Hi, headphone buying advice

[Jimbob54]

If I was ever considering changing to an open... I was curious about the verum awhile back ... But that's another story...

But I am surprised you could get those you mentioned for 600 to 700

Not sure what the US second hand market is like compared to UK. You have to be sharp eyed but yes, hd800 for 550 sterling but quite old. Lcd x 700 ish. Again quite old. Not "mint" cosmetically either. Dings and scratches. Which I can't see when on my head

 

[solderdude]

I was planning on getting a closed..

Suggestion in the HD58X price range: K371

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/best-sounding-full-size-closed-back.12620/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tral-low-budget-closed-back-headphones.11698/

 

[Jimbob54]

Not sure what the US second hand market is like compared to UK. You have to be sharp eyed but yes, hd800 for 550 sterling but quite old. Lcd x 700 ish. Again quite old. Not "mint" cosmetically either. Dings and scratches. Which I can't see when on my head

And in fairness, 700 gbp when I got them was probs more like $1000, so like I say, depends on market and which continent they are made /bought

 

[marv]

Suggestion in the HD58X price range: K371

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/best-sounding-full-size-closed-back.12620/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tral-low-budget-closed-back-headphones.11698/

Thanks for the suggestion.... What would you suggest as a stepup/upgrade to these on a 600 to 700 euro budget that is substantially worth the cost? .. I don't mind getting used/second hand

 

[marv]

And in fairness, 700 gbp when I got them was probs more like $1000, so like I say, depends on market and which continent they are made /bought

True

 

[Archsam]

Theres something to be said about buying 'local', the price inflates so much once an item crosses the pond, so to speak.

My point of reference are usually speakers. When I was young and growing up in Toronto I used to lust after Paradigm speakers. They are made in Canada then, their prices are affordable compared to the equvilant Euro brands like Monitor Audio and B&W. Then when I first arrived in the UK I bought a second hand pair of Monitor Audio S2 for under £300, which even in 2005 were a bit of a bargain. I now own a pair of Harbeth P3esr, while not cheap the price I paid is notably less than how much they cost in Canada - here they're £1500 new today if you look around, while in Canada they are approx. £1850.

 

[Jimbob54]

Theres something to be said about buying 'local', the price inflates so much once an item crosses the pond, so to speak.

My point of reference are usually speakers. When I was young and growing up in Toronto I used to lust after Paradigm speakers. They are made in Canada then, their prices are affordable compared to the equvilant Euro brands like Monitor Audio and B&W. Then when I first arrived in the UK I bought a second hand pair of Monitor Audio S2 for under £300, which even in 2005 were a bit of a bargain. I now own a pair of Harbeth P3esr, while not cheap the price I paid is notably less than how much they cost in Canada - here they're £1500 new today if you look around, while in Canada they are approx. £1850.

Indeed. See also, rip off Britain.

 

[ZolaIII]

Couple of suggestions from me and all relatively in a budget category & neither really need an amplifier.
Over ear ATH-MSR7, those new cost around 200$ you can probably find them if you are lucky for around 150$. Spoiler the headband peals of & so do earpads as coating is protein letter. They are discontinued now.
EMI's the new FiiO FH1s, costs around 60~70$.
Earbuds Creative Aurvana Air, nowadays cost around 80$ you can catch them on discount fot about 50€. Great build & design.

 

[Archsam]

May you kindly elaborate? Does it mean that the Elegia disappointed you? or is the sound difference really that big from the Clears?

Come to think of it, i have been pondering on the benefits of making the jump to higher tier headphones from the ~200-300 priced headphones like the HP50, AKG K371, Meze 99, etc... is the jump from these to the levels of Elegia, Ether CX, Aeon 2 worth the price difference in your experience? in short, please excuse the bluntness, but is the sound worth the big euros/dollars the price difference? i know its in the ears of the beholder but will there be a glaring difference in sound? a wow factor? im willing to pay the difference if its worth it.... your opinions?

