Hi, headphone buying advice

[marv]

Hello all..have been reading a lot and have been a member of various audio forums, but have been very comfortable reading posts here, as they are mostly backed by tests and experience. i have learned a lot.

First of all, i would like to humbly say that i have owned some headphones, but not really expensive ones and this may be my biggest headphone buy, thats why im respectfully seeking advice from the good people from ASR (like solderdude and amir) been reading a lot of your posts lately.

I have had also set up my car audio in the past mainly using focal speakers and Alpine HU, meaning to say i love good audio : )

but admittedly i have been out of the scene for quite some time and are just doing some reading lately and would like to upgrade my current listening setup

some headphones/iem i have owned in the past:

vmoda m100 ( nice bass but too much for me and lacks clarity for me)
ath m50x (there's something about the treble that i dont like, lacks finesse?)
superlux 668b (too lean for me/harsh) - gave to my son to use for his games
HD600 ( sold them not because i dont like - luv them but i was in an audio hiatus that time - still kicking myself)
d770 250ohm (accidentally broke trying to remove some lint on the driver membrane)
ATH ws55 (too bassy - gave them as a gift to a friend)
soundmagic e10 9gave to a friend - lacks detail for me)

headphones/iem current:
- status audio CB1 ( my daily driver (home)- these are cheap but i love the sound - detailed highs but grainy - prominent mids and tight bass if im describing them correctly - the sound is meaty) im sorry im not an audiophile - i just love good headphones and love listening music of all genres

- HD58x - My daily driver (open/home) i love the sound, what can i say? way better than the CB1

- MDR 7506 - love the detail but thin and lean for me - i use them to monitor dialogues and for voice over recording - great for speech - but not for music listening - fo me that is - i dont enjoy listening to music in them as much i enjoy with the CB1 - too analytical if the term is correct)

- sony MH1c - but i dont use them as often anymore

- Philips SHE3590 EQed - seldom used

- WF100xm3 EQed- in ear - for travelling - i like the noise cancelling and portability

- Shure SE535 - my main iem - owned them for ~3 years - i like the meaty sound - great mids but im getting bored with the rolled off highs - it lacks sparkle for me


i also have owned in the past:

Oppo HA 2SE - sold them ( i regretted it)
Topping NX1a
Littledot 1+ with rolled tubes - sold them when i sold my hd600
audioquest dragonfly black - gave to a friend


my current source set up:
im currently using Denon DA300USB connected to my MAudio AV40 monitors
Sony BDP S380 as CD player connected to the Denon
Liquid spark connected to hifime ess9023 as DAC- for headpone music listening connected to the laptop


Im planning to buy a pair of good upgrade headphone: my choices as i can get them here (Europe) for the same price - ~ 500 euros - some are used and also in your experience if they are worth the price they are asking for (Diminishing returns)

Ether CX - used almost new
Neumann NDH20 - brand new
Focal Elegia - brand new
meze 99 classic - ~ 300

For IEM im planning to get: Ety ER4Xr or ER4SR -

If you could kindly give me some buying advice?

among the headphones which should i get? I love detailed non piercing highs/prominent mids/tight clean bass - meaty non lean sounding - is this neutral? sorry for the lack of knowledge on audiophile terms

I also would like to upgrade my dac: thinking of getting of Topping D10 or KTB to pair with my liquid spark - should i also change my amp? to 789?

Will the Ety be an upgrade to my Se535? if yes ER4XR or ER4SR?

im currently listening for travel with my samsung S9 - spotify premium though i also have a sandisk clip zip as DAP

to summarize:

which headphone should i buy?
Should i buy the Ety if i want an upgrade from my SE535?
which dac should i buy?
should i upgrade my headphone amp?

i apologize for the long post.. any help would be greatly appreciated... im excited to read your replies

cheers,

marv

 

[maverickronin]

among the headphones which should i get? I love detailed non piercing highs/prominent mids/tight clean bass - meaty non lean sounding - is this neutral? sorry for the lack of knowledge on audiophile terms

Th Ether CX, Focal Elegia, and Meze 99 are all on meatier side. Never heard the Neumann though.

