SMSL M500 DAC and HP Amp Review

[jani80k]

My MQA playback is sent straight from the PC to the SMSL M500 without any processing. The audio player uses three types: Foober2000, TuneBrowser and Audirvana.
Now I tested according to your instructions, and when I moved the playback position in the middle of the playback, all the audio players had the same symptoms as you.
However, if you play from the beginning of the song, Foober2000 will operate most stably.
It seems that there are still many problems in playing MQA.
Sorry, my English may be a bit strange.

@amirm Can you say whether this is behaviour is normal in DACs which support MQA playback?

 

[Toku]

MQA is a system that has just debuted. It is impossible to expect perfect operation from the beginning. Various problems will appear in the future!
When the CD player debuted, it took three years for the operation to stabilize.
Companies such as Sony, ONKYO, and Pioneer also struggled with product development.

 

[jani80k]

MQA is a system that has just debuted. It is impossible to expect perfect operation from the beginning. Various problems will appear in the future!
When the CD player debuted, it took three years for the operation to stabilize.
Companies such as Sony, ONKYO, and Pioneer also struggled with product development.

I am not sure if this has to do with MQA. I think it is the synch delay during frequency changes due to cheaper parts used. Mytek Brooklyn doesnt suffer from this apparently.

 

[Xyrium]

I am not sure if this has to do with MQA. I think it is the synch delay during frequency changes due to cheaper parts used. Mytek Brooklyn doesnt suffer from this apparently.

Seems the Brooklyn has its own MQA probs (among other issues), no?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-of-mytek-brooklyn-dac.1828/page-3#post-47017

 

[foxxx0]

Try USB, it always the best unless you have noise issue

Yeah well, that was the whole point of my explanation. I do have USB noise issues and that's why I'm using optical spdif.
And actually for my use case (24bit, 44.1kHz) I highly doubt it will make any measurable difference between USB and optical spdif, with a higher probability of introducing more noise issues in the USB connection.

If I recall correctly, amir even switched from USB to optical spdif for some DACs when testing them for the very same reason (noise issues).

 

[Shoaibexpert]

MQA is a system that has just debuted. It is impossible to expect perfect operation from the beginning. Various problems will appear in the future!
When the CD player debuted, it took three years for the operation to stabilize.
Companies such as Sony, ONKYO, and Pioneer also struggled with product development.

why shouldn't it work great from day 1. MQA Corp wouldn't have given SMSL the license to provide MQA decoding in their products unless it was functioning properly.

my guess is that somewhere in your audio data chain something causing this to happen. I play Tidal in Bit Perfect mode with direct pass through MQA and I have never heard a click between changing frequencies. Did you upgrade to the latest 1.08 driver?

Also, unless you are playing local files in your HDD...why would you play Tidal stream via Foobar it any other player? Asking coz many people use Foobar and don't know if as any benefits.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

I wonder if anyone has changed from M500 to D90 or DX7Pro and how did that go SQ wise? Asking coz of the hype around D90 being so state of the art and all...

 

[jani80k]

It has nothing to do with MQA. It also cracks when changing frequencies in PCM. It's a very minor cracking but it's there.

 

[aurum]

Hi, am seriously considering this as an external DAC to the Bluesound Node 2i streamer in a loudspeaker setup (not headphones). Do you think it will make a substantial difference compared to the internal DAC in the Node 2i, or is this just upgradeitis?

Here's what I know doesn't make a substantial difference to my ears - the Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus vs the internal Node 2i DAC. I set it up so that I could switch between both on the fly while listening to the same song, and I struggled to even hear a difference, let alone make a value judgement on which one I like better.

I looked at the measurements (the three are in different SINAD buckets with the Node 2i at the bottom), but since I couldnt hear the difference between the two I have, I have to ask, is there likely to be a substantial difference between the M500 and the other two?

Maybe its my chain of components that's unable to resolve the differences - the source is Roon on a QNAP NAS -- > Node 2i --> DacMagic Plus (when I use it) --> Rega Elex-R amp --> Dynaudio Contour S1.4 standmounts.

Thanks in advance

 

[SECA_alan]

I'm sorry I couldn't say for sure. However, I was very happy when I previously changed from a DACmagic to an M2Tech Young. The Young has recently gone in favour of the M-500 which I prefer for several sound preference reasons.

I'd suggest trying it at least, there is always an option to return it.

