Why Audiophiles Are Shopping for Vintage Turntables

[Sal1950]

pretty sure there are also subjective audiophiles that yammer about the superiority of vinyl - but we don't listen to those here!

Ever read Stereophile and a guy aka Mikey? LOL

Lots to unpack in the thread - but as a vinyl aficionado and a reasonable person, just wanted to point out a couple of things:

Very nice post, thanks Victor

 

[watchnerd]

Responding to old comment - but this one made me think - Laserdisc is something that I knew of but did not really know, so I was actually surprised to recently learn that Laserdiscs were analogue! - I am so used to equate optical with digital that never even occurred to me this was possible. Also learned that the characteristics of LaserDisc audio were not fantastic, roughly equivalent to FM Stereo sound - which makes sense, to save bandwidth for video.

But that got me thinking - it is interesting to imagine an alternate history where some company decided to ditch video and turn LaserDisc into the ultimate analogue reproduction technology - solving many issues of both vinyl and reel-to-reel. Now imagine that it was a success - wonder what the audio world would look like now.


v

You could revive it as an optical analogue audiophile format today.

If R2R decks can be resurrected from the dead and sold for $10K with mods today, I bet you could convince some audiophile journalist that Laserdisc is the best analog format evar....

 

[Victor Martell]

You could revive it as an optical analogue audiophile format today.

If R2R decks can be resurrected from the dead and sold for $10K with mods today, I bet you could convince some audiophile journalist that Laserdisc is the best analog format evar....

Indeed - and that would definitely be a good thing - will never happen - but remember analogue is just different, if you happen to like it, well something that could solve the problems of vinyl and that non-plus-ultra of analogue formats, the 15 ips reel-to-reel tape, could be great. Would need to ditch the video for the bandwidth, though .But that is just idle speculation and a pipe dream. Digital fans need not to worry.

And it would not be just for audiophools and/or for shill journos. Remember, like I mentioned in a previous post, we like analogue because.. well, because we like it. Or because is analogue. Us reasonable analogue fans do not think is better. It is different though and we just like it. Yes, making the point again because, 1) this forum makes me nervous 2) wanted to make clear that we are not deluding ourselves but also we do not need to justify (that much, at least) a personal choice. Way more fun than tinkering with motorcycles!

v

 

[Sal1950]

Remember, like I mentioned in a previous post, we like analogue because.. well, because we like it. Or because is analogue. Us reasonable analogue fans do not think is better. It is different though and we just like it. Yes, making the point again because, 1) this forum makes me nervous 2) wanted to make clear that we are not deluding ourselves but also we do not need to justify (that much, at least) a personal choice.

Kind of like enjoying washing clothes on a scrub-board at the rivers edge and beating them on a rock to pre-dry before hanging. He-ll that's the way great-great-grandma used to do it and it gives you that warm and fuzzy nostalgic feeling.

 

[Victor Martell]

Kind of like enjoying washing clothes on a scrub-board at the rivers edge and beating them on a rock to pre-dry before hanging. He-ll that's the way great-great-grandma used to do it and it gives you that warm and fuzzy nostalgic feeling.

Is it? Well, just like proper vinyl, comedy is hard. Yes, just like the cartoon that pops out in every thread about it, vinyl is inconvenient. Just like your very impressive setup, @Sal1950 - beautiful indeed, and the object of my envy - and yet (to really be objective) also extremely inconvenient against the beautiful simplicity of iPhone + bluetooth earbuds.

That said, unless you are a vintage aficionado, higher end modern turntables and phono preamps are leaps and bounds more advanced that even the ones in the early to mid 80s, when CDs came in just as the DD turntable was perfected. While changing carts is a chore, is something that I don't do THAT often. And a full cleaning session happens in one sitting whenever I get new records. That aside effort is similar to that of CD playing.

I am looking both at my new washing and drying system (too advanced to be just "machines") and to my turntable - they are both the best and most modern you can get for what I spent on them.

BTW - props not only on your system but also your cables - I also use monoprice cables and it was my favourite troll at Computer Audiophile to jump in with a hearty recommendation for Monoprice cables, especially for those people inquiring about $10K USB cables.

v

 

[Sal1950]

Is it? Well, just like proper vinyl, comedy is hard.

Just meant to be good natured teasing Victor, no offense intended.
I loved the fact that my last turntable had interchangable tonearms. You could keep the cartridge all set up and aligned with only a reset of the tracking force weight required. The factory tonearm was very light and complimented high compliance MM cartridges very well. I had a couple others I had installed some weighting material inside to make them a better match to low compliance MC's. It all seemed to work out very well.

