Denon sure has loyal followers. I provided warranty service Denon for some years. The company was a dream to work with in a good way but the product was Sony Sony Sony... Nothing special but a loyal following of customers.
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Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review
- Thread starter amirm
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Yes, once you assigned the front left and right to pre out, it stays that way regardless. The only trick is that in order to "assign" them you have to select 11 channel processing.
I believe it doesn't but it'd be great if Amir could verify that for sure. I use ECO mode to keep the AVRs temp down when listening in stereo feeding a Parasound A21.
Maybe I’m missing something, but my Yamaha RX-A3060 (and all its future incarnations) can do this. I have a 4 channel amp handling ceiling speakers, but I could have assigned only 2 channels, but I wanted to take a bigger load off the AVR. Regardless, this Denon costs less and probably outperforms the Yamaha’s. Very impressive unit.
audioBliss
Active Member
I'm missing a graph of this nature. A lot of people would look to use the pre-outs on this. This paired with some hypex amps would make for a descent setup.
Denon has not made a prepro (except the pro gear) since the $7,500 fully balanced end to end AVP-A1HDCI.
I would love to see their integrated amp measured. 65 lbs, 50 WPC, for only ¥ 780,000, not bad it you go by $/lb but ridiculous for $/W.
Marantz on the other hand seemed to have drop their price, their flag ship PM-10 (200 WPC) is listed for only ¥ 600,000, US$7,999, better buy from Japan. Can't help but wonder if the measurements can justify the high price and low output of such integrated amps made by the same D&M, still owned by Sound United I would imagine.https://translate.googleusercontent...ted_ap&usg=ALkJrhhL3F1kMM96l7fGfmAqEB3LcJGkfw
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I agree. @amirm needs to get a young intern to pass the torch in the next decade or two when he finally decides to retire.
As I mentioned before, Marantz has already confirmed pre out is not affected by ECO being "On". I can search and provide a link if you like.
I have also measured the preout with and without ECO on so I know it for a fact. It only affects the internal power amp.
Found it, see post#6:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...86-denon-s-eco-mode-what-does-do-exactly.html
Response By Email (NJ Customer Service & Support) (10/11/2016 12:08 PM)
Hi Michael,
When ECO Mode is used, voltage for the amp stage decreases about 1/3 and amplifier stage energy loss decreases about 1/6 compared to ECO Mode being OFF.
It is recommend when using external amplification to leave ECO Mode set to ON. This will reduce power consumption to less than 70W.
When using ECO Mode ON at lower volume levels (under 45 Absolute) power consumption is about 1/2 as compared to leaving ECO Mode OFF. This is useful if using the AVR at night and you do not want to disturb others.
When using ECO Mode Auto, the circuit will control the power supply voltage by a relay. If the volume level is more than 45 Absolute the circuit will cut off. If the volume is less than 45 Absolute the circuit will switch on automatically. If listening at the threshold level (45) you will hear the relay clicking on and off frequently. Voltage for the amp stage does not change here, so power consumption would be the same as normal.
Thank You,
D+M Custom Install
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It's surprising still how hot the AVR gets even with ECO on (not surprising I suppose with 9 amps idling). I imagine it'd be feasible for them to implement turning the amps off in stereo pre-out mode. I'm sure that'd be a great selling feature many would appreciate.
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I did go that route. After I upgraded to the 8805 I never really felt that my system improved audibly at at all. I was curious to see what the testing numbers would show, and when they were published it confirmed what I was thinking. From there, it came down to the only thing it offered was 2 more channels of processing that I did not require in my system, so I kept an eye on this newer model jumped when i found it on sale. Still very happy with how it sounds and used the money on more worthwhile projects!
I cannot imagine difference to be audible: noise is quite low so it would be masked by ambient noise and distortion is also quite low and it would be masked by speaker's distortion.
If you measured the temperature you would see that it wasn't that warm, certainly well below the set point for the build in fans. That's why I always put at least one fan on top of such devices. The equivalent SR6014 will be slightly warmer because it has the extra buffer stage, the HDAM modules.
I hope you get a good price for the 8805 though. I kept the 8801 and used it in one of my two channel systems.
I think the 8500 may measure a touch better than the 3600 with the FL/FR disconnected as Amir has done. The difference is, the 8500 allows you to disconnect all 13 internal amps so it is a legit competitor of the 8805 if you don't need balanced I/Os and it will likely measure better than the 8805 in THD+N, DR, and IMD because it doesn't have the HDAMs. It has the same DAC as the 8805 but its FR should be better because unlike Marantz, as far as I can tell they didn't use that "super slow" filter, so wouldn't pump ultrasonic either.
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I only lost a relatively small amount when I sold it thankfully
Bear123
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You think the HDAM of Marantz will actually result in worse measured performance compared to equivalent Denon models? I was actually wondering if the Marantz versions would measure better because of the HDAM(not because I'm aware of any specific technical advantage, but because Marantz markets HDAM as a feature that offer superior fidelity)
maty
Major Contributor
In Europe, the best price of Marantz SR6014 I find: € 1,099 + shipping
https://www.son-video.com/article/h...teurs-amplis-home-cinema/marantz/sr-6014-noir
Bear123
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Out of curiosity, what other components would one have to add to the Benchmark DAC and amp to give the bass management, speaker eq, and sub eq capability that would be necessary to match the fidelity of the Denon X3600 based system? Without this, there would be no comparison on sound quality. Also(and perhaps more importantly), what would the resulting measured signal of these addition(s) be compared to the Denon?
I always wonder if the HDAMs would not increase distortions, because it is an unity gain buffer stage placed right at the end of the preamp signal chain. So logically, anything that contributed to distortions would still be there and the HDAM will undoubtedly add its own distortions, however tiny, resulting in a theoretically possible and likely higher distortions, all else being equal.
The I read Dr. Rich's comment in the hometheaterhifi.com's review and he seemed to be alluding to the same idea. If you are busy, just read the paragraph before the conclusions, where he wrote:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/processors/marantz-av8805-processor-review/
"Harmonic distortion has not improved from the AV8802 to the AV8805 as was expected from the new chips. The change in the worst-case THD specification between the chips used in the AV8802 and AV8805 points to a 50% distortion reduction. We know the distortion is not from the AKM AK4490 DAC since the THD increased as we changed the output level from 2VRMS to 4VRMS with the volume control.
It is possible the HDAM discrete circuits past the new analog ICs are the dominant distortion source. The only way to find out is to open up the case and start probing internal boards which is not something we do here at Secrets."
Now if you remove those unity gain HDAM buffer amps and the balanced I/Os, the 8805's signal chain would be virtually identical to the 8500 and even the 3600's, at least in block diagram form. Obviously the 3600 has the lower grade AK4458 DAC chip too. The other major difference is the DAC filter selection. Marantz chose the slow roll off filter, causing their models FR to drop off early and lost >2 dB at 20 kHz.