 

[BDWoody]

Hi, am seriously considering this as an external DAC to the Bluesound Node 2i streamer in a loudspeaker setup (not headphones). Do you think it will make a substantial difference compared to the internal DAC in the Node 2i, or is this just upgradeitis?

Here's what I know doesn't make a substantial difference to my ears - the Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus vs the internal Node 2i DAC. I set it up so that I could switch between both on the fly while listening to the same song, and I struggled to even hear a difference, let alone make a value judgement on which one I like better.

I looked at the measurements (the three are in different SINAD buckets with the Node 2i at the bottom), but since I couldnt hear the difference between the two I have, I have to ask, is there likely to be a substantial difference between the M500 and the other two?

Maybe its my chain of components that's unable to resolve the differences - the source is Roon on a QNAP NAS -- > Node 2i --> DacMagic Plus (when I use it) --> Rega Elex-R amp --> Dynaudio Contour S1.4 standmounts.

Thanks in advance

You should trust what your ears told you...

The truth is, if one goes through a bit of work to try to control the listening process, differences between DAC's that aren't broken by deign are virtually impossible to reliably identify....
Those who claim to hear obvious differences are generally not doing anything other than giving in to their own biases.

The standard for comparing DAC's would be output level matched by multimeter, and a double blind testing process, where neither you nor your helper doing the switching knows what is playing...

So far, despite numerous $$$ offers to those who claim to hear differences, no one has stepped up to claim the prize.

 

[Tony333]

So, basically I bought M500 to hear the difference between MQA and hirez, and of course listen Tidal. While in one review I read about comparing different audio output MQA options with the original one (DXD). And there wasn't much difference between software MQA render or hardware MQA render (decoder).
Additionally I wanted to have in my DAC collection something not expensive with Sabre ES9038PRO inside.
From the box the sound is very airy, as if the sounds lack physicality, but after burning for some days all is OK.
Also I have RME ADI-2 PRO (no FS) and it took a while to get used to the sound of AK4490. I think it's strange because it's the only one I've had to get used to. I listened Sabre for many years before AK4490.
The M500 maybe not reveal the full potential of the DAC chip as opposed to the RME, but I like the sound of Sabre. Especially with SP200.

 

[aurum]

I'm sorry I couldn't say for sure. However, I was very happy when I previously changed from a DACmagic to an M2Tech Young. The Young has recently gone in favour of the M-500 which I prefer for several sound preference reasons.

I'd suggest trying it at least, there is always an option to return it.

Thanks. I would have tried if I could. Unfortunately, this particular model is not available on Amazon in India. I planned to pick it up on Amazon in the US next week. While in the US, I have no reference to compare it to. So I'm not in a position to take a call based on my ears.

 

[aurum]

You should trust what your ears told you...

The truth is, if one goes through a bit of work to try to control the listening process, differences between DAC's that aren't broken by deign are virtually impossible to reliably identify....
Those who claim to hear obvious differences are generally not doing anything other than giving in to their own biases.

The standard for comparing DAC's would be output level matched by multimeter, and a double blind testing process, where neither you nor your helper doing the switching knows what is playing...

So far, despite numerous $$$ offers to those who claim to hear differences, no one has stepped up to claim the prize.

Thanks. I guess this is what I'm struggling with. If I just listen to the M500 in isolation, it might sound great. I'll have no way of reliably comparing it, unless it is in my chain of components at home. Unfortunately, this particular model isnt available here to try. Thats why I'm taking the opinion of others' ears.

 

[dieselmilk]

Just picked one of these up. Using it with Pixel 3XL USBC-B cord, Emotiva XPA200 Amp and Ascend Acoustics Sierra RAAL Towers, RCA out. Highly, highly impressed.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

So, basically I bought M500 to hear the difference between MQA and hirez, and of course listen Tidal. While in one review I read about comparing different audio output MQA options with the original one (DXD). And there wasn't much difference between software MQA render or hardware MQA render (decoder).
Additionally I wanted to have in my DAC collection something not expensive with Sabre ES9038PRO inside.
From the box the sound is very airy, as if the sounds lack physicality, but after burning for some days all is OK.
Also I have RME ADI-2 PRO (no FS) and it took a while to get used to the sound of AK4490. I think it's strange because it's the only one I've had to get used to. I listened Sabre for many years before AK4490.
The M500 maybe not reveal the full potential of the DAC chip as opposed to the RME, but I like the sound of Sabre. Especially with SP200.