 

[MattHooper]

Kind of like enjoying washing clothes on a scrub-board at the rivers edge and beating them on a rock to pre-dry before hanging. He-ll that's the way great-great-grandma used to do it and it gives you that warm and fuzzy nostalgic feeling.

Or riding an antiquated two-wheeled open-air vehicle when so many other more new, advanced and practical options abound. Like you, I just don't understand people who enjoy hanging on to outdated technologies.

 

[MattHooper]

2) We do not delude ourselves - specs and measurements do not lie - digital is objectively better than vinyl.

Yep.

We just made a lifestyle choice because we like to do it. Matter of personal choice

Yep.

yet I consider weekend motorcycle tinkering dumb.

Indeed. I have motorcycle-loving friends and I have to just shake my head. Why in the *world* would they bother riding a dangerous old two-wheeled technology, vastly less safe should they ever be involved in a vehicle collision, and open to the elements - wind, rain - unable to be driven in snow - when you can ride in newfangled vehicles called "cars" which are safer, entirely enclosed, etc. And I don't want to hear any of the bogus rationalizations about "sense of freedom" "feeling the road" "enjoying the open air" and all that hipster stuff! (I hope the point is obvious in it's sarcasm. Frankly, though I do not like motorcycles myself, I completely understand why my motorcycle rider friends love them. I just came from dinner with my pal who is the editor of Canada's leading motorcycle magazine - he's always showing me his latest ride).

I do not try to convince everyone to move to vinyl,

Same here. I'd never try to remotely push anyone towards vinyl. It can be great. It can be a pain in the ass. If someone else has their own motivation to get in to it, that's great. I have no desire to evangelize; only to explain my own reasons for enjoying it and to explain that others share similar motivations.

But, really, this is generally a very reasonable and open-minded forum, and the vast majority of members I think understand that some other members get a kick out of vinyl, even if they themselves don't care for it.

 

[Sal1950]

Or riding an antiquated two-wheeled open-air vehicle when so many other more new, advanced and practical options abound. Like you, I just don't understand people who enjoy hanging on to outdated technologies.

View attachment 52301

When did you hear about a big revival of riding 100 year old motorcycles or last see one going down the street?
They're only seen in museums where they belong.
Try as you might Matt, your analogy does not compute. ROTFLMAO

 

[Victor Martell]

I loved the fact that my last turntable had interchangeable tonearms. You could keep the cartridge all set up and aligned

Nice! - And to be fair, from my own observations, the most time people spent back in the first vinyl era dealing with vinyl, the more unlikely to return to it. I only collected from 1979 to 1982 during the first vinyl era and I was only an 8 year old kid... so while I had quite a few records, I never properly learned how to care for them and my gear was not really great. So when coming back, I had a chance to do it right.

Just meant to be good natured teasing Victor, no offense intended.

I did sound a little bit thin skinned - ah, well, as per one of my posts above, I was up at 4:00 listening to music and right now back at it, instead of sleeping... which I should be doing.

v

 

[Wombat]

Or riding an antiquated two-wheeled open-air vehicle when so many other more new, advanced and practical options abound. Like you, I just don't understand people who enjoy hanging on to outdated technologies.

View attachment 52301

Lower photo could be Sal.

 

[Sal1950]

Lower photo could be Sal. View attachment 52302

I'm not THAT old. LOL

 

[MattHooper]

Try as you might Matt, your analogy does not compute. ROTFLMAO

Speaking of false analogies...let's remember the jokey post I was responding to.

When did you hear about a big revival of riding 100 year old motorcycles or last see one going down the street?

When did you hear about the big revival of "washing clothes on a scrub-board at the rivers edge and beating them on a rock to pre-dry before hanging?"

 

[Wombat]

Sal, do you still use Pomade?

 

[BDWoody]

Indeed. I have motorcycle-loving friends and I have to just shake my head. Why in the *world* would they bother riding a dangerous old two-wheeled technology, vastly less safe should they ever be involved in a vehicle collision, and open to the elements - wind, rain - unable to be driven in snow -

We've covered this...

Because it's fun.

Not fun for you? Sorry...

 

[anmpr1]

If R2R decks can be resurrected from the dead and sold for $10K with mods today, I bet you could convince some audiophile journalist that Laserdisc is the best analog format evar....