Will the Ety be an upgrade to my Se535? if yes ER4XR or ER4SR?

More of a side-grade. The Ety's will have have a more natural frequency response in upper mids and treble but less resolution and lower maximum clean volume than the Shures. Get the XR if you want a tasteful bass bost.

I also would like to upgrade my dac: thinking of getting of Topping D10 or KTB to pair with my liquid spark - should i also change my amp? to 789?

Unless you're looking for more features, or just want to know you have something transparent, you're probably fine with your current DAC and amp.

 

[marv]

Th Ether CX, Focal Elegia, and Meze 99 are all on meatier side. Never heard the Neumann though.

Thank you for the reply.. in your experience if you had to choose one? which one would you buy? truth is i havent heard any of these and dont have the chance to.. just wanted to know which one is "more bang for the buck"

More of a side-grade. The Ety's will have have a more natural frequency response in upper mids and treble but less resolution and lower maximum clean volume than the Shures. Get the XR if you want a tasteful bass bost.

Then i should stay with my shures then.. im happy with its bass... enough form me.. im just afraid of the method the Etys are inserted in the ear.. im sensitive to vaccum pulling the tips..it really hurts

Unless you're looking for more features, or just want to know you have something transparent, you're probably fine with your current DAC and amp.

Exactly what i wanted to confirm, is my dac and amp setup transparent enough?, i havent heard that many amp/dacs...the reason i chose the Hifime is that its the same dac used in the 02 amp/dac ..figured it was enough, but i also know that the dac ship is only half of the story, the implementation is equally important....though i like having a digital display but not really a need but more of a want.... if my setup is transparent enough then i will not upgrade them... i see no reason why.. id rather spend the money on headphones or elsewhere that would give me more for the money.

 

[maverickronin]

Thank you for the reply.. in your experience if you had to choose one? which one would you buy? truth is i havent heard any of these and dont have the chance to.. just wanted to know which one is "more bang for the buck"

Even though they're the cheapest of those three, the Meze seemed overpriced to me. Too many closed cup resonances which even some cheaper closed headphones actually mitigate properly.

My memory on the CX and the Elegia is a little more hazy. Going back to my listening notes I don't see anything decisive.

Then i should stay with my shures then.. im happy with its bass... enough form me.. im just afraid of the method the Etys are inserted in the ear.. im sensitive to vaccum pulling the tips..it really hurts

The other issue is how deep they go. The "ER" might as well stand for ear rape. It might be advisable to try one of their cheaper models fist and see if you can live with the fit. I had pair for a while but never god used to them. I can wear Shures or Westones all day but the Ety's just hurt after an hour or so.

Exactly what i wanted to confirm, is my dac and amp setup transparent enough?, i havent heard that many amp/dacs...the reason i chose the Hifime is that its the same dac used in the 02 amp/dac ..figured it was enough, but i also know that the dac ship is only half of the story, the implementation is equally important....though i like having a digital display but not really a need but more of a want.... if my setup is transparent enough then i will not upgrade them... i see no reason why.. id rather spend the money on headphones or elsewhere that would give me more for the money.

Actually that hifime name just rung a bell. Amir measured something else of theirs and it didn't do very well so a small DAC upgrade to a topping D10 or E30 may be in order. KTB is perfectly fine performance-wise, but unless you're into DIY and can make a case or mount for it it will would be better to go with a finished product.

All that said, upgrading the headphones will still probably make a bigger difference.

 

[marv]

My memory on the CX and the Elegia is a little more hazy. Going back to my listening notes I don't see anything decisive.

Can you recommend a closed headphone even not among my options?

Actually that hifime name just rung a bell. Amir measured something else of theirs and it didn't do very well so a small DAC upgrade to a topping D10 or E30 may be in order. KTB is perfectly fine performance-wise, but unless you're into DIY and can make a case or mount for it it will would be better to go with a finished product.

