cpma]

Genelec 8361A, US price, $4995 each plus sales tax, about 7%, plus new stands due to their large size and mass. They have a lot of competition form the best passive speakers with subs and reasonably priced electronics at that price. Probably a different calculus in Europe.

If you have something comparable in performance and construction made in Europe/US, I'd be interested to know. So far, I've seen the KEF Reference 1, but it is in the same ballpark without all the technological gizmos and pro violence-proofness.
Maybe some expensive Q Acoustics (EDIT: nah, still made in China, apparently. Shocking with those prices).

 

[Ron Texas]

@q3cpma, let's face it, you are in love with Genelec. I would say Kef R3, two Rythmik L3 subs, a large choice of balanced DAC's for under $500 and a couple of Emotiva PA-1 amps. That's around $4k In this game quality does not improve with price, although the ability to fill large rooms often does.

 

[watchnerd]

If you have something comparable in performance and construction made in Europe/US, I'd be interested to know. So far, I've seen the KEF Reference 1, but it is in the same ballpark without all the technological gizmos and pro violence-proofness.
Maybe some expensive Q Acoustics (EDIT: nah, still made in China, apparently. Shocking with those prices).

$11,000

https://barefootsound.com/micromain27/

Not as ugly as Genelec.

Made in Oregon:

 

[q3cpma]

@q3cpma, let's face it, you are in love with Genelec. I would say Kef R3, two Rythmik L3 subs, a large choice of balanced DAC's for under $500 and a couple of Emotiva PA-1 amps. That's around $4k In this game quality does not improve with price, although the ability to fill large rooms often does.

And you get cheap labor, an unknown level of QC and no transparency on the measurement front. Yes, there are only a few other brand I'd consider, so you can call me a fanboy if you will, but please do compare what's comparable; and I'm probably not the only one who'll happily pay a bit more for a Made in Europe sticker.

 

[andreasmaaan]

$11,000

https://barefootsound.com/micromain27/

Not as ugly as Genelec.

Have you seen measurements of these anywhere? I'm sure they do bass well, but being MTMs with a C2C spacing of around 12cm and a crossover frequency of 3kHz, I can't imagine the off-axis radiation is in any way comparable to Kef R series or Genelec Ones.

 

[q3cpma]

$11,000

https://barefootsound.com/micromain27/

I wouldn't put it on the same exact level, but it's certainly near. It does seem quite directive above 10 kHz, might not be for everyone; would love to see a spin, as I've always been a bit skeptical toward MTM configurations where the Ms handles quite high frequencies.

Not as ugly as Genelec.

I don't agree, but well.

 

[Ron Texas]

And you get cheap labor, an unknown level of QC and no transparency on the measurement front. Yes, there are only a few other brand I'd consider, so you can call me a fanboy if you will, but please do compare what's comparable; and I'm probably not the only one who'll happily pay a bit more for a Made in Europe sticker.

I'm not completely happy with Chinese domination of manufacturing for national security reasons, but goods manufactured there for or by US, EU and Japanese companies do not have QC problems as a rule. Rythmik is owned by a Chinese American based in Austin TX. His reputation is first rate. Today I am sitting 30 minutes away from his place of business. I find no cachet in paying for anything made in the high cost environment of some European countries. It costs a lot less to manufacture in the US which is why BMW, Mercedes, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US. The BMW facility is the largest one they own in the world.

 

[watchnerd]

Have you seen measurements of these anywhere? I'm sure they do bass well, but being MTMs with a C2C spacing of around 12cm and a crossover frequency of 3kHz, I can't imagine the off-axis radiation is in any way comparable to Kef R series or Genelec Ones.

I haven't seen, but I have heard them.

But if our definition of "comparable" is "concentric drivers", then there is hardly any competition to the speakers you mention.

 

[q3cpma]

Have you seen measurements of these anywhere? I'm sure they do bass well, but being MTMs with a C2C spacing of around 12cm and a crossover frequency of 3kHz, I can't imagine the off-axis radiation is in any way comparable to Kef R series or Genelec Ones.

There's that in the manual.

 

[watchnerd]

I wouldn't put it on the same exact level, but it's certainly near. It does seem quite directive above 10 kHz, might not be for everyone; would love to see a spin, as I've always been a bit skeptical toward MTM configurations where the Ms handles quite high frequencies.

You know what's amazing about studio monitors?

How many great recordings get made without worrying about perfect directivity.

 

[Vintage57]

I recommend auditioning the Neumann KH 420. It’s in the 10K range for a pair plus stands, they are small for a full range 13 x 25 front baffle. The KH 420 measures flat to 26Hz.
I’ve never owned Genelec’s but respect their abilities. I chose the KH420 over ATC‘s I had previously.

 

[q3cpma]

I haven't seen, but I have heard them.

But if our definition of "comparable" is "concentric drivers", then there is hardly any competition to the speakers you mention.

Nah, I meant manufacturing location, general reliability and degree of R&D.

 

[q3cpma]

You know what's amazing about studio monitors?

How many great recordings get made without worrying about perfect directivity.

And your point is? Because this speaks more of the ability of the sound engineer than anything else, to me.

 

[watchnerd]

And your point is? Because this speaks more of the ability of the sound engineer than anything else, to me.

Circle of confusion is the point.

If most recordings are engineered to be played back on speakers with less than perfect directivity, how important is it, really?

Especially given room interactions.

Genelec are well-engineered speakers, agreed.

But most of the world doesn't use concentric drivers.

 

[q3cpma]

Anyway, I'm sure anyone would aknowledge that the Ones certainly boast of their state-of-the-art status in their price, so it may not be the best choice when comparing pure performance:money ratio. Their 8340 or even 8330 couple with a SAM sub is probably way more interesting on that front.

 

[andreasmaaan]

There's that in the manual.
View attachment 63760

Yeh, but it's the vertical radiation that you'd expect not to be pretty.

 

[andreasmaaan]

If most recordings are engineered to be played back on speakers with less than perfect directivity, how important is it, really?

Most recordings are made to be played back on earbuds and car speakers

 

[q3cpma]

Circle of confusion is the point.

If most recordings are engineered to be played back on speakers with less than perfect directivity, how important is it, really?

Especially given room interactions.

Genelec are well-engineered speakers, agreed.

But most of the world doesn't use concentric drivers.

Well, but weren't studios quite absorbant in that time of "bad" speakers? Having a good dispersion might fill this gap.

But I kind of agree: we lack data on how exactly good or bad vertical dispersion is interpreted; ignoring the very real "head locked in a 5° plane" situation.