Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

This product measures very well. I simply cannot use Audessey for room correction I have owned many AVR's over the years and never was satisfied with the correction. I have concluded you must have the processing of a computer. I love Anthem's correction. Dirac hopefully also solves the problems. I think Anthem and Dirac will intimidate many users. I have been around the block a few times and was a little confused with Anthem. Last night I watched a movie and my right ear with the perforated eardrum started hurting Never a good sign. Last movie I attended was painful. I found out I had inadvertently turned off room correction during a comparison test. It is just not subwoofer integration. Everything sounds better Maybe that is an effect is subwoofer integration. I suspect main woofer performance is also improved. Maybe more.

 

[Dj7675]

This product measures very well. I simply cannot use Audessey for room correction I have owned many AVR's over the years and never was satisfied with the correction

Have you ever used Audyssey XT32 with the App? I just ask because I had used Audyssey in the past before the App came out and felt that both preset curves didn’t sound very good. To me they sounded thin/harsh. DEQ and raising sub trim helped somewhat with the bass but still never sounded right to me. With the app you have control over the curve, frequency response cutoff, and turning of midrange compensation. The biggest problem with Audyssey before the app was the flat target curve in my opinion.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Have you ever used Audyssey XT32 with the App? I just ask because I had used Audyssey in the past before the App came out and felt that both preset curves didn’t sound very good. To me they sounded thin/harsh. DEQ and raising sub trim helped somewhat with the bass but still never sounded right to me. With the app you have control over the curve, frequency response cutoff, and turning of midrange compensation. The biggest problem with Audyssey pre app was the flat target curve in my opinion.

I have not used XT32. I was burned out. Take a leap and buy an Anthem. Not cheap and Amir trashed the 520. I bought anyway and will not look back. Anthem room correction is stunning. On a side note, Amir, word correction does weird things to your name. It is becoming weirder. I think it is a conspiracy by "them. "

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Maybe I should turn it off. But feature is entertaining.

 

[Dj7675]

I have not used XT32. I was burned out. Take a leap and buy an Anthem. Not cheap and Amir trashed the 520. I bought anyway and will not look back. Anthem room correction is stunning. On a side note, Amir, word correction does weird things to your name. It is becoming weirder. I think it is a conspiracy by "them. "

I had an MRX510 and used the anthem room correction and found it to do a good job as well. I think when used properly the automated EQ systems are more alike than different as long as you can control the target curve. It is a bonus if they can do multiple subs.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I had an MRX510 and used the anthem room correction and found it to do a good job as well. I think when used properly the automated EQ systems are more alike than different as long as you can control the target curve. It is a bonus if they can do multiple subs.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[Dj7675]

I respectfully disagree.

No worries. Just note that XT32 is quite a lot better than prior versions and the app makes it quite good. Glad you are enjoying your MRX520. That is what it is all about.

 

[bobbooo]

But do we know that the 4500 actually matches Amir's test results for the 3600?

No we don't. In fact, according to the measurements on audio.com.pl, the 4500 is only marginally better than the 2400, with the latter having slightly more odd-order harmonic distortion, except the 3rd order peak which is actually higher on the 4500 (see below).

X2400H:

X4500H:

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

No worries. Just note that XT32 is quite a lot better than prior versions and the app makes it quite good. Glad you are enjoying your MRX520. That is what it is all about.

I hope so I really do.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

My perforated right ear drum painfully detects resonance. Maybe the X32 would solve the problem. I don't know if movie theaters use room correction. It is painful for me. Not a fair comparison. My $350 Roku bedroom TV has better contrast than the last movie I saw at AMC. No wonder they are on their knees. One month interruption and need a Chapter 11.

 

[stod]

My perforated right ear drum painfully detects resonance. Maybe the X32 would solve the problem. I don't know if movie theaters use room correction. It is painful for me. Not a fair comparison. My $350 Roku bedroom TV has better contrast than the last movie I saw at AMC. No wonder they are on their knees. One month interruption and need a Chapter 11.

Tinnitus does the same thing.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Tinnitus does the same thing.[/QUOT
Good friend did body work 30 years has that. He can't hear anything.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Maybe a blessing

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Right ear deafness really helped with my exes in the car when driving in USA. No use in Great Britain, Australia or Japan.

 

[peng]

It is more than measured fidelity. There is no reason to have internal amps whaling while you are using an external amp. They generate a lot of heat and will likely contribute to earlier failure of the AVR. It is just wrong to have them working when there is nothing hooked up to them. It is not like these AVRs have ample cooling to begin with.

In addition, disabling them will leave more power for the other channels. Power supply capacity limits how much power those channels get and letting unused internal amps suck power makes no sense.

