Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[Spocko]

They may be applying a lot of boost to correct issues in the woofer, causing it to run out of juice. The evidence of the red LED coming on though is hard to dispute. Unless you want to dispute my hearing.

In other words matching them to one of G’s purpose built subs like the $1,200 7350 would completely solve this problem (or a pair!)

 

[Spocko]

Hi

We may complain and discuss all we want about the price. This remains one stellar case where the price is inline with the performances.. This is what High End Audio should have been about ... Performances commensurate with price.

Makes you wonder how good their larger (and more expensive) models would be.

IMO this is “affordable” high end gear because it includes DAC/room correction/amp and speaker!

 

[Spocko]

View attachment 51814View attachment 51814

Yes, let's hope amir gets D&D , kii, maybe amphion and geithain.......geithain might have been the original point source pioneer......Genelec still have advantage with room eq installed over everything else.....these are too expensive for normal people though...but good to have reference....and maybe something consumer friendly someday

The big difference is it’s subwoofers which allow full bass management over 5.2 source - no other manufacturer does that.

 

[Spocko]

The measurements are very good, but I would never buy a self-powered and plastic speaker for $ 5,900

Thanks Amir.

Not plastic, but all aluminum

 

[Spocko]

It's all about the complete signal path. Building DSP into the speaker gives you lots of control over the crossover and frequency response. If there's a resonance in the cabinet, you can EQ it away. Then for all intents and purposes, it no longer exists. This might frustrate some purists, but it's a highly effective way of improving the quality of a speaker.

The reason the DSP in your AVR doesn't usually doesn't work is because we don't have extensive on and off axis anechoic data. For speakers. But with anechoic data such as that which Amir provides, all sorts of frequency response issues so long as directivity is in order. You cannot EQ directivity issues very well. You can EQ resonances. Which is why I personally always recommend speakers that have good directivity characteristics to enthusiasts willing to do some EQ.

And the room EQ/DSP is very location specific so technically it’s only room correction to benefit a small listening area whereas well designed speakers with near perfect dispersion patterns cannot be duplicated via DSP (yet?)

 

[hege]

In other words matching them to one of G’s purpose built subs like the $1,200 7350 would completely solve this problem (or a pair!)

Correct pairing for 8341 is 2x7360 or 1x7370 ($4000). See: https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors

 

[ctrl]

I assumed you were modeling using a piston in infinite half-space. Its far-field pressure is:

Thank you, your assumption was correct. Missed the fact that the formula refers to drivers in infinite baffle (half space).

Genelec S360A

Isn't this a bit high?
Harmonic distortion at 95 dB SPL at 1 m on axis > 5 kHz < 1.5 %

It is normal that compression drivers with wave-guide show increasing second order harmonic distortion at high frequencies.

Below 1.5% distortion (-36dB distortion) at such high frequencies is practically irrelevant.

An example to illustrate this. Let's assume a loudspeaker shows 10% THD at 7kHz.

If the THD consists only of second order harmonic distortions, this means that at 14kHz an additional signal with -20dB is produced.
If the THD consists only of third order harmonic distortions, this means that at 21kHz an additional signal with -20dB is produced.

Would assume in both cases (and all mixed forms) that the harmonic distortions will not be noticeable, at least when using music as a signal.

 

[pma]

I guess you'll find speaker intermodulations of 10% good as well, however -100dB of DAC would be damned. Really strange.

 

[BYRTT]

@rajapruk,

Sounds you missed Genelec 8341A SAM in CTA2034 standard 50dB scaled a beuty it is...

Having these valuable ASR speaker review thanks had gone warm on JBL 305P MKII cause its so low cost, its nothing like above beuty and never worthy in -/+ vertical sector but it can be EQ transfered to a fun look alike using the inserted filter curve below, a poor man real thing that roll off in lows 7th order at @48Hz which is a bit higher than the real thing that though is one order steeper.