The sound quality between the Clear vs Elegia is quite significant. I wasn't prepared to go up to the Clear before the audition, but once I spend 2 hours swapping back and forth and listening to the same music I just couldn't let myself settle for the Elegia. I also listened to the HD800s, Audeze LCD-2, Shure SE846, Sony MDR-Z7M2 and a few more that I have forgotten about, before I went for the Clear.

Of course the Clear are open back and the Elegia is closed. But I find that the Clear aren't that loud from the 'outside' and the Elegia aren't completely silent outside either - they have designed a small port to allow air pressure to release, which contributed to their soundstage.

From my limited experience with audio gears (I'm a cheap skate and I don't constantly buy / sell gears) the source and the amp are usually easier to predict their sound but not with speakers / headphones. With source and amplifier as long as you do your research and knowing what you like, I find it is a game of more / less - with DACs unless it is badly designed / implemented you are picking components with more or less detail / soundstage width / depth. With amps it's more or less power / control over speakers and headphones (I agreed with those who say that a very good amp 'disappears' and gets out of the way). But speakers/ headphones have so many variables in their principles, driver type / design, crossover implementations, enclosures, even a grille / baffle affects the sound, you can't really 'get' what they sound like just by reading about their test measurements and reading other people's subjective opinion.

Personally I won't risk buying expensive headphones and speakers without listening to them. A lot of them. Now I totally get the difficulty with auditioning, especially now when we are living with the new 'normal' and the prevalence of online shopping. But if this is your first pair of expensive headphones, why not take your time and enjoy the journey by testing everything you can get your hands on?

 

[marv]

The sound quality between the Clear vs Elegia is quite significant. I wasn't prepared to go up to the Clear before the audition, but once I spend 2 hours swapping back and forth and listening to the same music I just couldn't let myself settle for the Elegia. I also listened to the HD800s, Audeze LCD-2, Shure SE846, Sony MDR-Z7M2 and a few more that I have forgotten about, before I went for the Clear.

Of course the Clear are open back and the Elegia is closed. But I find that the Clear aren't that loud from the 'outside' and the Elegia aren't completely silent outside either - they have designed a small port to allow air pressure to release, which contributed to their soundstage.

From my limited experience with audio gears (I'm a cheap skate and I don't constantly buy / sell gears) the source and the amp are usually easier to predict their sound but not with speakers / headphones. With source and amplifier as long as you do your research and knowing what you like, I find it is a game of more / less - with DACs unless it is badly designed / implemented you are picking components with more or less detail / soundstage width / depth. With amps it's more or less power / control over speakers and headphones (I agreed with those who say that a very good amp 'disappears' and gets out of the way). But speakers/ headphones have so many variables in their principles, driver type / design, crossover implementations, enclosures, even a grille / baffle affects the sound, you can't really 'get' what they sound like just by reading about their test measurements and reading other people's subjective opinion.

Personally I won't risk buying expensive headphones and speakers without listening to them. A lot of them. Now I totally get the difficulty with auditioning, especially now when we are living with the new 'normal' and the prevalence of online shopping. But if this is your first pair of expensive headphones, why not take your time and enjoy the journey by testing everything you can get your hands on?

Good point

 

[solderdude]

the Elegia aren't completely silent outside either - they have designed a small port to allow air pressure to release, which contributed to their soundstage.

The small hole is there to get the proper bass response and has nothing to do with soundstage.

 

[marv]

The small hole is there to get the proper bass response and has nothing to do with soundstage.

I know that there is no perfect headphone, but what closed headphone have you tested that ticks the most boxes, sonically speaking as in neutrality, sound stage, accuracy in the elegia price range that is a clear step up compared to the likes of K371, Hp50, focal spirit pro etc...? asking for your experience and opinion.. thanks

 

[ZolaIII]

I know that there is no perfect headphone, but what closed headphone have you tested that ticks the most boxes, sonically speaking as in neutrality, sound stage, accuracy in the elegia price range that is a clear step up compared to the likes of K371, Hp50, focal spirit pro etc...? asking for your experience and opinion.. thanks

No there are no perfect sounding headphones & of course every design has it's shortcomings but some get very close. For me classic Japanese approach whose among the best, now we have similar approaches but without low & sub bass roll of which is a step up. Take a look at the frequency response graphs for those I suggested you.