Great point, I would add that they should do what they have done with the x8500H so that the user can select which channel to disconnect. Some people would want to have the center channel disconnected too but may want to use the surround and height channels for those speakers that may not be as far from their listening positions and/or as hard to drive. The switches (IC chips) and relays are already there, its just software, it may even be possible for them to offer a FW update, for $20, more or less.

May be ASR can start a petition?

 

[peng]

It's really hard to comprehend how this receiver at half the price of the Marantz AV7705 pre-processor reviewed recently (with 9 amps thrown in for good measure) can have a SINAD in pre-out mode of 99 vs 75. It just shows every model release that was re-engineered in some way has a chance of a good or bad result. Probably down to the individuals in the teams assigned to the development and their abilities. You would think though that there would be and over arching testing/release protocol to ensure consistency across the price ranges??

I can think of two possible reasons:

1) HDAMs add THD+N, hence slightly worse SINAD. (It may help in providing extra buffer, but it bound to add distortions, however insignificant if done right). Note: Consider the pre-amp section signal path only, the difference between the two is just the HDAM buffer stage that has a gain of 1, and is situated right at the end of the pre-amp output. The output of the HDAM is connected to the power amp input, until it is disconnected for Amir's measurements.

2) Parts tolerances, expressed this in %, we are comparing the difference in 3 rd decimal point, so I would think at least part of the difference could be a case of one DUT (3600 in this case) had parts in it that had distortions closer to the minimum while the other (7705) had it closer to the maximum. @amirm , would you buy this theory, I mean at least a "possibility"?

 

[peng]

What would there to be read? Nothing in this thread applies to the actual market for AVRs. Most of the people buying these Denon units want a single box that will power all their speakers and have the features(Atmos, # of channels, etc) that they need.

Adding cable and box clutter to make inaudible numbers go higher doesn't really come into the conversation. The prepro market is much smaller because the number of people willing to add separates and worry about things like SINAD is much smaller, that's all there is to it.

That might change one day if and when active speakers are the "default" for HT use, but they are currently not.

If I understood carlob right, I think he meant for Denon to offer both. So those who want an AVR can opt for the AVR-X3600H and those who prefer a prepro only can opt for the AVC (or AVP-X3600H) priced at say $300 less. The AVP-X3600H would have the 9 amp boards and larger/heavy power supply missing. We both know Denon would never do it because Marantz would then file for divorce, and Sound United would then back off.

 

[peng]

Agreed - I understand that. To clarify, I personally (with a mixed use system) am much more forgiving of the surround sound ultimate fidelity as long as stereo music listening is a good as is reasonable to expect from a multiple trick pony.

Agreed, actually unless you use the multi-channel stereo mode, the surround channels will most likely not suffer because the X3500H performed almost as good as the AV7705 at 1.2 V, or even up to just below 1.5 V. I can't see too many people's surround channels needing more than 1 V, say 90% of the time while watching movies or listening to 7.1 SACDs.

 

[peng]

No we don't. In fact, according to the measurements on audio.com.pl, the 4500 is only marginally better than the 2400, with the latter having slightly more odd-order harmonic distortion, except the 3rd order peak which is actually higher on the 4500 (see below).

X2400H:

X4500H:

I said it before and would say it now again.., there's something not right about that site's measurements. They look weird, incomplete and even if theirs are all good, there is no reason why the X2400H would not measure as good and the X4500H as they both have the same circuitry and parts for the preamp section. We have just already seen the 7705, 8805, X3500H, X3600H, all performed similarly well (SINAD for example) if all measured at the output level (pre-outs) that they are comfortable with, say 1 to 1.5 V.

I do trust ASR, AH and HTHF's the first two use the renounced AP measuring device, HTFH used to be I believe they now use something else. I still trust them because obviously Dr. Rich trust them.

By the way, if and when that site measures the X3600H, you will see that the results will be about the same as the X2400H too.
The X4500H should measure about the same as, slightly better, or slightly worse than the X3600H. They have the same circuitry and parts, the only difference in the preamp section is the DDSC HD and AL32 marketing gadgets, that will have no effects in direct mode, and/or when using analog inputs. If they work as Denon claimed, it may help Amir getting a slightly better graph in the jitter measurements.

Oh, the X4500H amp section should, and will of course measured better than the X3600H.

 

[Bear123]

Agreed, actually unless you use the multi-channel stereo mode, the surround channels will most likely not suffer because the X3500H performed almost as good as the AV7705 at 1.2 V, or even up to just below 1.5 V. I can't see too many people's surround channels needing more than 1 V, say 90% of the time while watching movies or listening to 7.1 SACDs.

One of the better values in external amps available that seems to measure exceptionally well is the Monoprice Monolith. Audioholics tested it to reach full rated power with 1.43 volts.....around 220/330 watts 8/4 ohms and much higher burst. There aren't many speakers that can handle any more power than this. Despite the AH test, would be nice to see one tested here.