Hi, headphone buying advice

[solderdude]

Yes I know Foster is OEM for various brands amongst them Fostex, Denon, Creative, and some other brands.
Some of them sound really pleasing, not necessarily realistic.

 

[marv]

It's not the headphones changing, its the brain adapting.

Very true.. when i lsten to my CB1.. i really enjoy the sound.. then i change to the 7506...harsh, i have to volume down to appreciate the tracks.. after my ears "adapt" to the sound.. i go back to the CB1... dull and muffled sounding to me in the first few minutes until my ears 'adapt again..

HD820 which sounded good to me

too harsh.. the price for me : )

Perhaps consider the NDH20

Have you measured these?

Personally I like my (modified) DT1770

what did you do to them to for you to like them.. what in particular did you change?

I think i enjoy more reading our discussion here more than actually buying the headphone... taking my time....

 

[ZolaIII]

Well they kept insisting on roll of in lower bass regions (Foster - Fostex, even on planar one's which is bizarre) so that mids come in front more. I found the aprouch with slightly boosted mids and neutral bass as a better approach. Realistic is a very discussable term when it comes to headphones. I personally like a little bit of excitement in mids, a bit sparkle in highs but not sibling & tight fast accurate bass.

Edit: headaphones are never ending quest.

 

[marv]

You had ATH M50 well the ATH-MSR7 is less bright

really? i never taught that was the case... interesting... maybe because i have never auditioned the MSR7s... how do the higher frequencies compare to the 7506?

Regarding ATH-MSR7 try to find pre 2018 version you will distinct them by the different box colour.

i will look into it, thanks again

 

[solderdude]

what did you do to them to for you to like them.. what in particular did you change?

Haven't measured the NDH20.
DT1770, partly closed the ports, used DT770 pads (the grey ones, the EDT770VB sounds different) and use the then obligatory DT1990 filter because there is a substantial treble peak with the DT770 pads described here.

 

[ZolaIII]

really? i never taught that was the case... interesting... maybe because i have never auditioned the MSR7s... how do the higher frequencies compare to the 7506?

Read this while it's made with pads in not so great shape:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/audio-technica/ath-msr7/

This are more representive measurements:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHMSR7.pdf

 

[Blujackaal]

I own both the Etymotic ER4-XR (having owned 2 older pairs of Etys before), and the Shure SE535.

Sound quality wise, without question the ER4-XR sounded better. More detail, more realistic, and has satisfyingly tight bass. Some say they are light on bass but I think they are accurate if slightly on the lean side if you listen to electronica . Bass is the only area the SE535 does better IMO. However the Shure's treble are too recessed for my taste, and I am someone who is sensitive to bright sounding gears.

I bought the SE535 as a temporary replacement when I had to send the ER4-XR to America for repair. FYI if you live outside the US it is not worth sending them in for out-of-warranty service - the shipping cost + duty when they returned to me in the UK was A LOT MORE than the actual repair cost. Sigh.

One good thing I have to say about the Shure though is their fit and comfort. Once you learn how to insert them and loop the cable over and behind your ears they disappeared. With the Etymotic the cable causes microphonic noise when they rub against you while you are on the move, and that is very annoying. So if I were out and on the move I will grab the SE535 every time.

Edit: some people online suggested looping the Etymotic cable up and behind your ear, Shure style, to cure the microphonic noise.
Don't do it! Over time you will break the connection in the cable where you bend the cable around your ear. That was what prompted me to send it back to America for out-of-warranty service... should have just bought a new cable instead.

I've had the SE425 and few other headphones, The ER4XR is a upgrade in everyway for quality. The bass on 4XR is refreshing and more than enough compared to the overly bass boosted IEMs wither mid tier or TOTL. It having no crossover artifacts is a extra bonus by being one driver, so no coherency issues.

 

[Jimbob54]

Yes I know Foster is OEM for various brands amongst them Fostex, Denon, Creative, and some other brands.
Some of them sound really pleasing, not necessarily realistic.

Perhaps the creative EMUs might be worth the OP looking at. I've seen people compare favourably to the actual fostex branded woodies

 

[maverickronin]

I've seen people compare favourably to the actual fostex branded woodies

Those aren't bad sounding, but like the original Denon/Fostex models they have no isolation and leak a lot sound despite appearing closed.

 

[ZolaIII]

Those aren't bad sounding, but like the original Denon/Fostex models they have no isolation and leak a lot sound despite appearing closed.

The Creative Aurvana Live actually are exactly the same as Denon D1001 but cost one third of Denons. In a budget category it's hard to do better than that.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/Creative_AurvanaLive_photo_inside.jpg
Edit: Edifier also have some very cheap earbuds which actually are Foster reference designs (H/P 180 - 190 model's).