Can see @bobbooo and @edechamps also has asked to the mic fix so in high resolution for a closer study here you have KH80 sample 1 included mic fix plus mic calibration and inckuded is a offset or lowered snapshot of before calibration in same Spinorama plot,, guess not variations is a problem for most educated or pro readers of graphs to get the general tendency of this and that review and also they used to look thru many varius scale numbers, but think when data is used for rating list and can mean 0,5 point will guess down the road it will be looked at.

 

[Costas EAR]

Let's take a look at 8341A's specs:

8341: ± 1.5 dB (45 Hz - 20 kHz)

Exactly.

From genelec more information:

https://www.genelec.com/8341a

So, we have a pice of perfect engineering, a small miracle, a nearfield monitor with outstanding measurements, a great choice for listening distance 1,5-1,8m, and ...oh my god, there is a huge gap at the first octave!

Is this for real?

And what about max spl? Oh, so terribly low even at the second octave? But is this possible????

Well, yes. Indeed. It is.

This fine piece of excellent engineering, is never meant to be used as a full range speaker, and it is stated so.

There is no meaning in high fidelity reproduction, if you have a huge gap at the first 2 octaves (20-80 Hz) which represents the 30% (or even more) of the music and pleasure of listening!

Of course it is meant to be used only with the proper subs for your room volume!

There is no question about that! Please...

All the big brains who designed this excellent monitor over there at genelec's labs, know that this is not a full range speaker and state this quite clearly with the provided specs!

Why do all of you try to determine how this speaker handles the whole frequency range and at what spl's?

I really cannot understand...

There is no meaning listening to this monitor without sub's! Not at all! Please, don't listen to these monitors without subs, you are doing it the wrong way!

As if you are listening music from just a tweeter! It's really that funny!


This small monitor is meant to be used only with subs, crossed at 80Hz.

Please, use some common sense...

I am quite sure that properly crossed at 80 Hz with the proper genelec subs for your listening room, this excellent monitor can truly reproduce at the expected listening distance the stated max spl's (110 dB's), which are more than enough for reference level monitoring, plus headroom.

Respect to genelec. They know better.

 

[stevenswall]

...Is never meant to be used as a full range speaker, and it is stated so.

You're right. Maybe one day they will have something that is a similar size that goes down to 20hz. I'd love a full range speaker like that, and then we'd have something that blows the Devialet Phantom Reactor out of the water.

 

[ctrl]

I guess you'll find speaker intermodulations of 10% good as well, however -100dB of DAC would be damned. Really strange.

The second-order harmonic distortion of compression drivers on wave guides or horns at high frequencies is almost exclusively due to thermodynamic effects in the air.

On the other hand, the higher-order harmonic distortions are usually very low at the frequency range under consideration (>5kHz). This also applies to IMD - especially when comparing the same tweeter without wave guide or dome tweeter.

Then there is an effect called distortion masking (hope the translation of the word makes sense). The masking of harmonic distortion is very pronounced at frequencies above 5kHz.

To stay with the example, at 7kHz HD2 is masked up to 20% at low sound pressure (60dB). At high sound pressure levels (e.g. 100dB) almost 100% second order harmonic distortion is still masked.

Higher order harmonic distortions at a fundamental frequency of 7kHz will simply not be perceived at all as long as you are not Batman.

For the Genelec S360A, the long term RMS is specified as 112dB. With a normal dome tweeter this long term sound pressure level is not achievable.

The second order harmonic distortion of compression drivers on wave guides is therefore accepted in order to make the absurdly high sound pressure levels possible.
The Genelec S360A may therefore show a HD2 of 10% at 112dB and 7kHz, because it is technically difficult to achieve better.

On the other hand, a DAC that has 10% IMD above 5kHz is simply a bad design, which makes a big difference to me.
Further I do not damn DACs, my mother has forbidden me

 

[tuga]

The second-order harmonic distortion of compression drivers on wave guides or horns at high frequencies is almost exclusively due to thermodynamic effects in the air.

On the other hand, the higher-order harmonic distortions are usually very low at the frequency range under consideration (>5kHz). This also applies to IMD - especially when comparing the same tweeter without wave guide or dome tweeter.

