Review and Measurements of SMSL SP200 THX HP Amp

[anmpr1]

I come back to the thread and see a slew of folks thinking this is some sort of pre production model that can’t be bought? How fast do you folks imagine the production model can be changed in order to fool people?

No one is saying that the company is trying to fool people. Again, if you can't buy one, it's sort of a moot thing. If you can, then it's not a problem.

 

[Tks]

No one is saying that the company is trying to fool people. Again, if you can't buy one, it's sort of a moot thing. If you can, then it's not a problem.

It's why I elaborate later on, that I say as such, because that's the only logical thing people can be implying when the bring up the topic/concern. Why else would people talk about golden samples, and pre production models, and a bit put off that they're not currently for sale while a review is up currently? It was simply my summation of the tone of a few posts is all. Perhaps I'm 100% wrong, I'm not seeing about what though. Sorry if I am missing something obvious.

 

[anmpr1]

It's why I elaborate later on, that I say as such, because that's the only logical thing people can be implying when the bring up the topic/concern.

It's not just this company. The Okto DAC 8 is pre production, too. I get what these companies are trying to do. They are getting ready to introduce essentially SOA products into the marketplace, and want to get the word out. I have nothing against that. Certainly an Okto DAC you have to wait for is better than a twice the price PS DAC you can get tomorrow.

And I get what Amir is trying to do, showing us what is both out there and what is likely going to be out sometime in the future. I'm just thinking that products no longer sold (Oppo UDS-25), or gear you can't buy yet ought to be so indicated on the chart. I think it would put things in better perspective. But it's just my opinion.

For instance, as far as I know, Stereophile will only review things you can buy. The erstwhile Audio Critic was a much better review, but Aczel was always touting stuff you couldn't get, anywhere. (Mitch Cotter's full blown preamp that never made it to production; one-off phono cartridges; homemade speakers and so forth). Sure, it's good to know what can be done experimentally, and what is in the pipeline, but... again, if you can't buy what you are looking for it doesn't do you much good.

 

[amirm]

The lighting boss man, the lighting. It’s as if you have these devices in an interrogation room with some incandescent light bulb above the as the only source. Anything black loses detail. Easiest solution is turn the light on in the room, and use a piece of paper or anything white, as th backdrop. Otherwise the images are great focal length-wise. Enjoy me some of that bokeh.

There are four light sources in that image. A wall of windows 20+ feet high behind me provides general illumination (though this time of year is not as good as it is in summer). Room lights are on washing the background and some on the foreground. The two main sources of light are a wide LED light bar with adjustable hue and brightness. And a side light providing side and overall illumination.

Where possible, I try to make sure the LEDs, LCDs, OLEDs, etc. on the display show up as well and are not blown. Or too faded. The shiny panther with its whites is hell on dynamic range as well. I suggest trying a shot like that to realize it is not at all trivial to take a single shot and make it work. Professional shots you see are often composites to capture the display, etc.

My lab is in a loft, fully visible to the rest of the house (sits on top of our open floor plan living room). No way I am sticking fabrics and such on the walls. As it is, the countless boxes and gear everywhere has taken away from the look of the place. And at any rate, I don't see how putting a white background helps with the foreground of these black objects.

I also balance the aesthetics versus information. Don't want to post washed out pictures where you see detail in blacks but the images don't look nice. So where possible I opt for contrast which if your display cannot match, will block blacks and result in no detail.

Importantly, there is no way to predict what you all see on your monitors as your calibration is not the same as one. On my pro monitor for example, I see a lot more detail than I see on my laptop.

From my reviews and measures to photography, I am setup for high throughput. I have boxes and boxes of gear waiting to review. There is stuff that is more than a year old that I have not yet reviewed. I have been a photographer for nearly 40 years. While not specializing in product photography, I can get beautiful pictures you could hang on the wall. But is this what you want me to spend my time on???

 

[amirm]

Looks like a great product from SMSL again, that will produce many headaches for more..."traditional" audiophile companies...ahem. @amirm , are you planning to retest a retail version, could this be a little bit of a "golden sample" situation, or are we not considering that?

I am not planning a re-test since I have so much other gear to test. THX requires certification for these products including measurements like I perform. So don't see much possibility of them building something that is different in ballpark than what I have tested.

I do know that both Monoprice and SMSL wanted to see my measurements to see if any final tuning is necessary. So there may be very slight changes in production. If someone is really doubtful here, you can send one to me to test.

 

[mkawa]

from the rest of us, put your phone on a mini tripod, use the night vision filter (eg on a pixel) and post the result. we don't care.