A Topping D10 maybe in order then

 

[JeffS7444]

I've linked to Sean Olive's articles before, but they're good ones:
https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2017/02/twirt-337-predicting-headphone-sound_17.html
Elsewhere, he has written of Harman International's headphone and IEM target frequency response curves. With the aid of MiniDSP products such as HA-DSP headphone amp and Ears measurement device combined with free Room Eq Wizard software, I've been able to measure, then generate a file which lets me approximate Harman's target response curve. And wow you would not believe how good some pleasant but rather boring products can sound once corrected. My worst performer? A deluxe multi-driver IEM which appears to have some interference between the drivers which can't really be corrected. On first listen, they're very impressive with powerful lows and sparkling highs, but with some recordings, the rather bumpy frequency response within the vocal range and higher frequencies can be almost painful to listen to. Whereas I was able to EQ my Fostex T50RP IIs to an almost perfect match to the target response (once the too-shallow ear pads were replaced, that is) and the results sound great. Even the original (single driver) Apple premium IEMs are greatly improved, not a subtle difference at all.

 

[maverickronin]

Can you recommend a closed headphone even not among my options?

Those are probably already the best choices for closed 'phones I've heard in that price range so it would mostly come down to preference. IIRC, the Elegia has a little darker tilt than the CX.

A used MrSpeakers/DCA Aeon 1 closed might work too. A little less bass and small soundstage than the CX but I think smoother treble.

 

[marv]

I've linked to Sean Olive's articles before, but they're good ones:
https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2017/02/twirt-337-predicting-headphone-sound_17.html
Elsewhere, he has written of Harman International's headphone and IEM target frequency response curves. With the aid of MiniDSP products such as HA-DSP headphone amp and Ears measurement device combined with free Room Eq Wizard software, I've been able to measure, then generate a file which lets me approximate Harman's target response curve. And wow you would not believe how good some pleasant but rather boring products can sound once corrected. My worst performer? A deluxe multi-driver IEM which appears to have some interference between the drivers which can't really be corrected. On first listen, they're very impressive with powerful lows and sparkling highs, but with some recordings, the rather bumpy frequency response within the vocal range and higher frequencies can be almost painful to listen to. Whereas I was able to EQ my Fostex T50RP IIs to an almost perfect match to the target response (once the too-shallow ear pads were replaced, that is) and the results sound great. Even the original (single driver) Apple premium IEMs are greatly improved, not a subtle difference at all.

Thank you, this is a good read. While I have EQed headphones in the past, and also my old car audio setup, my dilemma with equing headphones is that when I use them with other applications/devices the custom eq is not carried across applications? And most of the time system wide equalizers esp in mobile phones are not that robust

 

[marv]

Those are probably already the best choices for closed 'phones I've heard in that price range so it would mostly come down to preference. IIRC, the Elegia has a little darker tilt than the CX.

A used MrSpeakers/DCA Aeon 1 closed might work too. A little less bass and small soundstage than the CX but I think smoother treble.

I found a used DC Audio aeon 2 closed... Would that be better than the 2 options previously mentioned?

 

[maverickronin]

Thank you, this is a good read. While I have EQed headphones in the past, and also my old car audio setup, my dilemma with equing headphones is that when I use them with other applications/devices the custom eq is not carried across applications? And most of the time system wide equalizers esp in mobile phones are not that robust

The MiniDSP he recommended is actually a DAC/Amp combo which does the EQ in its external hardware so you can carry the EQ with you between most devices. The downside is that's another $325USD and last I checked I couldn't find any independent measurements to confirm the DAC and amp sections are up to snuff.

I found a used DC Audio aeon 2 closed... Would that be better than the 2 options previously mentioned?

I would take it. I actually just got one myself. It has a bit more bass than the 1 with a larger soundstage.

I didn't mention it before because it seemed out of your price range but if you found a good deal, go for it.