Then there is an effect called distortion masking (hope the translation of the word makes sense). The masking of harmonic distortion is very pronounced at frequencies above 5kHz.

To stay with the example, at 7kHz HD2 is masked up to 20% at low sound pressure (60dB). At high sound pressure levels (e.g. 100dB) almost 100% second order harmonic distortion is still masked.

Higher order harmonic distortions at a fundamental frequency of 7kHz will simply not be perceived at all as long as you are not Batman.

For the Genelec S360A, the long term RMS is specified as 112dB. With a normal dome tweeter this long term sound pressure level is not achievable.

The second order harmonic distortion of compression drivers on wave guides is therefore accepted in order to make the absurdly high sound pressure levels possible.
The Genelec S360A may therefore show a HD2 of 10% at 112dB and 7kHz, because it is technically difficult to achieve better.

On the other hand, a DAC that has 10% IMD above 5kHz is simply a bad design, which makes a big difference to me.
Further I do not damn DACs, my mother has forbidden me

This compression driver produces some HD2 of 2% at 100dB. Would it be higher if the unit had been measured mounted in a horn?

 

[ctrl]

This compression driver produces some HD2 of 2% at 100dB. Would it be higher if the unit had been measured mounted in a horn?

I could imagine that when the horn neck is long and narrow.
The horn would thus additionally amplify the thermodynamic effects - especially at very high sound pressures.

With short wave guides the effect should be less.

By the way, suppose that the horn was at the compression driver during the distortion measurement.

 

[tuga]

I could imagine that when the horn neck is long and narrow.
The horn would thus additionally amplify the thermodynamic effects - especially at very high sound pressures.

With short wave guides the effect should be less.

By the way, suppose that the horn was at the compression driver during the distortion measurement.

Indeed.

The distortion was measured with the Listen microphone placed 10 cm from the mouth of the horn. This produced the distortion curves shown in Figure 8.

 

[Lao Lu]

Apparently erroneously attributed to John Maynard Keynes.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/22/keynes-change-mind/

My favorite quote from Keynes is, “The fact that all things are possible is no excuse for thinking foolishly,“ from his book, The Econimic Consequences of the Peace, in which he essentially predicted World War II. He was a close friend of Bertrand Russell.

In his book Confessions of a Philosopher Bryan Magee (who knew Russell) quotes him from their first meeting: "I asked him who he regarded as the most intelligent person he had ever met (Russell was 87 at the time) he replied unhesitatingly, "Keynes"...."Every time I argued with Keynes I felt I was taking my life in my hands."

 

[whazzup]

@amirm I saw that you were able to test this and the Harbeth 30 some time ago. Would you be able to share what you thought how they sound relative to each other? Disregarding the volume differences, did you find other differences in terms of vocals, imaging and/or soundstage? It's just interesting to see one of the frontrunners in speaker tech against the venerable general...

 

[amirm]

I tested the Harbeth in far field and the Genelec in near field. So not the same thing. That said, if I were to bet what would sound good in a listening room, I would pick the Harbeth as it can handle a lot more power and is not limited by its amplification.

If you are not in a hurry, wait a bit until I test more hifi speakers. We have too small of a sample there. I have put in the order for a few Revel speakers for example and there are others coming.

 

[whazzup]

I tested the Harbeth in far field and the Genelec in near field. So not the same thing. That said, if I were to bet what would sound good in a listening room, I would pick the Harbeth as it can handle a lot more power and is not limited by its amplification.

If you are not in a hurry, wait a bit until I test more hifi speakers. We have too small of a sample there. I have put in the order for a few Revel speakers for example and there are others coming.

Yes.....I will so get the popcorn ready....

 

[thewas]

The biggest difference between the here measured Harbeth and Genelec would be the tonality, which is much darker at Harbeth, here are the predicted listener responses of both:

(plots generated by @edechamps Loudspeaker Explorer)

Would be interesting to see which tonality is preferred depending on listening distance, room reverberation, recording and listeners previous habituation.