 

[Tks]

There are four light sources in that image. A wall of windows 20+ feet high behind me provides general illumination (though this time of year is not as good as it is in summer). Room lights are on washing the background and some on the foreground. The two main sources of light are a wide LED light bar with adjustable hue and brightness. And a side light providing side and overall illumination.

Where possible, I try to make sure the LEDs, LCDs, OLEDs, etc. on the display show up as well and are not blown. Or too faded. The shiny panther with its whites is hell on dynamic range as well. I suggest trying a shot like that to realize it is not at all trivial to take a single shot and make it work. Professional shots you see are often composites to capture the display, etc.

My lab is in a loft, fully visible to the rest of the house (sits on top of our open floor plan living room). No way I am sticking fabrics and such on the walls. As it is, the countless boxes and gear everywhere has taken away from the look of the place. And at any rate, I don't see how putting a white background helps with the foreground of these black objects.

I also balance the aesthetics versus information. Don't want to post washed out pictures where you see detail in blacks but the images don't look nice. So where possible I opt for contrast which if your display cannot match, will block blacks and result in no detail.

Importantly, there is no way to predict what you all see on your monitors as your calibration is not the same as one. On my pro monitor for example, I see a lot more detail than I see on my laptop.

From my reviews and measures to photography, I am setup for high throughput. I have boxes and boxes of gear waiting to review. There is stuff that is more than a year old that I have not yet reviewed. I have been a photographer for nearly 40 years. While not specializing in product photography, I can get beautiful pictures you could hang on the wall. But is this what you want me to spend my time on???

If it were up to me, I wouldn't mind even if you didnt' take any pictures at all tbh. I'm just trying to summarize what possible concerns there could be.

Though one problem is universal that you can't avoid especially with this image - and this will always be a problem if you decide to post images. The amount of compression you're using (or the forum itself is post-processing) is far too high. The compression artifacts are clearly visible on even 1080p screens, let alone anything like 1440p or 4K that's somewhat commonplace. You're images are fine for me, and I understand the issues with getting a device with the display going properly (more like time waste trying to get it right without compositing). But this image compression amount basically invalidates nearly any effort you take to catch the shot.

 

[amirm]

The amount of compression you're using (or the forum itself is post-processing) is far too high.

That is very much on purpose. I need to keep page load times low and at any rate, my server is cloud SSD based and it costs me money to increase it in size. Where possible, I target 50 Kbytes and lower. I spend good bit of time optimizing this, balancing file size against compression artifacts.

 

[mkawa]

people forget that it costs real money to run a webforum, especially when its purpose is to post large images of graphs.

 

[GrimSurfer]

I don't come here for the photography, just as I don't renew my NatGeo subscription because of its insightful reviews of audio equipment.

@amirm - You're doing a fine job on the things that really count. Keep it up; you're making a difference.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I come back to the thread and see a slew of folks thinking this is some sort of pre production model that can’t be bought? How fast do you folks imagine the production model can be changed in order to fool people? Made worse by that fact THX AAA parts take forever to seemingly get out the door for anyone, so any changes will definitely not be possible if SMSL was trying to pull a fast one which the tone of what some of you people are saying, is implying.

Also think a bit rationally folks. Why would they do this? As bad as the division between subjectivists vs objectivists is, I doubt either side would ever forgive misgivings knowingly from a company. They would be burned for good in many places for pulling a “golden sample” stunt.

Also, this whole theory of binning(a practice where companies will go through parts to find the top performers and sell them at a premium or something) is going away faster and faster by the year. The sorts of tolerances for solid state devices doesn’t allow this sort of headroom between devices to exist on the level some of you may imagine. Any differences someone else may measure (more times than not by a heavy margin) will be due to test to test variance if any differences are present at all.

As for @ohtoulouz

I sometimes get a better listening experience seeing the spectral analyzer on my RME DAC. This question can only be answered by you, as the performance metrics would deem both devices to be at vanishingly low levels of distortion and noise (though the amp section isn’t the literal best on the Sabaj D5, I simply couldn’t hear a difference when I tested it). If you need insane enough power to blow some drivers, then sure adding one of these amps with the Sabaj will toss you into verified inaudible territory of distortion. And also if you like to placebo yourself into things, I suppose you will have an enhanced experience resting easy you have one of the best amps and DACs ever tested in your home.

But for a general opinion barring al I’ve said. I doubt it would enhance your listening experience if you listen at moderate levels.

Ok. Not to say you are incorrect or anything. Just to point out something. All parts of these thx modules(788 789 887 888) are using just off the shelf parts. There shall be no shortage whatsoever. The idea of the thx(at least I think so) is good layout and good circuit design. It's not that hard to get to this level of performance using off the shelf parts. It only required some level of know how and dedication to get things right. Being said, i don't see any reason for production model(if this isn't) to be any worse than this.