I know you are being facetious, and I understand what you are getting at, but in practice this would not happen because one of the appeals, perhaps the greatest appeal of records/tape was its visual-haptic dimension, apart from any aural or hearing sensation. Also, the ritual. The ritual was a very important thing.

Laserdisc is essentially a black box, like a CD or DVD player. They were large, bulky, and visually undistinguished. No ritual at all.

Open reel is even 'cooler' than records in the 'look at me' department, but not nearly as friendly as record playing, a hobby that can be afforded by most people to one degree or another should they want to do it. Also, turntables are relatively easy to maintain, lasting a long time. Open reel decks have always been money funnels requiring mucho maintenance. Open reel tape is through the roof price-wise. Unlike old records, old tape is more miss than hit.

Ritual-wise, nothing beats open reel, though. The joy of buying leaderless tape and then adding your own white leader; splicing/editing with your Gibson Girl (mostly if you used the twice as expensive half-track format); baking reels in your oven when you discovered your tape sticking/squealing; finding out that your machine had been eating your tape when you walked into the kitchen for a sandwich, then having to manually pull off the twisted sections; demagnetizing (bulk and heads); cleaning heads with your Maxell or Teac head cleaning kit; realizing you loaded the tape on backwards or twisted it when you threaded the reel... I mean, what can compare to that?

 

[Robin L]

I know you are being facetious, and I understand what you are getting at, but in practice this would not happen because one of the appeals, perhaps the greatest appeal of records/tape was its visual-haptic dimension, apart from any aural or hearing sensation. Also, the ritual. The ritual was a very important thing.

Laserdisc is essentially a black box, like a CD or DVD player. They were large, bulky, and visually undistinguished. No ritual at all.

Open reel is even 'cooler' than records in the 'look at me' department, but not nearly as friendly as record playing, a hobby that can be afforded by most people to one degree or another should they want to do it. Also, turntables are relatively easy to maintain, lasting a long time. Open reel decks have always been money funnels requiring mucho maintenance. Open reel tape is through the roof price-wise. Unlike old records, old tape is more miss than hit.

Ritual-wise, nothing beats open reel, though. The joy of buying leaderless tape and then adding your own white leader; splicing/editing with your Gibson Girl (mostly if you used the twice as expensive half-track format); baking reels in your oven when you discovered your tape sticking/squealing; finding out that your machine had been eating your tape when you walked into the kitchen for a sandwich, then having to manually pull off the twisted sections; demagnetizing (bulk and heads); cleaning heads with your Maxell or Teac head cleaning kit; realizing you loaded the tape on backwards or twisted it when you threaded the reel... I mean, what can compare to that?

View attachment 52326

When I was working with a Tascam 32, I was shocked at how bad it sounded. I know that better decks than that exist, I know they sound better. But as a tool for capturing and editing audio, r to r sucks.

 

[anmpr1]

When I was working with a Tascam 32, I was shocked at how bad it sounded. I know that better decks than that exist, I know they sound better. But as a tool for capturing and editing audio, r to r sucks.

There were many variables with tape. For an interactive experience nothing beat open reel. LOL

Keeping your recorder optimal? Not a simple task, but a necessary one if you cared about live recording. To keep it in perspective, below is a link to an article by the late Bill Vermillion--recording and radio engineer. An important guy in the Florida music making scene--a man I recall fondly. In his review Bill discusses:

1. Physical head alignment (azimuth alignment)
2. Playback level
3. High frequency playback response
4. Bias adjustment
5. Record level
6. Record high frequency response
7. Low frequency playback

It's worth a glance if only for historical purposes.

http://recordist.com/ampex/docs/align/aligndek.txt

 

[MattHooper]

We've covered this...

Because it's fun.

Not fun for you? Sorry...

 

[MattHooper]

When I was working with a Tascam 32, I was shocked at how bad it sounded. I know that better decks than that exist, I know they sound better. But as a tool for capturing and editing audio, r to r sucks.

I was never in to RTR and generally speaking analog tape gives me the willies. I think it stems mostly from having gone through the analog tape stage while doing sound editing/assisting back when all our film equipment was powered by mules.

Working on mag tape while making a movie was just awful (same with physical film). Pure drudgery trying to roll multiple tracks through the gangs of a syncronizer, putting teeny pieces in here and there, watching mags jump the gangs, having to start over. If there was ever an unalloyed good in the world, it was moving from analog to digital sound editing!

For me, RTR sounds like a chore that is just a bit too reminiscent of this. (Which is of course utterly subjective as someone may really like the activities involved with RTR just as I do with vinyl).