 

[marv]

No there are no perfect sounding headphones & of course every design has it's shortcomings but some get very close. For me classic Japanese approach whose among the best, now we have similar approaches but without low & sub bass roll of which is a step up. Take a look at the frequency response graphs for those I suggested you.

thanks, will look at the graphs

 

[marv]

any more inputs?

 

[ZolaIII]

Achieving such frequency response isnt same thing new, for instance Pioneer Monitor 10 II from 1970 menaged the same but you won't find to buy those easily & would need a serious restoration.
Edit: Of course you can find a lot of planar headaphones with such bass responses but they will lack a physical punch (LPS pressure) for dynamic drivers not much have achieved this.
A couple more "inputs" & why I didn't mention them;
MEE M6 Pro EMI's great bass but really bad highs & difference between channels, Onkyo M700 EMI's a rather good sound but the fragile cables.

 

[marv]

Achieving such frequency response isnt same thing new, for instance Pioneer Monitor 10 II from 1970 menaged the same but you won't find to buy those easily & would need a serious restoration.
Edit: Of course you can find a lot of planar headaphones with such bass responses but they will lack a physical punch (LPS pressure) for dynamic drivers not much have achieved this.
A couple more "inputs" & why I didn't mention them;
MEE M6 Pro EMI's great bass but really bad highs & difference between channels, Onkyo M700 EMI's a rather good sound but the fragile cables.

i read that the MSR7's highs are quite too hot? or do they get tamed with prolonged use? ang what about the MSR7B's? are they the same model just updated cosmetically?

 

[solderdude]

Thanks for the suggestion.... What would you suggest as a stepup/upgrade to these on a 600 to 700 euro budget that is substantially worth the cost? .. I don't mind getting used/second hand

The thing is my suggestion may well not be what you want. That's why I usually do not like to give recommendations but rather would suggest to listen to a few headphones I think are worth listening to.
For instance some find the HP50 or MH40 realistic, some even the AudioQuest headphones. I don't but some do. Who am I to tell them they are wrong ? Some say the K500 or K501 is the best sounding one or Grado's.
Some headphones have the ability you 'accept' them despite being colored, others may start to sound off or remain good.
It's not the headphones changing, its the brain adapting.
That is the problem with recommendations. All I can say is what I like and think sounds realistic to me.

Given the HD58X preference I would think the K371 and AEON closed (2). Never heard nor measured the Ether CX.
I really liked (but am told not to) is the HD820 which sounded good to me.
Also the more expensive Fostex/Denons have their good properties. Perhaps consider the NDH20 (mady by Sennheiser). I even thought the HD630VB sounded reasonably well and the bass adjustment was really helping when having the player on random play.
Even the Shure SRH1540 has some good properties as well as the ATH-MSR7(b) a bit 'sharp' but can be fixed with a filter or EQ.
Some need EQ, others less so.
Personally I like my (modified) DT1770, stock it is not that great though.
It is not easy to find excellent closed headphones but they do exist.

 

[ZolaIII]

i read that the MSR7's highs are quite too hot? or do they get tamed with prolonged use? ang what about the MSR7B's? are they the same model just updated cosmetically?

Highs hot? Actually they are a tad bright. You had ATH M50 well the ATH-MSR7 is less bright, much more refined and clearly sounding. Default earpads are bad and peel off in time. I didn't consider MSR7B's at all because worse cable connections I do think they are similar. Regarding ATH-MSR7 try to find pre 2018 version you will distinct them by the different box colour.

 

[ZolaIII]

@solderdude more expensive Fostex/Denons use Foster driver's which I like but there are less expensive options with their drivers also. That's a classical Japanese tuning Onkyo - Foster - Fostex...