 

[DownUnderGazza]

@SMSL-Mandy, any chance this wonderful product could be tweaked and released as a low power loudspeaker amp?
This would be fantastic for high efficiency mid-high speakers, horn compression drivers and tweeters.
As I only active-amp speakers driven by DSP crossovers, I’m on the lookout for just something like this.
10wrms into 8ohms, 20wrms into 4ohms would be ideal, but half that would still be a great option.
Just my 2c

 

[JohnYang1997]

@SMSL-Mandy, any chance this wonderful product could be tweaked and released as a low power loudspeaker amp?
This would be fantastic for high efficiency mid-high speakers, horn compression drivers and tweeters.
As I only active-amp speakers driven by DSP crossovers, I’m on the lookout for just something like this.
10wrms into 8ohms, 20wrms into 4ohms would be ideal, but half that would still be a great option.
Just my 2c

No chance for 10W(there is no watts rms btw). However if you want 1-2W there is a chance.

 

[DownUnderGazza]

No chance for 10W(there is no watts rms btw). However if you want 1-2W there is a chance.

It puts out a massive 2.9w into 33ohms... hence my interest

 

[JohnYang1997]

The reason why speaker amplifiers are expensive is because the heatsinking and transformer along with the shipping cost due to the weight. Alternatively, you can try modules series from neurochrome.

 

[ZeDestructor]

The reason why speaker amplifiers are expensive is because the heatsinking and transformer along with the shipping cost due to the weight. Alternatively, you can try modules series from neurochrome.

Class D amps are a huge help in that regard. It would be interesting to see a small, low-power class D - around 20W ish for high-efficiency drivers like tweeter, no?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Class D amps are a huge help in that regard. It would be interesting to see a small, low-power class D - around 20W ish for high-efficiency drivers like tweeter, no?

Performance would suffer tho. Good class D amps are really expensive.

 

[Ratatoskr]

I don't come here for the photography, just as I don't renew my NatGeo subscription because of its insightful reviews of audio equipment.

@amirm - You're doing a fine job on the things that really count. Keep it up; you're making a difference.

I appreciate the photos the reviews would not be the same without them. Remember good photos are essential for a forum they attrack new visitors and keep the page views up. Amir is doing a great job with them keep it up please.

 

[ZeDestructor]

Performance would suffer tho. Good class D amps are really expensive.

Isn't that in large part due to the low production volume combined with the relatively high R&D cost? I mean, if you look at the pro audio world, it's basically all class D when it comes to power amps. I imagine that if a company with the sort of volume as, say, Behringer went into it, we could see a a range of very competent power amps ranging from 50W to 500W for much lower prices that the hypex, ICEpower or Purifi.

 

[CerealKiller]

Excellent! Another top Tier option.

I've been wanting to get a pair of t50rp Argons and try them for a wille now and was afraid that jds Atom (what im curently rocking) was just not enough. Those are notoriusly hard to drive. So 789 and balanced was the comsidered option, now This might be the amp i was waiting for.

This data shows that SP 200 might be a good alternative to drops 789 and monoprices 887 for really power hungry or the hardest to drive headphones without going balanced, and a good side amp for those who already own jds labs Atom like myself.

If i buy a Fostex t50rp mods like argons, I didn't want to ad the expense of balanced conversión and balanced cables to those but was thinking on doing so and also getting a 789 since it was formelrly the price/performance/power champ. And so Manny have said argons should be driven with excesive headroom, emotiva a-100 8 wats per channel like headroom.

So a quick comparison:
@50 ohm
789 makes about 3,5 watt balanced and 0,9 watt unbalanced
sp200 makes about 2.1 watt unblanaced,
Atom makes about 1 watt unbalanced (linear interpolation from Amirm data since there is no 50 ohm load test)

So smsls amp gives the most power at 50 ohm without going the balanced way and its cheaper than drops and monoporices oferings.

Atom behaves better than sp200 at low Volumes so its better suited for sensitive iems.

Also atom Is More powerful at @33 ohms than 789 but with higer distortion
Atom 250mW
789 150mW

Atom can be used as a good clean preamp for controling powered monitors, as my current setup Is.

So...
Would really like to hear other who own modhouse Argons and how are you guys powering them. Will 2 wats be enough ? Should i go the 789 + balanced way?

And Amirm, as always, thank you for your awsome work.
=)

PS, someone pleeeeeaaaase lend an emotiva a100 to Amirm for testing. That would be some very interesting review