I have the M500 and was thinking of spending much more to get the ADI-2. I quite like the M500 but as with all audio rabbit holes...the praise for ADI2 got me thinking what am I missing. How's your experience so far between the two. How would you describe the differences and finally your preference? Thanks

 

[Shoaibexpert]

So, basically I bought M500 to hear the difference between MQA and hirez, and of course listen Tidal. While in one review I read about comparing different audio output MQA options with the original one (DXD). And there wasn't much difference between software MQA render or hardware MQA render (decoder).
Additionally I wanted to have in my DAC collection something not expensive with Sabre ES9038PRO inside.
From the box the sound is very airy, as if the sounds lack physicality, but after burning for some days all is OK.
Also I have RME ADI-2 PRO (no FS) and it took a while to get used to the sound of AK4490. I think it's strange because it's the only one I've had to get used to. I listened Sabre for many years before AK4490.
The M500 maybe not reveal the full potential of the DAC chip as opposed to the RME, but I like the sound of Sabre. Especially with SP200.

Btw better be careful... most people on this forum believe ALL similar measuring DACs sound EXACTLY the same

 

[dieselmilk]

So, basically I bought M500 to hear the difference between MQA and hirez, and of course listen Tidal. While in one review I read about comparing different audio output MQA options with the original one (DXD). And there wasn't much difference between software MQA render or hardware MQA render (decoder).
Additionally I wanted to have in my DAC collection something not expensive with Sabre ES9038PRO inside.
From the box the sound is very airy, as if the sounds lack physicality, but after burning for some days all is OK.
Also I have RME ADI-2 PRO (no FS) and it took a while to get used to the sound of AK4490. I think it's strange because it's the only one I've had to get used to. I listened Sabre for many years before AK4490.
The M500 maybe not reveal the full potential of the DAC chip as opposed to the RME, but I like the sound of Sabre. Especially with SP200.

Interestingly after A-B-ing physical CDs and their Tidal counterparts, the Tidal/M500 and CDs sounded identical to me. I also A-B some physical CDs and their Master counterparts from Tidal and liked the sound better from Tidal. I personally could not justify spending anything additional because on my system there is no difference when the material is the same on CD and Tidal.

 

[Tony333]

I found one problem. I've used M500 with notebook (Windows 10). But today I had to use MacBook Pro and I've tested all audio formats and hear clicks on DSD256 (Audirvana+ or Jriver). And there is no difference for DSD256 file or Upsamling (in Audirvana+) to DSD256.
Also compare CD and Tidal on some tracks and didn't hear any difference. There is some same albums in Tidal (master and hifi) between witch I can hear difference. I have some same tracks, the first is 24/384 (original DXD), the second is MQA (24/384 inside) and between them I don't hear difference. (but size of first is 700Mb, the second 100 Mb)
The ears are no longer the same like 10-15 years ago!!!
When I started listening to music, using my first Hi-Fi headphones many years ago, I could hear 20Hz-20kHz. But now I can hear only 20Hz-15kHz with normal volume...
Maximum effect of the USB cable on the sound I heard with Chord Mojo (it was QED Reference). With RME ADI-2 PRO I don't hear changing of USB cables. Although I I have heard the different USB cables with iFi iDSD especially with iFi dual headed cable and iFi iUSB 3.0 (now I don't hear iUSB influence with ADI-2, M500, Hugo 2) But my notebook (acer, windows 10) has much power noise unlike MacBook Pro (2015). I can hear it with OPPO HA-2 SE (it charges when connected). But with different USB cables, HA-2 has different noise (QED Reference 0,6 m - much noise, Inakustik Exzellenz 1.0m - much noise, WireWorld Starlight 8 - a little bit noise).
Also at the time I noticed a little problem with MacBook USB 3.0 drivers. I had Mojo with some problems, it played DSD 128, 256 with clicks (I don't remember revisions of OS X). MacBook Air (old MacOS) - no clicks, but with newer versions with clicks. Then I bought MacBook Pro and again - I hear clicks. So I installed windows 10 on it and lo and behold - no clicks!!!
Another funny case. I was interested, is USB cable can influence with external HDD and I use QED USB Cable with it. All test with MacBook Pro (2015). The same files on the external disk and inside. MacOS - I hear difference, Windows - I don't hear difference.

 

[bequietjk]

I ordered an M500 to try out in waiting before the soncoz sgd1 becomes available. So far, i can say the M500 sounds really great at 44.1 and 96k. Music seems to be delivered just as intended and the THX 789 is amplifying the signal wonderfully.

Controls are a little funky, volume knob works well enough though maybe a little cheap feeling. Overall, good experience with it.