 

[maverickronin]

The Creative Aurvana Live actually are exactly the same as Denon D1001 but cost one third of Denons. In a budget category it's hard to do better than that.

IIRC those ones actually have isolation too.

 

[ZolaIII]

IIRC those ones actually have isolation too.

They leak a lot for closed design never the less as you stated before but I don't think that's still nowhere close to open design ones leakage.
Actual there's also a broadband isolation measurements there on inner fidelity. They (8 dB only) are 7~8 dB worser than other closed back one's in isolation usually are.

 

[marv]

May i ask a tech question? Since i could not decide yet what closed headphone to buy, i was playing around with my setup and i tried to plug my SE535 to my Liquid Spark/Hifime ESS9023 combo and i quite liked the sound and i noticed (not placebo) increase in clarity and tighter bass compared to my samsung exynos S9 where i always use it with - dont know why its noticeably clearer but i liked the sound, but the problem is if i turn the pot just a bit i can hear a hiss and i know that the SE535 is a sensitive iem - not wanting to buy an ifi iematch, I first tried connecting the shure to my old dac/amp combo - Denon DA300USB - I tried to turn the pot during music pause and there was no hiss - i was very happy but the strange thing is my SE535 sounded very dull with the Denon.. why so? its quiet no hiss with the Shure but was dull sounding.. it was very noticeable..
any explanation why with the LS/hifime combo it was really clear but with the potentially quiet denon it is dull sounding... what gives? could this be an impedance mismatch?

BTW my signal chain is spotify premium in laptop > Denon > SE535

thanks for any input

 

[maverickronin]

Probably differences in output impedance changing the frequency response of the Shures.

 

[Jimbob54]

Probably differences in output impedance changing the frequency response of the Shures.

Also, suspect far less headroom for sensitives on the LS than the Denon. More powerful. So you go from nothing, to lively and exuberant with hiss all between nothing and 10 o'clock?

 

[ZolaIII]

@marv explanation is quite easy but solution not so much. I don't know anything about that Denon so for "dull" sounding you need to find answer yourself. EMI rejection rate if IC's is usually stated as power supply rejection rate at 20 KHz and it goes up with low frequencies culminating there not to mention in most cases it's not even enough at stated 20 KHz to begin with. Smartphones have a lot of sources of EMI so it's more prominent there. Solution is shielding (silver, steel, graphite...). I did a shielding on a portable flask alike DAC Amp (TempoTec Sonata iDSD which by the way is a good choice for sensitive EMI's ES9018K2M + SABRE9601) pouting an approximate 3 mm of graphite (which is roughly a 63 Db in isolation) layer atop ICs & PCB lines in between. Results whose tight bass, better response to EQ & no clicks what so ever even in harshest conditions (mobile network scanning). I used a electronic isolation tape & plane HB graphite from a pencil & nail polish (1$ or even less all together). Did plane to do it properly with transformer varnish but leaved it as it is.

 

[marv]

Also, suspect far less headroom for sensitives on the LS than the Denon. More powerful. So you go from nothing, to lively and exuberant with hiss all between nothing and 10 o'clock?

The Denon has a weak amp, reason i bought the LS... with the LS turning the pot just a few millimeters from 0 gets loud... during music pause just at 9 o'clock the hiss is audible already

BTW here's a good link describing the denon including some pics of the interior:

https://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/info/Hi-Fi/Bancs-d-essai/Denon-DA-300USB-Japanese174996

 

[Jimbob54]

The Denon has a weak amp, reason i bought the LS... with the LS turning the pot just a few millimeters from 0 gets loud... during music pause just at 9 o'clock the hiss is audible already

BTW here's a good link describing the denon including some pics of the interior:

https://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/info/Hi-Fi/Bancs-d-essai/Denon-DA-300USB-Japanese174996

Do you have any way of attenuating the signal at pre LS? Volume on DAC or player software? 3 or 4 db reduction will give you a decent bit more dial to play with. Not sure what it will do with the hiss.

EDIT- hiss will probably be proportionately higher if you do as I say. But it doesnt hurt to try!

 

[marv]

Do you have any way of attenuating the signal at pre LS? Volume on DAC or player software? 3 or 4 db reduction will give you a decent bit more dial to play with. Not sure what it will do with the hiss.

EDIT- hiss will probably be proportionately higher if you do as I say. But it doesnt hurt to try!

Dac has no volume - its like a usb dongle

my computer volume is at 100% whisch is the way to go right and you regulate with LS pot? i will try to reduce computer volume at 50% and i will find out

 

[Jimbob54]

Dac has no volume - its like a usb dongle

my computer volume is at 100% whisch is the way to go right and you regulate with LS pot? i will try to reduce computer volume at 50% and i will find out

Try it- no harm in reducing source volume to suit needs . Technically might lose some bits- practically might make far more useable.