 

[Archsam]

I own both the Etymotic ER4-XR (having owned 2 older pairs of Etys before), and the Shure SE535.

Sound quality wise, without question the ER4-XR sounded better. More detail, more realistic, and has satisfyingly tight bass. Some say they are light on bass but I think they are accurate if slightly on the lean side if you listen to electronica . Bass is the only area the SE535 does better IMO. However the Shure's treble are too recessed for my taste, and I am someone who is sensitive to bright sounding gears.

I bought the SE535 as a temporary replacement when I had to send the ER4-XR to America for repair. FYI if you live outside the US it is not worth sending them in for out-of-warranty service - the shipping cost + duty when they returned to me in the UK was A LOT MORE than the actual repair cost. Sigh.

One good thing I have to say about the Shure though is their fit and comfort. Once you learn how to insert them and loop the cable over and behind your ears they disappeared. With the Etymotic the cable causes microphonic noise when they rub against you while you are on the move, and that is very annoying. So if I were out and on the move I will grab the SE535 every time.

Edit: some people online suggested looping the Etymotic cable up and behind your ear, Shure style, to cure the microphonic noise.
Don't do it! Over time you will break the connection in the cable where you bend the cable around your ear. That was what prompted me to send it back to America for out-of-warranty service... should have just bought a new cable instead.

 

[marv]

I own both the Etymotic ER4-XR (having owned 2 older pairs of Etys before), and the Shure SE535.

Sound quality wise, without question the ER4-XR sounded better. More detail, more realistic, and has satisfyingly tight bass. Some say they are light on bass but I think they are accurate if slightly on the lean side if you listen to electronica . Bass is the only area the SE535 does better IMO. However the Shure's treble are too recessed for my taste, and I am someone who is sensitive to bright sounding gears.

I bought the SE535 as a temporary replacement when I had to send the ER4-XR to America for repair. FYI if you live outside the US it is not worth sending them in for out-of-warranty service - the shipping cost + duty when they returned to me in the UK was A LOT MORE than the actual repair cost. Sigh.

One good thing I have to say about the Shure though is their fit and comfort. Once you learn how to insert them and loop the cable over and behind your ears they disappeared. With the Etymotic the cable causes microphonic noise when they rub against you while you are on the move, and that is very annoying. So if I were out and on the move I will grab the SE535 every time.

Edit: some people online suggested looping the Etymotic cable up and behind your ear, Shure style, to cure the microphonic noise.
Don't do it! Over time you will break the connection in the cable where you bend the cable around your ear. That was what prompted me to send it back to America for out-of-warranty service... should have just bought a new cable instead.

Thank you for the valuable insight... im so used to the fit of the Shure that it might push me away from the Etys after buying them.. money wasted...

 

[Archsam]

Thank you for the valuable insight... im so used to the fit of the Shure that it might push me away from the Etys after buying them.. money wasted...

I got into Etymotics years ago when I was looking for the maximum bang for the buck in detail and clarity, and I was not disappointed. If this is the sound you are looking for you should give them a try.

I read that the latest line of cheaper Etymotics (ER3 / ER2) sounded almost as good as the ER4, especially the ER3 which also uses a single balanced armature driver as the ER4. Some reviewers found their sound is almost indistinguishable to the ER4. If you want to give them a try maybe the ER3 is an option.

The deep insert tips are not for everyone. One workaround (what I used to do) is to put on aftermarket foam tips e.g. Comply tips. They are very comfortable but expensive (around £20 for 3 pairs). These will last maybe a month per pair. In the end they got too expensive but luckily I got used to the triple flange tips.

If I have the money to spend on IEM I will love to try the Shure SE846 or Ultimate Ear 18 Pro....

 

[marv]

I got into Etymotics years ago when I was looking for the maximum bang for the buck in detail and clarity, and I was not disappointed. If this is the sound you are looking for you should give them a try.

I read that the latest line of cheaper Etymotics (ER3 / ER2) sounded almost as good as the ER4, especially the ER3 which also uses a single balanced armature driver as the ER4. Some reviewers found their sound is almost indistinguishable to the ER4. If you want to give them a try maybe the ER3 is an option.

The deep insert tips are not for everyone. One workaround (what I used to do) is to put on aftermarket foam tips e.g. Comply tips. They are very comfortable but expensive (around £20 for 3 pairs). These will last maybe a month per pair. In the end they got too expensive but luckily I got used to the triple flange tips.

If I have the money to spend on IEM I will love to try the Shure SE846 or Ultimate Ear 18 Pro....

Thanks i will look into it

 

[marv]

BTW, are Dan Clark Audio's products durable? say no QC issues? known problems? im thinking if i get one and encounter a problem, that would be a big problem, esp here in europe... thats why im thinking hard on whether to lean on europe based manufacturers like Focal/ Beyer/Neumann

regarding the Neumann NDH 20... i have read good reviews about it.... also watched some youtube reviews

 

[maverickronin]

BTW, are Dan Clark Audio's products durable? say no QC issues? known problems? im thinking if i get one and encounter a problem, that would be a big problem, esp here in europe... thats why im thinking hard on whether to lean on europe based manufacturers like Focal/ Beyer/Neumann

Definitely a valid concern.

Regarding DCA, I haven't heard about the kind if consistency issues that Audeze has had or the HiFiMan durability/longevity issues. That said, I actually just sent my new Aeon 2 back for an exchange because of a cosmetic issue.

The Elegia are also a top teir closed headphone so not a bad choice at all.

Beyers all have (to me anyway) a large and very annoying peak in the high treble which gives everything some degree of metallic timbre.

For some reason Sennheiser doesn't have any good closed choices between the HD569 ($150USD) and the HD820 (2K+!).

 

[Jimbob54]

Th Ether CX, Focal Elegia, and Meze 99 are all on meatier side. Never heard the Neumann though.



More of a side-grade. The Ety's will have have a more natural frequency response in upper mids and treble but less resolution and lower maximum clean volume than the Shures. Get the XR if you want a tasteful bass bost.



Unless you're looking for more features, or just want to know you have something transparent, you're probably fine with your current DAC and amp.

I'll just add to this .

The CX are great but the pads dont suit big ears and the cable is super scratchy and microphonic. Both are replaceable though.
I wouldnt bother upgrading your headphone amp
Dont buy the Meze classic, wait for the Drop version (Meze Noir), its exactly the same apart from some accessories for $200. And then, I really find them odd, if Im honest. EDIT- I think its on Drop- but I dont think you are US based so duties and taxes might make the classic not much worse price wise. Still wouldnt bother.
Have a look at the Ety 2SE - the Ety fit is divisive to say the least. the 2SE are dynamic drivers, not BA like the 4's but (I believe ) super accurate. Try before the 4s.

 

[marv]

For some reason Sennheiser doesn't have any good closed choices between the HD569 ($150USD) and the HD820 (2K+!).

True that. but Senn owns Neumann... so i dont know if it qualifies as a mid tier in their lineup.... at least in a brand that they also own

Im looking hard at the Elegia and Neumann

 

[marv]

I'll just add to this .

The CX are great but the pads dont suit big ears and the cable is super scratchy and microphonic. Both are replaceable though.
I wouldnt bother upgrading your headphone amp
Dont buy the Meze classic, wait for the Drop version (Meze Noir), its exactly the same apart from some accessories for $200. And then, I really find them odd, if Im honest. EDIT- I think its on Drop- but I dont think you are US based so duties and taxes might make the classic not much worse price wise. Still wouldnt bother.
Have a look at the Ety 2SE - the Ety fit is divisive to say the least. the 2SE are dynamic drivers, not BA like the 4's but (I believe ) super accurate. Try before the 4s.

the 2se is more enticing pricewise : )

 

[Jimbob54]

the 2se is more enticing pricewise : )

Massively so! Take some juice though